DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????

Wow.. I put my 02 cents in this morning come back to check in and the post is gone and all hell has broken loose.

Ok, Teach... You asked.

Mike Janis is one of the best highly respected people in the industry. He does a great job at how he runs his business. He's an all around great guy and has excellent integrity. I will continue to support him the Viking events and the N.U.T.S. and will do what ever it takes to defend personal attacks towards him.

I rarely go out on a limb to stick up for people unless I know them personally and have some sort of relationship weather it is on a player basis or professional basis. I try to get along with everyone. I did not mean to challenge you in the post that was deleted... sorry that I didn't get a chance to respond to that one. I of all people DO understand some of what you say. What bothers me, is the tone that you carry in writing your posts. A good deal of them can be very insulting for no apparent reason. And what perplexes me more than anything is that I have heard from so many people that I trust and know personally that you really are a great guy!
I just don't get it. I don't understand why you would want to alienate someone like Mike Janis.

I do understand that you have a very successful establishment and that you know what works for you. I wish you well, and I wish the continued success of the Viking events.

Eydie
 
DaveK said:
She meant to say what she said, and it is an intentional play on "I resent that". It's old, but handy.

Substituting 'resemble' for 'resent' kinda reverses the meaning, which is where the humor comes from (often it is self deprecating humour). The really funny thing is, when one has to explain it, there is no humour left ...

Dave
Click to expand...

Even if it is true that in this instance it was meant simply as a comical play on words the fact remains that many people have used the exact same line in situations where it simply does not fit. There is one instance where "I resent that remark" has been used on this message board, this thread. There are 23 threads where "I resemble that remark" has been used including this thread and in many of the instances of those 23 times it simply does not fit. Some times it is clear that it could be a quip meant to show a kinship to the statement but other times it is really obvious that the people mean "resent" as they truely dislike the statement and find it offensive and not "resemble" where they are alluding to a connection in an effort to be a humorous offshoot of a more commonly used statement that seems anything but in all honesty.
 
MikeJanis said:
1st let me ay that I deleted the post because I was about to go off on Teacherman for the BS he was posting. I know better than to do that in a public forum so I choose to delete my original post. Teacherman stated I lied and was a huckster. As most of you know that's not true. He also was extremely misleading in his posts when he tried to qoute me. He was saying I said things that I didn't say. I tried be democratic with him but it didn't work. He's just an argumentative kind of guy so I decided to end it.

Now regarding your post. To start with your numbers are not correct. As a Td I have never taken 20% of any player auction and the players know that. You probably know why I can't state any percentages. If you don't, I suggest you read historic posts about Calcutta's or Player Auctions.
The tour fees range in price by events but $1,500 is not correct either.

As far as costs go to the room owners everything is up front. We state everything perfectly clear in our format. Teacherman was trying to start or get out of something by bringing that up. He mentioned it only after I told him I would pay him $500 in pure profit for holding an event in his location. He seemed so stuck on tournaments being a bad idea and a risk for pool rooms and I was just trying to show him I would guarantee him a profit of $500. That $500 was not just in more sales but a true profit as compared to his average for a particular weekend over a 3 year period. You state " and guarantee $500 over the normal profit of a weekend " the way you state this is not correct. It's over a particular given weekend. (example: August 2-3 is the tournament date. We look at the numbers from those dates from the previous 3 years during the time periods stated and come up with the average sales profit based on product costs and sales.) It's a simple #, if the agerage sales are $1,000 and product cost is only 35% then the gross frofit would be $650. And like I stated to Teacherman, I will guarantee that he does an additional $500 in profits during the same time frames that I am there for the event. I told him I would guarantee it and I would have. If he didn't do enough sales to make the additional $500 profit then I would pay him the difference wether it was $300, $500 or more. But I simply stated to him that I would guarantee him $500 more in profit over that particular time fram than he had averaged over the last 3 years. Doesn't seem dificult to understand to me.

You said " You guarantee $500 over profit for Teacherman over a normal weekend for simply $1000 added. And if your guarantee doesn't come true? $2000 fine? What are you guaranteeing with?"

It is guaranteed with cash at the time of the event. When we do the #'s it will be self evident if he made the extra $500. If he didn't, I will make up the difference to him. And agin, that's $500 profit over what the average was.
No need for a fine or anything this isn't a bet.

Also, when I asked Teacherman his Liquor costs I also suggested that we move this to either a PM, email or phone conversation. I did not want him to divulge confidential information in a public forum because I would never do that either.

