nothing confirmed here, but i just heard tony and jason are now playing 9-ball probably 10 ahead for maybe the 9k.
M.C.
M.C.
Detroit action today?! Cohen vs Kirkwood
- Thread starter eddieindetroit
- Start date
curlyscues said:
Yeah.. Chris Bartrum I think is slowly but surely moving into that upper echelon level. He has the seasoning to come with the long hard tough shot for the cheese, and these other guys know he is not going to fold on him.
I know Chris took a beating at DCC this year. What are everyone's thoughts about his chances at the same games he lost at this year?
Think those top guys are still willing to offer Chris the same spots?
Russ
Ktown D said:
Hmm.. This is an interesting matchup... I was watching a recent US Open match of Shannon's, and I have a few observations to make..
He definitely does not have the position finesse of some of the top top pros. But, his accuracy makes up for it. If he gets a little too straight on a ball, he has the accuracy to hammer that ball in on a Diamond Pro/Am, and still get good position.
No matter how tough the shot, he NEVER dogs it. That is, he nevers misses a ball due to being scared of the shot. He did miss a few shots due to being a bit careless, and this might be due to rustiness.
That being said, here's how I think that matchup would go. Right now, TC is a slight favorite. I don't think he can give Shannon more than 9-8.. Now, if you give Shannon some time to work back into his true One Pocket game, I think it goes the other way, but with Chohan getting maybe 10-8 or 9-7. The reason for this is that if Chohan traps Shannon, a lot of the time Shannon is just gonna shoot his way out. Shannon probably knows quite a few more moves than Chohan, so if Shannon is executing well, he is going to be a step or two ahead of Chohan every couple of racks, so Shannon will win some games he would not win against, say Efren..
Let me know what you guys think of this analysis...
Russ
CB is maybe playing a 1/2 ball better than he was and he could very well get the same games he got in January. I bet on him once and against him twice. I dogged it and bet on Keith Bennett playing him because I was betting on KB's break and the fact that he was in stroke. I like CB's game but his lack of a great break will keep him from jumping up and beating some of the top tier guys IMO.Russ Chewning said:Yeah.. Chris Bartrum I think is slowly but surely moving into that upper echelon level. He has the seasoning to come with the long hard tough shot for the cheese, and these other guys know he is not going to fold on him.
I know Chris took a beating at DCC this year. What are everyone's thoughts about his chances at the same games he lost at this year?
Think those top guys are still willing to offer Chris the same spots?
Russ
Ktown D said:
Hmm.. Well, I think it may be better characterized as, he is playing 1/2 a ball better against top tier players, but maybe a ball or two better against non-champions.
I don't think that a year ago he would have been capable of running through some of the guys he has played recently, so quickly.
Russ
I respect his game, he does what he does. He is a great safety player and can run out all day. I think he has stepped up his game a little and he is probably favored against some of the guys that were tossups not long ago. There are still people around that would be willing to play him a little.Russ Chewning said:
dimes33 said:on the baby tables he would actually be the fav-o-rite russy!
I'd bet Jason playing Eight Ball on a bar box. A whole different deal here.
Tony's a great player, but has yet to prove himself as an upper-echelon pro in rotation games. Don't get me wrong tho -- I watched him dominate many a tournament, including a Swanee Tournament on tight pockets where he got out from nowhere.
That said, I'd only consider him an upper-echelon player in one-pocket. But no doubt, on any given day he can certainly beat a champion playing 9-ball or 10-ball. But in the long run, he's got his work cut out for him against the top pros. In two or three years, I'd be curious how he and Kirkwood end up in a big ahead set. It might be closer than you think.
That said, I'd only consider him an upper-echelon player in one-pocket. But no doubt, on any given day he can certainly beat a champion playing 9-ball or 10-ball. But in the long run, he's got his work cut out for him against the top pros. In two or three years, I'd be curious how he and Kirkwood end up in a big ahead set. It might be closer than you think.
Russ Chewning said:I'm calling shenanigans here.
SHENANIGANS, I say!
NObody is a BIG favorite over Tony Chohan gambling, except MAYBE Orcullo, Reyes, Van Boening, Stevie Moore, and Corey, and a few of the other players who are a threat to win any world class event. Anybody else can pretty much get played even and get played hard.
