Dennis Orcullo Can Beat Me 101 out of 100 Times, BUT...

Kickin' Chicken said:
Alternately, there appears to be a federal penitentiary lockup shot available courtesy of the 4 ball near that same upper corner. Looks like Dennis *with relative ease* could have sent the 1 ball down to the middle of the table while locking whitey behind that 4. The 1 ball being in the middle of the table could have provided a needed break out opportunity for the 3 ball.
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When it's Dennis vs Shane, I'm not so sure your safety is the percentage play.

The safety isn't as lockup as you think. Short of a perfect freeze to the 4 ball at the perfect spot you're going to leave an easy 1-rail kick. On a bar box Shane has got to be 90% to hit a 1-railer on a box. If it's a multi-rail kick he still has to be 40%. So lets say Dennis leaves a multi-rail kick 30% of the time and the 1-rail for the remaining 70%. That means Shane is going to make a good hit 75% of the time.

Who knows where things will end up after he makes that hit. Unless the 1 and CB roll into a perfect spot for the breakout how is that a better solution than taking the one, with bank shape on the 3? If Dennis rolls an inch or two shorter then he's at least 80-90% to make the 3, especially with help from the 5.
 
Well I managed to watch it long enough to see the shots you mentioned. My only opinion is the magic rack has officially made bar table 9 ball unwatchable. When you can soft break to hold whitey in the middle of the table AND make at least one ball EVERY time, the game becomes a real joke.
 
Still all this talk about "we should call the balls in 9b" and "we should change something to encourage hard breaking".

Guys, this is already a solved problem. Modern 10 ball.
Shots are called, nobody soft breaks, it's a great game.

Instead of trying to build rickety additions to the cabin, let's just move into the empty mansion next door.
 
TSW said:
I think he played the right shot for Dennis. Look at where he touches the table with his cue at 12:55. If he gets there, that bank on the 3 is 95%+ for Dennis, on a bar table, with the 5 as a sideboard. If the bank goes, he's out. He rolled just a little far.

The first rule of bar box 9 ball is: run out. At this caliber of play, Dennis doesn't want to let Shane to the table, even if Shane is hooked. Too many things can go wrong on a bar box.

Edit: If I'm playing, I probably play the safety as you described. But I don't have Dennis's runout skills.
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You've got it right TS. He just went a hair to far, many only an inch or so. It's not a hard out if he gets on the three like he wants. These guys don't understand that on a bar box, even a hook may go wrong if Shane kicks and hits the ball. Why give him any chance at all if you're confident you can run out.

I'd say Dennis' chances of getting out here are very good, maybe like 75-80% of the time at least. That's a winning percentage in my book!
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, that 3 wasn't really on and he rushed the shot as a result....it happens to everyone at times.

Does anyone else think they should at least call the 9 Ball? All of the ESPN tournaments I played in we had to call the 9 Ball and I really think all balls should be called. The only exception is allowing a two way shot (playing a safe and a shot at the same time) and a two way shot (playing and calling two balls, only having to make one to continue) in each game.

I also think this would be a lot better to watch if they had to roll out each game, it would require much more strategy and shot-making. imo This "soft break" is painful to watch.
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I agree CJ. I also think golfers and tennis players should call their shots as well. Don't you agree? :thumbup:
 
My guess is he was thinking Shane would probably execute the kick and the 3 still tied up. The way he did it, he broke out the 3 and was trying to play safe.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Far be it for me to second guess this champion's decision making but there was one instance from the USBTC 9 ball Final against Shane that I think is worth mentioning.

And, btw, my thought about this shot was the same prior to his ever pulling the trigger so it didn't come from the benefit of hindsight. It worked out for him anyway, as you will see.

At the 13:00 mark, watch as Dennis is facing a thin cut on the 1 ball into the top left corner and he is contemplating shaping up whitey for a 3 ball cross side shot which was fairly tough to not only get perfect on but also to execute, maybe a 60 - 70% chance would be my guess.

Alternately, there appears to be a federal penitentiary lockup shot available courtesy of the 4 ball near that same upper corner. Looks like Dennis *with relative ease* could have sent the 1 ball down to the middle of the table while locking whitey behind that 4. The 1 ball being in the middle of the table could have provided a needed break out opportunity for the 3 ball.