In addition, I didn't even ask Teacherman for $1,000 added. After he propositioned me I told him I would agree to guarantee that he makes $500 in profit as given by the average. Heck, I get to keep all the product so i was gonna add the $1,000 to the event.

Watchez, you seem to be making the same mistakes Teacherman was by not going back and using actual quotes. Please make sure to do this in the future. It save a lot of heartaches for everyone.

Mj
Click to expand...


I gave my opinion on pool room tournaments and I think for the most part they are losers. But why do you continue to keep up this thread? You don't need to defend yourself. People have different opinions and thats that. It's not good to play this, "Try to get in the last word thing". You made your point.
 
Bob Romano said:
I of all people DO understand some of what you say. What bothers me, is the tone that you carry in writing your posts. A good deal of them can be very insulting for no apparent reason. And what perplexes me more than anything is that I have heard from so many people that I trust and know personally that you really are a great guy!
I just don't get it.
Eydie
Click to expand...

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, a number of people who know Teacherman in person say he is a really nice guy and runs a nice establishment, yet, when he writes on here it is a totally different personality than the one that describes how he is in person. The only thing I can think of is he gets some kind of kick out of degrading people on here and messing with their heads and now he can't stop himself. Obviously, you can't reason with him when he is in his mode because he seems to be relentless in his attacks once he starts. Go figure, I guess he gets his jollies from running nice people down.

Wayne
 
Teacherman said:
Can I ask again?

If 80 players pay $40 to play in a tournament ($3200) and $1000 is added totalling $4200, but you take $1000 for your fee, is there really added money?

:D :D :D :D

I would love to hear the answer.

This is very important to many lurkers. I'm on my high for PM's in one day. They wanted me to ask.

Eydie

What's up? Got any input?
Click to expand...


Suddenly you're worried about the players? :confused:
That's a laugh!
Yesterday you couldn't show enough disdain for pool players.
Today you want to be sure they aren't being ripped off.

Teacherman,
Seems Mike runs a fairly popular tour.
If you weren't interested, you could have just NOT POSTED.
Instead, you jump on here and immediately try and discredit him.

"That's all I have to say about thaaat" - Forest Gump
 
Teacherman said:
Really. I've asked at least 3 times where his fee comes from and how much is it.

His silence on the issue is not exactly "up front".
Click to expand...

Basically because his fee is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

Whether or not you make your money that weekend is all you should be concerned about, dumbass!
 
Teacherman said:
First, the pro's or their sponsors didn't post and ad here for pool room owners to respond to. I do no business with them.
:confused:
Second, If I'm the one paying Mike's fee, I think I should know what it is.
Bullshit! You don't ask McDonalds how much they make off the Quarter Pounder

Third, I think it's a worthy lesson for all viewing here to know how these events work and where their money goes and where the winnings come from.
If you know, then why keep asking?

Fourth,it's hard for me to understand a TD asking for rooms and players yet trying to keep them in the dark.
Do you really think anyone should try and discuss details of a business agreement over an internet forum?

Fifth, you must be a relative rookie to the pool world. Let me give you a hint. Next time you go to a tournament, add up the entry fees, added money, calcutta money, etc etc and compare it to the actual pay outs. You might be surprised what goes on.
Do you expect people to work for nothing? Is your's the only valuable time?
You sure seem to think so.

He ran the ad, I responded.
Yes, with an unwarranted attack (How nice of you)

Don't ask if you can't handle the answer.
Click to expand...
Do you really envision yourself as the great crusader here?
 
People enjoy posting on pool-related discussion forums for a variety of reasons. For me, I happen to like being kept up to date on the pool happenings around the world. It's interesting to read about various events, world-class players, action reports, products in the marketplace, and tournament updates. :)

I've only been posting for a couple of years, but my experience has led me to believe that there are some who seem to get a kick out of belittling others, for whatever reason.

After being personally attacked myself, I came to the conclusion that, much like the real world today, there is a small minority who make every effort to create havoc. When confronted, the traditional retorts from the offenders are "You have a reading comprehension problem," "You're a hypocrite," and then, when all else fails, like magic, a first-time poster or "troll" will come out of the woodwork, unidentified crackpots who actually seem to enjoy ruining the posting experience for all others.

