Did anyones game get better after getting a predator?

[naji]

Naji,

Can you define what the squirt characteristics are for shafts you consider to be high deflection shafts and those you consider to be Low Deflection? A label means little if we can't agree on what it means. Since standard maple shafts and Shafts marketed as LD have varying degrees of squirt, how do you define what is a LD vs high deflection shaft?

Thanks for your reply.

1st lets us be on same base! We agree that OB will change direction after CB contact in few ways, 1-it throws if it got stunned with CB with no english on it (CB sliding at contact point, or have very slow role), 2- OB direction can be changed to left or right with CB have english stun (sliding but spinning left or right, or very slow role and spinning (spin induced throw), 3- with very soft CB spinning and rolling hit which either swerve or EIT changes direction or both , 4- Shots that are hit hard with top or bottom so CB roles and spins at contact time have very little effect on OB direction only on CB direction before it reaches OB.

of all above the only one that will tell you what the cue only doing (deflection/ CB squirt) is item 4 above, since the hard hit will eliminate swerve, and the role will eliminate considerably spin induce throw. Anything else will have mixed squirt, swerve, and EIT therefore not good to judge a cue.

Having said that LD or HD cue with same tip dia will deflect CB from its expected path some more than others, it is possible to have HD cue with same property as LD if you make HD cue with smaller dia say 14 mm LD, vs 12 mm for HD shaft, so tip size is a factor too. Also a factor how much tip of english you are using, and if you using parallel, VS BHE. Therefore one cannot really say this cue is better than that unless you are talking same test criteria, and only when a player is expert in applying all pool knowledge will he play better.

True you can use cue deflection property to make shots but that depends on many variables, shot must be hard hit to stun, or controlled stun, tip placement accuracy, distance between OB & CB, CB near rail -elevated, and few others as i stated in earlier post, with that many variables it takes a lot of time to get used to no matter what cue you use.

 

[mantis99]

I got a comparable ld shaft that was not a predator. I expected a much bigger change, but really didn't notice that much difference. I was thinking of going back to my regular maple for a while just to see if the difference is more than I think. I know I certainly didn't go up a ball though.

 

[whitewolf]

I just switched back to one a couple weeks ago. The biggest improvements I saw after going back to one were:

1) You can put more spin/draw on the ball with less effort
2) You can aim to the same spot on the OB without adjust for deflection. Makes for more consistency

Totally untrue. Predator does NOT have zero deflection. It does however have less deflection than a standard maple shaft. Ask Mike Massey if you don't believe me. In my friend's basement Mike demonstrated this by shooting from one end of the table to the other end - with a non LD shaft and a Predator shaft. He stated that where a regular shaft may deflect 3 inches, a Predator shaft may deflect half of that, or 1.5 inches, and demonstrated this.

After watching CJ's video on a TOI, I figured out why players using english play better with a Predator. That's because (like the old me) they don't realize what deflection is doing to their shots.

For example, let's take a shot that is one inch off the rail half way up from the corner pocket to the side pocket. The cue ball is between the head spot and the same side rail. You are going to hit the shot with low outside english at medium speed. Most average players like me will bang the object ball into the rail even before it hits the corner pocket, attributing the miss to a bad stroke or bad aiming, when in fact it is the deflection that is causing this. And don't give me this crap where your mind will adjust for all this subconciously. When this average player (like me) starts using a Predator he will start making this shot a greater percentage of the time because of less deflection.

 

[CreeDo]

I got a comparable ld shaft that was not a predator. I expected a much bigger change, but really didn't notice that much difference. I was thinking of going back to my regular maple for a while just to see if the difference is more than I think. I know I certainly didn't go up a ball though.

You're not supposed to go up a ball... If you bought it expecting that, you were fed some hype. Hopefully the original poster reads all this and doesn't fall into the same trap. The way to get a ball better is practice, it's not something you can buy at Seybert's.

They only change your line of aim on spin shots. Before switching back decide if that's important to you, or if you are happy aiming the way you did with the maple.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

 

[BelleBelle]

There's al

 

[dr9ball]

1st lets us be on same base! We agree that OB will change direction after CB contact in few ways, 1-it throws if it got stunned with CB with no english on it (CB sliding at contact point, or have very slow role), 2- OB direction can be changed to left or right with CB have english stun (sliding but spinning left or right, or very slow role and spinning (spin induced throw), 3- with very soft CB spinning and rolling hit which either swerve or EIT changes direction or both , 4- Shots that are hit hard with top or bottom so CB roles and spins at contact time have very little effect on OB direction only on CB direction before it reaches OB.

of all above the only one that will tell you what the cue only doing (deflection/ CB squirt) is item 4 above, since the hard hit will eliminate swerve, and the role will eliminate considerably spin induce throw. Anything else will have mixed squirt, swerve, and EIT therefore not good to judge a cue.

