Good post. When I am coming to an unfamiliar table I do a bank drill and then a draw drill this gives me a good feel for how that table plays; but your CB wasn’t coming up short? Just the banked OB’s?
Diamond Tables and the bank shot
- Thread starter Raider510
- Start date
Thanks for all the replies.
I noticed that when I took more speed off of the cue ball, I went too far wide of the pocket. I generally didn't put much power into the shots, but I think I was overcompensating with English.
I want to make sure I understand this correctly. If I over-cut the bank and use no english, it will generally make the pocket play bigger? Like I said, I'm not the best player, just trying to learn whatever I can to improve.:thumbup:
I noticed that when I took more speed off of the cue ball, I went too far wide of the pocket. I generally didn't put much power into the shots, but I think I was overcompensating with English.
I want to make sure I understand this correctly. If I over-cut the bank and use no english, it will generally make the pocket play bigger? Like I said, I'm not the best player, just trying to learn whatever I can to improve.:thumbup:
That would be correct, the Blue Logo Diamond's have been changed from the rail design that Diamond has used for the last 26 years or so, and it's only been about 18 months since that change took place, so that means there's a lot of Diamond's that have not had that change as of yet, but soon I'll be offering that service to those that would like to make the upgrade in the near future. Diamond didn't build the tables in the past wrong as far as I'm concerned, just different. All I did was kind of redesign the position of the cushions on the sub-rails to lower down the back of the cushions to in a way, level out the cushions behind the cushion nose to redirect the energy of the banks more direct in and out off the cushions, the nose height is still the same as it was before the change. The nose height at 1 29/64"ths IS the correct nose height, but lowering the back of the cushions is what softens the banks a little and slows down the speed off the cushions to be more manageable. Even still, as John mentioned...as a player, you still have to adjust to the table and environment the table is in...on ANY pool table.
Glen
Where have you been?Everyone struggled playing on Diamonds for the first time.The first year the BCAPL used Diamond tables at nationals many players were very frustrated but once they got used to them many of them prefered playing on Diamonds.
Practice banking by banking wider until you get used to the rails.Position play is also much different from say a Valley table.
Practice banking by banking wider until you get used to the rails.Position play is also much different from say a Valley table.
I think that part of what John is saying is that you will learn more from your misses if you pay attention to where the ob missed the pocket. Long or short and by how much. You can adjust the ob path to the pocket with speed, english or both combined whichever gets the cue ball to the next shot location. Naturally this is easier said than done and the experienced players can adjust quicker, more accurately and easier than others, that is part of what makes them so damn good! If you have not had the chance to watch John Brumback play you are missing something quite special!! JMO, but seeing is believing......
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Sounds to me like the part in blue above must make the rails rebound longer (because the ball's speed perpendicular to the rail decreases compared to its speed parallel to the rail). Is that also part of the result?
pj
chgo
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You guessed it, it also makes the corner pockets a little more forgiving when a ball comes into contact with a rail on the way to the corner pockets with the right speed, because the cushions are not as springy which causes the ball to widen the angle off the cushions making the pocket reject the ball more often.
Glen
I was asking for this but I received the perfect answer. I'm a little disappointed the pockets are playing easier now
Several years ago a local pool room re-covered their tables, as they did every year just prior to hosting the state amateur 9-ball tournament, and the tables started banking really short after the cloth change. The aim point for a standard 3-rail kick changed by more than a diamond overnight - the tables were GC types, but started playing more like a Diamond with the new cloth. People complained and speculated about what might be wrong - eventually, the table mechanic said he had figured out what he did wrong, and fixed the issue. I wondered if perhaps the cloth had been stretched too tight over the cushions, compressing the rubber and possibly changing the nose height slightly. He would never tell us what he did to fix them, so it remains a mystery.
Aaron
Aaron
Loose cloth will cause that in no time, trust me:grin:
Following my reasoning above, this would happen because increased cloth friction slows the ball's speed parallel to the rail compared to its speed perpendicular to the rail. This effect is undoubtedly greater at some angles and less at others.
pj
chgo
Aw come on, folks! You really believe this is the real John Brumback? We all know the real John Brumback is "JBKY" on these forums. This is like folks signing in to live stream chats as "Cliff_Joyner" or "Marty_Herman" or "PocketPoint" to get a rise.
<tisk, tisk>
-Sean <-- yes, I know that John changed his AZB screenname recently. Just engaging a little friendly poke at everyone, including John.
Aw come on, folks! You really believe this is the real John Brumback? We all know the real John Brumback is "JBKY" on these forums. This is like folks signing in to live stream chats as "Cliff_Joyner" or "Marty_Herman" or "PocketPoint" to get a rise.
<tisk, tisk>
-Sean <-- yes, I know that John changed his AZB screenname recently. Just engaging a little friendly poke at everyone, including John.
You had me worried there for a minute Sean. LOL.
Aaron
I question this wisdom. While it's generally true that overcutting and shortening the rebound embiggens the pocket, it's not by much - and I wonder if the added aiming difficulty is really worth the very small improvement in approach angle.
pj
chgo
I think both firm and soft speeds have their place. It's true that the pocket isn't getting much bigger when you firm your banks, but it seems that hitting them firm carries other benefits as well, such as the rebound angle being more predictable (for me at least). While observing the guys who really have the game figured out (JB, Brian Gregg, Shannon, etc.), I just don't see many banks rolled in, which leads me to believe that hitting them firm is where the percentage is. Obviously, however, 1p usually dictates that you roll your banks, so we would ideally become proficient at aiming for both soft and firm speeds. I think John was suggesting we practice the method so we have that tool in our bag, but not necessarily because its the best way to hit all banks.
Aaron
I agree that hitting banks firmly helps to reduce variables, and that most bankers favor a firm hit for this reason (me too) - and that it means most shots need to be overcut (from the "equal angle" line) at least a little. But I consider this to be typical banking technique, and I thought Brumback advocates overcutting even more than typical to gain an even greater advantage.
Maybe I misunderstood (happened once last century, if I'm not mistaken).
pj
chgo
JC
Coos Cues
I never saw so much thin cutting in my life until I attended my first Diamond table event.:smile:
It's huge and it makes aiming easy.And I also advocate over cutting them alot.I can make a tight Diamond look like a loose bar table,if the cloth is in good shape and the pockets are cut right.I can show it and teach it better than I can explain it though.That's why I put it on my dvd that I have for sale:smile:John B.