The advice given by seasoned posters is to ignore them. This may be helpful to some. However, when a person devotes their whole life to the sport, whether it is in the form of a tour director, a player, pool fan, or an industry member, the words are hurtful. Oftentimes, these falsities are created by the offenders for pure entertainment. Unfortunately, sometimes it will cause the "victim" to quit posting.

I personally have attended tournaments run by Mike Janis on the Viking Tour tournament trail. He, like many of us here on AzBilliards Discussion Forum, has a great deal of passion for the game and has devoted his life to making things happen for folks just like me and mine. In my experience, each Viking event runs smooth as butter, and I have NEVER seen anything which would make me question his integrity and honesty.

I've seen some great posters leave the Internet for good because of the negative back-and-forth colloquy which targets them personally, much like what exists right here in this thread. I could elaborate more, but at the risk of feeding the flame, I will just end this post in hopes that Mike Janis will realize that there are some posters who simply enjoy keeping the flame going, no matter what you post or how you respond.

JAM
 
JAM said:
People enjoy posting on pool-related discussion forums for a variety of reasons. For me, I happen to like being kept up to date on the pool happenings around the world. It's interesting to read about various events, world-class players, action reports, products in the marketplace, and tournament updates. :)

I've only been posting for a couple of years, but my experience has led me to believe that there are some who seem to get a kick out of belittling others, for whatever reason.

After being personally attacked myself, I came to the conclusion that, much like the real world today, there is a small minority who make every effort to create havoc. When confronted, the traditional retorts from the offenders are "You have a reading comprehension problem," "You're a hypocrite," and then, when all else fails, like magic, a first-time poster or "troll" will come out of the woodwork, unidentified crackpots who actually seem to enjoy ruining the posting experience for all others.

The advice given by seasoned posters is to ignore them. This may be helpful to some. However, when a person devotes their whole life to the sport, whether it is in the form of a tour director, a player, pool fan, or an industry member, the words are hurtful. Oftentimes, these falsities are created by the offenders for pure entertainment. Unfortunately, sometimes it will cause the "victim" to quit posting.

I personally have attended tournaments run by Mike Janis on the Viking Tour tournament trail. He, like many of us here on AzBilliards Discussion Forum, has a great deal of passion for the game and has devoted his life to making things happen for folks just like me and mine. In my experience, each Viking event runs smooth as butter, and I have NEVER seen anything which would make me question his integrity and honesty.

I've seen some great posters leave the Internet for good because of the negative back-and-forth colloquy which targets them personally, much like what exists right here in this thread. I could elaborate more, but at the risk of feeding the flame, I will just end this post in hopes that Mike Janis will realize that there are some posters who simply enjoy keeping the flame going, no matter what you post or how you respond.

JAM
Click to expand...

Well said, Jam.

Mike
 
I, for one, have been fascinated by this whole thread. Truly educational. Wow.

I decided to put my emotional ego on hold and read some of the posts again, for exact clarity. Folks, there's some very good stuff to be had in all of this.

Try re-reading WHAT was really said, not just HOW it was said.

Remember, people post on the internet for various reasons. Is it merely flaming-for-fun here? I think not. There's more to it than that.

My comment has to do with---guess what?---marketing of food and drinks during a tournament. If other rooms (apparently) make money selling drinks and food during tourneys, why can't you, Teacherman? Is your food bad, too much money, or what? I mean, even cheap-ass, lowlife scum-sucking pool players have to eat, don't they? Why would they leave a room to go elsewhere, unless somethings wrong at the hall? I'm confused about that aspect of your argument, especially since other halls seem to make it work, over and over.

For the record, I have much more respect for both of these guys than before.

Jeff Livingston
 
MikeJanis said:
Teacherman, there is no way in H E double toothpicks (Using language TM can understand) that I would ever bring the Viking Tour to your room. In fact, I am going to search out your competitors and give them a good deal just to get your goat.

Can anybody recomend one of these rooms or another?
They are all in the St. Louis area.
Mr B's ?
Crystal Billiards
Cue & Cushion
Pink Galleon?
Ride The Rail?
Washington Billiards ?
Andy Quinn's room ?
Sharky's ?

Mj
Click to expand...

I would recomend Chesterfield Billiards, west of town.

very nice place
 
Timberly said:
Hey, I resemble that remark!!! :mad: (it sucks not being able to play)

BTW, if you find a place & need a roommate, let me know... Not only will it put me closer to home, and closer to a "real" pool room again, but I'm freezing my ass off up here!!! :D Best of luck in not only finding a place but in the NUTS endeavor. Contrary to recent happenings today, there's still people here that are behind you & believe in what you do.