Also, Tony has proven in Florida he is an upper echelon pro in 10 ball. There is a biiiiig difference between an upper echelon pro and everyone else. Look at the areas the two players have historically played in. I'm thinking California is a little tougher to fade than JK's area.
The way I see it, Chohan has DOMINATED his area, and shot almost everyone down for the big cash, wherever he has gone. Kirkwood has simply won a bit more than his fair share.
Saying Jason is a favorite even up against Chohan sounds like a local player backing his local man, but not aware of just how horrendously strong Chohan is.
I'm thinking that even playing his best, in a long ahead set, Kirkwood has to catch a gear to win. Chohan simply needs to play his normal game. Yes, it is completely possible for Kirkwood to win, but saying he is the favorite is ridiculous.
Russ
Russ Chewning said:Eh..
Mebbe so.. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time a pro not well known for bar table pool stepped up and knocked off a bar table champion and surprised a few people...
I had no idea Cliff Joyner was a bar table monster until he placed high in a big bar table tournament.. Was that the US Bar Table Championship?
Let's keep in mind that just because a player wins alllllllll the bar table tournaments in his area, doesn't mean he's a bar table champion.. Mike Zimmerman used to win 2 out of 3 bar table tournaments in WA, OR, and Montana.. I would never think to put him up against any well known pro on the barbox, though.. (Sorry, Linda!) He just had issues when playing the superpros... Did he have the technical ability to beat them? Yes.. He just had a little bit of trouble with players of that speed.
JMHO.. I did see a lot of bar table pool in WA and OR, but never thought that anybody from that area was a threat against players like Medina, Deuel, Archer, etc.. Even though the WA and OR players had won US Bar Table Championships.... Not denigrating those great players at all, but on the barbox, playing a race to 7 or 9 in a tournament is a completely different animal than having a guy run 3-5 racks on you in a 10 ahead gambling match, and having a delicate shot that you have to take and get good position on, and no way to avoid selling out if you miss..
Russ
Four years ago Cliff won both divisions of the U.S. Bar Table against strong fields. He forgot to miss any balls.
T-Rex is probably the second best One Pocket player in the world today. There, I said it! I doubt that he and Cliff will play though. If they did, I damn sure wouldn't bet a dime. I deleted my next comments for personal reasons. I'd rather say it in person. It doesn't belong on the net.
I think that in the near future T-Rex will challenge Efren. He is the man who would like to be KING! And maybe he will be someday. Too bad that he will never be half the man Efren is though. I said that too!
I think that in the near future T-Rex will challenge Efren. He is the man who would like to be KING! And maybe he will be someday. Too bad that he will never be half the man Efren is though. I said that too!
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dimes33 said:we usually see it the same way but i dont think tony beats cliff but like you said they may never play.doesnt matter i couldnt bet it either waylol
That's not what he is saying.. He is being polite, but I won't.
Cliff and/or Tony would be likely to dump the way that is most profitable, so even if Jay has a belief in who is better, it just don't pay to bet on them horses..
See, that's the thing.. When players become know as dump artists, it kills their action. The reason Cliff is known as "Spotmaster" isn't so much because he has the heart to spot the world to lesser players and win, (although he does), it is because he has dumped a lot of people, and finds it hard to get back for big action against fellow pros, so he has to spot the world to lesser players to stay in action.
I don't mind educating those who don't know, as this type of player I generally would not even say "Hello" to, no matter how well they play.
(Let the flames begin...
)Russ
um....what you think i meant by i couldnt bet it either way?Russ Chewning said:That's not what he is saying.. He is being polite, but I won't.
Cliff and/or Tony would be likely to dump the way that is most profitable, so even if Jay has a belief in who is better, it just don't pay to bet on them horses..
See, that's the thing.. When players become know as dump artists, it kills their action. The reason Cliff is known as "Spotmaster" isn't so much because he has the heart to spot the world to lesser players and win, (although he does), it is because he has dumped a lot of people, and finds it hard to get back for big action against fellow pros, so he has to spot the world to lesser players to stay in action.
