Diamond 7FT vs Valley/Cougar

DelaWho??? said:
I am also in the market for a 7' but I was looking at Brunswick or Olhausen. How do they compare to the Diamond?

B
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No comparison available as brunswick or olhausen have a commercial style coin op table. The closest you would come would be a olhausen champion pro which is available in a 7ft size. But in my opinion still a glorified home table.

As a table mechanic for 20 years, Bar tables including valley have played
terrible. Out of the box they play slow. When we talk about rails bolting thru the slate we are talking about ONE of the greatest improvements in play in the history of pool. Valley to this day do not use this construction method!!!! Diamonds Do!
 
DelaWho??? said:
I am also in the market for a 7' but I was looking at Brunswick or Olhausen. How do they compare to the Diamond?

B
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When it comes to 7fts, the Diamond ProAm has no competition...period!

Glen
 
Hi Folks,

While we are talking about the differences in tables, you've missed the two prime areas.

I have never played on a Diamond bar box without Simonis 860 cloth. I have never played on a Valley with Simonis 860. Big, big difference. Most venders put cheap cloth on the Valleys. The venders are more interested in longevity.

The second area is the cue ball used. The Diamonds I've played on use the Aramith cue ball that comes with the set of Super Pro's. The Valleys I played on two weeks ago at the ACS event used at least three different weighted cue balls. I'd forgotten about the wonderful sideways rolls these cue balls sometimes take:eek: .

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Hi Folks,

While we are talking about the differences in tables, you've missed the two prime areas.

I have never played on a Diamond bar box without Simonis 860 cloth. I have never played on a Valley with Simonis 860. Big, big difference. Most venders put cheap cloth on the Valleys. The venders are more interested in longevity.

The second area is the cue ball used. The Diamonds I've played on use the Aramith cue ball that comes with the set of Super Pro's. The Valleys I played on two weeks ago at the ACS event used at least three different weighted cue balls. I'd forgotten about the wonderful sideways rolls these cue balls sometimes take:eek: .

Lyn
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A Diamond table would make the thicker Championship Titan cloth or even the Mali bar table cloth play good, but Simonis 860 would make a Valley play worse than it already does. Because of the faster roll on Simonis, the swayback in the Valley slate would show up even more as being un-level, because the thicker cloth used on bar tables hides that defect in most all bar tables.

Glen
 
enough already....

Spend the money and get a diamond, here is why....

Just over a year ago the bar i play in house bca league at put in 6 new diamond tables. There are still 6 valley tables at the bar to, but the valleys are in a different section of the bar. The valley tables have 860 on them too.

When the diamonds went in many people even many master players were complaining that the diamond played to hard. But that was then. Now no one complains about them at all.

This year our bca regional event went to the diamond tables and a funny thing happened. Our bar posted more top 10 finishers then all the others. Men, women, teams, open, and masters our players kicked the crap out of the fields. The diamond tables have helped to make our players better.

RESALE---- Good luck with the resale of a Valley. If you buy your table used you might sell it for close to what you paid for it, but not new. You will lose your butt. Diamond on the other hand will hold it's value much better.

As posted earlier, quality. Diamond is tops.

Looks, hello, diamond all day everyday and twice on Sunday.

Tournaments using diamonds. Many big events are now moving to the diamonds. If you have a diamond will be well equipped to compete on them, if you go to a event and the have valley tables you WILL have an advantage.

my .02, i'm currently saving for a diamond, getting close!!!!!
 
AGreed . . .

SPetty said:
If you normally play on a larger table, but only have room for a 7', then the Diamond would probably be a better choice.
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You'll have more fun in the long run playing on the Diamond . . . no magnetic cue ball and the tighter pockets make it great choice .. . little pricey depending on the model though.
 
realkingcobra said:
Because of the faster roll on Simonis, the swayback in the Valley slate would show up even more as being un-level, because the thicker cloth used on bar tables hides that defect in most all bar tables.Glen
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What's your take on the new Diamond leveling system? I watch Paul Smith at work and it was amazing!!!!

Lyn
 
Playing on a Diamond is "real" pool. Playing on a Valley is "bar" pool. The difference between the two, starting with the real cue ball, is like night and day!
 
cardiac kid said:
What's your take on the new Diamond leveling system? I watch Paul Smith at work and it was amazing!!!!

Lyn
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I said years ago, the full size one piece slate was the nuts:D no seams to match up, and can be leveled far beyond that of a 3 piece slate, not that a 3 piece slate can't be leveled, it can be, but not like a one piece with the Diamond leveling system, and NO other table manufacture today can make that claim!!!
Glen
 
If You Play On Valley Tables, Get One Of Those, And Shim The Pockets Up.

The Diamonds Play To "different" In My Opinion To Act As A Good Practice Table.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
If You Play On Valley Tables, Get One Of Those, And Shim The Pockets Up.

The Diamonds Play To "different" In My Opinion To Act As A Good Practice Table.
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You can shim the pockets on a Valley all you want, but that won't change the fact that the corner pocket slate shelf is right out there at the mouth of the pocket!!! Tighter pockets on a Valley, just makes the pockets even more easy, you already CAN"T rattle a ball in the pockets now as it is, why on earth would anyone want to make them even easier? Easy pockets DON'T help ANYONE'S game at all.