:cool:
Click to expand...


Timberly, the truck pulls out Thursday evening for the SC event then off the GA for a week or so to look for the house. Wanna go? If your gonna live there you should at least help pick it out.

Mj
 
Good Morning all. I see you've missed me.

Let's get started.

To the point of what the Mr. Janis' fee is, it is very easy to figure out if you attend a tournament. His unwillingness to discuss it means only he hopes others don't figure it out.

As watchez said, go to a tournament take the entry fee x the number of players and add in the added money. Then pay attention to the tournament prize fund, subtract. What's left is what he took from the supposed prize fund.

Then, pay attention to the calcutta. Calculate the total amount of the auction. Then find out the calcutta payouts. Subtract. That remaining amount is what he took from the calcutta.

Add those two number together and that is what he keeps. His sponsors may pay him something. I'm not concerned with that. They probably don't.

But, if I'm holding an event in my place, my reputation is at stake. My ability to hold future events is at stake. If the players don't think the payouts are reasonable compared to the entry fees, added money and calcutta, then my ability to get them back is harmed.

So, it is a reasonable question to ask Mr. Janis. His unwillingness to state it publicly, when it can be easily figured out by anyone at any of his events, means something. If he'd be more open, we'd all know.

I have run Teachers Amateur 9 Ball Tour in the past (for about 4 years). A local event which drew anywhere from 40 - 80 players each month. Summer turnout always low, winter high. When I advertised the event, the flyer stated what the entry fees were and how the prizes would be paid. Every nickel was accounted for. Before the event ever started they were told what would happen. After the event was over they got an accounting of where the money went. The ledger always balanced.

I have run Teachers 8 Ball League for 10 years. 3 session per year so 30 sessions. The league fees are stated on the advertisement. The prize money payouts are stated also. At the end of each session a P & L is printed and available to anyone who wants to see it. Every nickel is accounted for.

In other words, I live up to my word. I'm not afraid of it. I will talk openly about the payouts. I have no care or concern about any possible complaint because the money is collected and paid as I said it would be.

So, as a prospective host of a Viking Tour event, I would like the td to be as open and up front as I had been in the past. Hiding this information, which is easily determined by anyone anytime is not good practice. Calling it proprietary is ridiculous. Anyone can figure it out. Not being willing to save me the time by telling me up front is a waste of my time. And, as watchez said, since it's all there to be calculated, and he won't tell us, it must mean some owners get a better deal than others. Which I'm sure he doesn't want out there.
 
chefjeff said:
I, for one, have been fascinated by this whole thread. Truly educational. Wow.

I decided to put my emotional ego on hold and read some of the posts again, for exact clarity. Folks, there's some very good stuff to be had in all of this.

Try re-reading WHAT was really said, not just HOW it was said.

Remember, people post on the internet for various reasons. Is it merely flaming-for-fun here? I think not. There's more to it than that.

My comment has to do with---guess what?---marketing of food and drinks during a tournament. If other rooms (apparently) make money selling drinks and food during tourneys, why can't you, Teacherman? Is your food bad, too much money, or what? I mean, even cheap-ass, lowlife scum-sucking pool players have to eat, don't they? Why would they leave a room to go elsewhere, unless somethings wrong at the hall? I'm confused about that aspect of your argument, especially since other halls seem to make it work, over and over.

For the record, I have much more respect for both of these guys than before.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Great post Jeff and I agree. It is obvious to me that Mike runs a first class tournament and is very well respected. It is also clear to me that Teacher is a first class business owner who understands all aspects of what it takes for a business to succeed. I for one would love to live in his area and play out of his room.
I disagree with those who think this is nothing but a flaming thread and completely agree with Jeff that there is a lot to be learned here. Much more so than any thread on shafts, aiming, etc... This is a behind the scenes look at what probably goes on all the time for TD's and room owners. It would be great if everyone got along all the time but that is just not reality.

Dave
 
wayne said:
...a number of people who know Teacherman in person say he is a really nice guy and runs a nice establishment, yet, when he writes on here it is a totally different personality
Click to expand...


He would not have the cojones to say that type of stuff to someone's face.