Please have a look and let me know how you would have played the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDsAzH7Ru9k&list=PLv61scj6dmBGPNT7ITtn7KTb3yvhnY_93&index=2
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First time I looked at this thread. Maybe because it's a bar table but I can't imagine not playing it like Dennis did. And I think he came up good on the bank and duffed it.

Freddie <~~~ would have duffed it
 
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The only excitement comes from when they have to push out once in a while.

vapoolplayer said:
The only issue I see with 2 way called shots is: how do you stop players from calling a 2 way shot on EVERY shot?

Lets face it, pool players try to exploit everything they can, just look at racking mechanics, soft breaks, etc. So how long would it be before players said "X ball and safe" on every shot they took?

Or would this be only an option say once or twice per rack?
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You limit this to once a game as well. We had these rules in the professional tour that I ran called the Professional Cue Sports Association.

When you're kicking (or shooting) you have to either call a shot or a safe, this makes for more strategic situations. I prefer Two Shot Roll Out, however, with one foul these rules are the best. Yes, champion players on a bar box with the magic rack is embarrassing for the players and not a good representation of the game by a long shot. The only excitement comes from when they have to push out once in a while. imho
 
CreeDo said:
Still all this talk about "we should call the balls in 9b" and "we should change something to encourage hard breaking".

Guys, this is already a solved problem. Modern 10 ball.
Shots are called, nobody soft breaks, it's a great game.

Instead of trying to build rickety additions to the cabin, let's just move into the empty mansion next door.
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Wise words sir.
 
CreeDo said:
The double kiss made Dennis' shot look like a bigger blunder than it was. If whitey gets out of the way, the bank probably goes swish.

He arguably should have said "Well, I went a few inches too far and now the double kiss is unavoidable". Then ducked off the 3. The mistake wasn't trying to run out, but rather BSing himself into believing a ball goes when it simply doesn't.

For guys at a lower level, the safety is a good play and it's probably what I would do. Against a B player, the kick will probably miss and you'd get ball in hand with a chance to break out the 3. Against Shane, the kick is never gonna miss and you may not have an easier shot to sink the 1 and deal with the 3. So dennis chose a definite gameplan over a semi-random outcome.
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I disagree that he was trying to bank the 2. He was trying to play safe behind the 7 and breaking out the 2 ball at the same time. If the cue ball hadn't contacted the 9 ball he would have had no shot on the 4 thus no benefit to banking the 3.
 
I think going for the runout was the right thing for Dennis to do at that moment in that match. Up to that point they had broke and ran all four of the previous racks. Shane was using the soft break so effectively that it was probably safe to assume he might run out every time he broke the balls. Therefore, I think Dennis needed to try to do the same thing.

These guys made such a mockery of playing this game on this table with this rack that they both probably felt they were putting the match at risk ANY time their opponent came to the table on their break.

All that aside though, I too think Dennis was simply a statistical favorite to get out from there.
 
They take great pride in making golf courses more difficult, yet pool gets easier

TASK said:
I think going for the runout was the right thing for Dennis to do at that moment in that match. Up to that point they had broke and ran all four of the previous racks. Shane was using the soft break so effectively that it was probably safe to assume he might run out every time he broke the balls. Therefore, I think Dennis needed to try to do the same thing.

These guys made such a mockery of playing this game on this table with this rack that they both probably felt they were putting the match at risk ANY time their opponent came to the table on their break.

All that aside though, I too think Dennis was simply a statistical favorite to get out from there.
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If you don't shoot at offensive shots when you can playing on a bar table you will lose at this level.

Bar tables with new cloth and a magic rack is like pro baseball players playing "T Ball," if you don't hit a "home run" on every shot, you may as well not play. They take great pride in making golf courses more difficult, yet pool has become this easy.....it just doesn't make sense.....or does it?
'The Game is the Teacher'
 
I thought he was gonna play inside on the 1 and bump the 3-8.
I wouldn't of thought to shape the bank, but I'm not Orcollo and I suck at banks!
 
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