I don't mind educating those who don't know, as this type of player I generally would not even say "Hello" to, no matter how well they play.
(Let the flames begin...
Russ
i know just a little bit.
How much better is T-Rex playing rotation than he did 1-2 years ago? I have seen & won a chunk of change twice betting on John Hager Jr playing Tony even 10 ball. No contest for the grind of Hager.
Russ-Unless you have seen T-Rex play somewhere lately, I think you have his rotation game over rated. Who has he beat playing 9, 10 ball in the past 12 months? Name three. Not saying he hasn't, just I haven't heard myself.
One pocket, a different story.
Also, when Kirkwood played Bennett & won, I think Kirkwood had at least 5 hours of drinking in him. That was equally as impressive.
Jay, I wouldn't bet a dime either.
And Russ, I think Orcullo would offer the same spots to CB right now & ask to bet more money.
Russ-Unless you have seen T-Rex play somewhere lately, I think you have his rotation game over rated. Who has he beat playing 9, 10 ball in the past 12 months? Name three. Not saying he hasn't, just I haven't heard myself.
One pocket, a different story.
Also, when Kirkwood played Bennett & won, I think Kirkwood had at least 5 hours of drinking in him. That was equally as impressive.
Jay, I wouldn't bet a dime either.
And Russ, I think Orcullo would offer the same spots to CB right now & ask to bet more money.
LOL.....How do you really feel?jay helfert said:
There aren't many people around TC's age that will challenge him in the coming years but for now I still like CJ. I know of another accomplished oneholer that is getting the itch again and is subject to challenge any of them.
2nd set
jason and t rex are playing another set of 9 ball 10 ahead for 5 or 6 k. they were even when i left. jason has the better break but i think tony will get there. they are playing on the same table as tony would not play chris on any other table. jason did look like he had some wind back in his sails though.
jason and t rex are playing another set of 9 ball 10 ahead for 5 or 6 k. they were even when i left. jason has the better break but i think tony will get there. they are playing on the same table as tony would not play chris on any other table. jason did look like he had some wind back in his sails though.
watchez said:
I couldn't agree with you more.... Jason is the favorite playing Tony anything but 1p on either table. It sounds like Jay is a little slow to start today but all I can say is he works for a living and he only gets to play alot a few times a year when he takes time off work to do so. If he was playing everyday Chohan would hate the game. Evidentally Chris thinks the same way I do, he's there betting on it!
Saw
watchez said:
Keep in mind, this is in a tournament, the Seminole Pro Tour, which I believe is 10 ball, but here you go:
Chohan beat:
Dennis Hatch (Yeah, the Dennis that ran like 5 racks of 10 ball.. THAT one..)
Donnie Mills (he beat him 7-2..)
Riche Orem, winner of the Sands Regency Open
Dave Grossman
Danny Harriman (must have been a good match, score was 8-4 Chohan)
He then got beat by Marlon Manalo.. No shame there...
Chohan the year before placed 3rd in the Sands Regency Open, so I imagine he beat a few names to get there..
He can play, just a little. He's got a few matches on propoolvideo.com.. Checkum out..
Russ
Can you please further explain your comment in parenthesis ( ) about Dennis Hatch and the 5 racks of 10 ball? I don't follow that.
Kirkwood is a beast, and not a bar table specialist. Also, Kirkwood is more level headed & much more shark proof than Tony.
Sounds like Tony had a very nice tournament. I am not saying that Tony can't play and obvious has tremendous skills. That being said, it is not in his best interest to match up with the Kirkwoods or Bartrums of the world playing rotation games of 9 ball or 10 ball on a big table. 8 out of 10 times, he will come out on the short end---unless I have just missed it the past 18 months, as I previously stated.
Kirkwood is a beast, and not a bar table specialist. Also, Kirkwood is more level headed & much more shark proof than Tony.
Sounds like Tony had a very nice tournament. I am not saying that Tony can't play and obvious has tremendous skills. That being said, it is not in his best interest to match up with the Kirkwoods or Bartrums of the world playing rotation games of 9 ball or 10 ball on a big table. 8 out of 10 times, he will come out on the short end---unless I have just missed it the past 18 months, as I previously stated.