I am glad I know the name of his place so I can make sure I never go there.
 
chefjeff said:
If other rooms (apparently) make money selling drinks and food during tourneys, why can't you, Teacherman? Is your food bad, too much money, or what? I mean, even cheap-ass, lowlife scum-sucking pool players have to eat, don't they? Why would they leave a room to go elsewhere, unless somethings wrong at the hall? Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

i have to say, that it is a fact that alot of players at a tournament will either:

not eat

or

eat very little

most people don't like to eat much during a tournament for fear of becoming sluggish.

also, some people leave the hall to find cheaper food, as its well known that poolplayers aren't exactly weathly, and will try to save as much money as possible.

next time you're at a tourney(and i dont' mean the weekly local one) look around, pay attention to the people actually playing the tournament. you'll see mostly water being drank and you won't see people eating. if they don't do that, then the owner doesn't make money.

i'm not taking sides, just giving my opinion from what i've witnessed.

although, i think that there is something that can be done here. during the tournament, why not either offer specials, or just plain cut the price a little for the duration of the tourney.

i don't own a hall, so i don't know much about it, but it seems that there has to be a logical way around the problems that teacherman has brought up.

thanks

VAP
 
Timberly said:
Hey, I resemble that remark!!! :mad: (it sucks not being able to play)

BTW, if you find a place & need a roommate, let me know... Not only will it put me closer to home, and closer to a "real" pool room again, but I'm freezing my ass off up here!!! :D Best of luck in not only finding a place but in the NUTS endeavor. Contrary to recent happenings today, there's still people here that are behind you & believe in what you do.

:cool:
Click to expand...

MikeJanis said:
Timberly, the truck pulls out Thursday evening for the SC event then off the GA for a week or so to look for the house. Wanna go? If your gonna live there you should at least help pick it out.

Mj
Click to expand...

Mj,

Be afraid.....Be very afraid! :D :eek: :D
 
I would like to add this in a separate post so as to not distract from the main point of the previous post.

The first year of Teachers Amateur Tour, I had promised a certain amount of prize money. I was $24,000 short in entry fees. But, the prize money I promised got paid. The second year I was $8000 short. But, the entire prize fund got paid. The third year was equivalent to the second year. The fourth year, I decided I couldn't take the losses any more, so I reduced the guaranteed payouts, but still had a system that if the turnout continued strong, the money would be almost equal to what it had been (about 90%). Guess what happened. I couldn't get more than 40 people to the event.

This event was an afternoon event. It ran from noon on Saturday to 6:00p. Then started at noon on Sunday and ran until about 5 or 6p on Sunday. This "afternoon" format fit perfectly for the business (didn't afffect prime time business) but also for the player. He could attend a tournament on Sat afternoon. He knew if he did poorly he'd be done by 6p. Could spend the rest of the weekend at whatever. If he did well, and advanced to Sunday, he still had Saturday night for the wife and family, girlfriend, whatever.

It would cost about $350 per month to advertise it. I sent a mailing each month to eveyone on my list. (about 850 names) We would ring about $400 on a large event and about $200 on the small events. So, after cost of product, the event was a loser. And this small loss doesn't include the larger loss of the prize fund deficit mentioned above.

I did it for 4 years hoping to create an ongoing local monthly tournament that would give the players an opportunity to compete, grow, and learn to play. The tournament was run in round robin format where every entrant got to play a minimum of 5 matches. It's intent was to provide enough playing time so you got a lot of matches so you could learn and develop your game. The enty fee was $40.

The players shoved it right up my ass. Which they have every right to do. But do they have the right to break it off in the process? I guess so. But, don't expect me to like it.

We had a base of about 30 players that you could count on. To this day they ask me if I'll ever restart the Tour again.

Please don't talk to me about my disdain for the player. The player is not capable of making a committment. Whether it be the pros or these amateurs. They are the most selfish group on earth. They are not capable of "doing the right thing".

Until their committment matches the room owners or td's committment nothing good will ever happen to out sport. They are all takers. No givers.
 
Last edited:
FYI, the line, "I resemble that remark," comes from the comedian Norm Crosby. Norm is hard of hearing, and he based his bit (career?) on "confusing" what people said to him and what he would say to others.

More info on Norm here:

http://shtick.org/NormCrosby/norm36.htm

Jeff Livingston
 
Wally in Cincy said:
He would not have the cojones to say that type of stuff to someone's face.

I am glad I know the name of his place so I can make sure I never go there.
Click to expand...

Ask christyd if I won't say it to your face.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top