Glen
 
Personaly, I'd rather practice on a Diamond, then step my game down to a Valley, than practice on a Valley, and try to bring THAT game to a Diamond!

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
You can shim the pockets on a Valley all you want, but that won't change the fact that the corner pocket slate shelf is right out there at the mouth of the pocket!!! Tighter pockets on a Valley, just makes the pockets even more easy, you already CAN"T rattle a ball in the pockets now as it is, why on earth would anyone want to make them even easier? Easy pockets DON'T help ANYONE'S game at all.

Glen
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SO MAKING THE OPENINGS TO THE HOLESSMALLER, DOESN'T MAKE POCKETING HARDER? :confused:
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
SO MAKING THE OPENINGS TO THE HOLESSMALLER, DOESN'T MAKE POCKETING HARDER? :confused:
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No, making the pockets smaller just makes the target smaller, it don't make the pocket harder! Look, when you narrow the mouth of the corner pockets beyond the point of a ball being able to rattle out of the pocket, by limiting the area in the mouth of the pocket in which a ball can sit on the slate shelf, all you've done is eliminate ball pocketing error on the players part to either the ball is IN, or it's OUT, that's it. And Valley's already have the shortest slate shelves on the market, DESIGNED to make money by NOT rejecting the balls, that's why they play so easy already. Now if you narrow the pocket opening, AND you have a deep shelf slate, you have to be more accurate in getting the balls deeper in the jaws of the pocket in order to pocket the balls, because if you don't, then the balls are going to hang up in the pockets, THAT'S a tight pocket, but just cutting down the opening, is a waste of time on a Valley table. That's NOT my opinion by the way, that's a fact....LOL

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
No, making the pockets smaller just makes the target smaller, it don't make the pocket harder! Look, when you narrow the mouth of the corner pockets beyond the point of a ball being able to rattle out of the pocket, by limiting the area in the mouth of the pocket in which a ball can sit on the slate shelf, all you've done is eliminate ball pocketing error on the players part to either the ball is IN, or it's OUT, that's it. And Valley's already have the shortest slate shelves on the market, DESIGNED to make money by NOT rejecting the balls, that's why they play so easy already. Now if you narrow the pocket opening, AND you have a deep shelf slate, you have to be more accurate in getting the balls deeper in the jaws of the pocket in order to pocket the balls, because if you don't, then the balls are going to hang up in the pockets, THAT'S a tight pocket, but just cutting down the opening, is a waste of time on a Valley table. That's NOT my opinion by the way, that's a fact....LOL

Glen
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AGREED ABOUT THE DEEPER POCKETS BEING THE "TIGHTEST", BUT AS FAR AS A VALLEY GOES, IF THE TARGET AREA IS SMALLER, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET THE OBL=JECT BALL IN THAT TARGET.

I AGREE THAT A DIAMOND IS A TOUGHER TABLE, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO PARCTICE ON A DIAMOND AND THEN SWITCH TO A VALLEY. IT'S JUST MY FEELING, THAT THE TWO TABLES PLAY TO "DIFFERENT"

I'D RATHER HAVE A VALLEY PRACTICE TABLE, WITH SMALLER "TARGETS", IF MY COMPETITIVE PLAY WAS ON VALLEYS.

P.S. I UNDERSTAND ALL THE OTHER DIFFERENCES YOU POINTED OUT, AND FULLY AGREE.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
AGREED ABOUT THE DEEPER POCKETS BEING THE "TIGHTEST", BUT AS FAR AS A VALLEY GOES, IF THE TARGET AREA IS SMALLER, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET THE OBL=JECT BALL IN THAT TARGET.

I AGREE THAT A DIAMOND IS A TOUGHER TABLE, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO PARCTICE ON A DIAMOND AND THEN SWITCH TO A VALLEY. IT'S JUST MY FEELING, THAT THE TWO TABLES PLAY TO "DIFFERENT"

I'D RATHER HAVE A VALLEY PRACTICE TABLE, WITH SMALLER "TARGETS", IF MY COMPETITIVE PLAY WAS ON VALLEYS.

P.S. I UNDERSTAND ALL THE OTHER DIFFERENCES YOU POINTED OUT, AND FULLY AGREE.
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Are you aware that Diamond's with Pro pockets, and Valley tables have the same 4 1/2" pocket openings? And with BOTH tables having the same pocket openings, the Diamond is the harder table to play on? And if the Diamond is the harder table to play on, wouldn't that in fact help your game...when it comes to playing on a Valley...being the easier table to pocket balls on? Just a thought:D Using the same cue ball of course;)

Glen
 
You all have some great points, my main feelings were that if you play for money sets on a valley bar box it would be in your best interest to get one as close to replication as possible to the ones you will be playing on. I think it may add to the comfort level as well as your expertise on shooting certain shots certain ways because you are already acclimitized/familiar with the table.
 
Like I said, it's easier to step down your game to play on a Valley from a Diamond, but I see the players all the time get beat playing on a Diamond table, when all they're use to playing on are Valley tables, but I have yet to see someone that plays good on Diamonds, play bad on a Valleys;)

Check out the BCA nationals....LOL the Valley table players struggle all the time on the Diamonds, because of the pockets, yet the APA players that play on Diamonds don't have to adjust to the Valley tables at the APA playoffs;)

Glen
 
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