Having said that LD or HD cue with same tip dia will deflect CB from its expected path some more than others, it is possible to have HD cue with same property as LD if you make HD cue with smaller dia say 14 mm LD, vs 12 mm for HD shaft, so tip size is a factor too. Also a factor how much tip of english you are using, and if you using parallel, VS BHE. Therefore one cannot really say this cue is better than that unless you are talking same test criteria, and only when a player is expert in applying all pool knowledge will he play better.

True you can use cue deflection property to make shots but that depends on many variables, shot must be hard hit to stun, or controlled stun, tip placement accuracy, distance between OB & CB, CB near rail -elevated, and few others as i stated in earlier post, with that many variables it takes a lot of time to get used to no matter what cue you use.

Naji, I think you have sidestepped my question, but thank you for your reply.

 

[cardiac kid]

Sorry folks, thought I was posting this in the Swanee thread. My apologies.

Think part of the problem is how we learn to play pool. It's also generational. Those of us who grew up watching Crane, Balsis, Mosconi, Cranfield, etc, learned to play three cushion. Not to be world champ but to understand the motion of the cue ball.

Since the advent of Texas Express, the need to understand three cushion or straight rail billiards and the diamond system has decreased (IMO). Get out your jump cue and voila! Not sure what this generation is being taught. Read and watched musings from Stan, Randy, Scott, CJ, JBr and others. Sometimes wish I was an early teen again and have the advantage of such great teachers.

Yes it was great to have Irving, Mike S., Larry H and some other great local players helping out. Learned mostly by watching, racking and listening. Don't remember ever having a formal structured lesson as some new players get today.

Oh well, the grass is always greener on the other side. That is till you get there. Sorry for the rambling.

Lyn

 

[naji]

Naji, I think you have sidestepped my question, but thank you for your reply.

Kind of, but really hard to answer your question, so many variables involved. If you looking for how many inches , then we have to define many other factors lets assume all factors the same, then, in general LD on a spot shot, CB at head string, like shot described in item # 4 in my previous post (no stun), will deflect CB such that OB miss pocket by a ball to a ball and 1/2 width, and HD cue will miss pocket by three balls or more width, with 2 tips for both. Just not to mix, i mean by LD cue is cue that causes CB to deflect less than a HD cue for simplicity. I do not mean actual cue deflection which is opposite to CB deflection.
.

 

[CJ Wiley]

If a player can't hit center ball EVERY time, they are experiencing deflection

Totally untrue. Predator does NOT have zero deflection. It does however have less deflection than a standard maple shaft. Ask Mike Massey if you don't believe me. In my friend's basement Mike demonstrated this by shooting from one end of the table to the other end - with a non LD shaft and a Predator shaft. He stated that where a regular shaft may deflect 3 inches, a Predator shaft may deflect half of that, or 1.5 inches, and demonstrated this.

After watching CJ's video on a TOI, I figured out why players using english play better with a Predator. That's because (like the old me) they don't realize what deflection is doing to their shots.

For example, let's take a shot that is one inch off the rail half way up from the corner pocket to the side pocket. The cue ball is between the head spot and the same side rail. You are going to hit the shot with low outside english at medium speed. Most average players like me will bang the object ball into the rail even before it hits the corner pocket, attributing the miss to a bad stroke or bad aiming, when in fact it is the deflection that is causing this. And don't give me this crap where your mind will adjust for all this subconciously. When this average player (like me) starts using a Predator he will start making this shot a greater percentage of the time because of less deflection.

I went over to the Omega Tour event last night in Dallas to help a player, Jeff, with his consistency. He had an OB Shaft/McDermott Cue and I used it to show him some things and before long there were several people watching and participating with questions and comments.

We ended up doing a full TOI Presentation and I shot EVERY shot with Jeff's cue. Maybe Jeff will read this and join in, however, I made most every shot using his cue with TOI. These cues do deflect, maybe they are more consistent in doing so, I would have to do more research to know.

I could tell it deflected very little, and it didn't matter, I just made sure to acceleration on each shot to produce the slight deflection. My cue is basically a "low deflection" cue, however, it's because of the conical taper that I've done myself through the years of sanding and "tinkering" until it was just right.

My point is, no matter if you use a "low deflection" shaft or not, you still need to understand how deflection works and USE it to your advantage. If not it will be a disadvantage because you won't know if you're missing due to deflection or not.

A pro level players may be able to hit the center with some consistency, but a beginner will not. This means a beginner to intermediate player will ALWAYS be deflecting shots while trying to run a rack. This is why I strongly urge anyone to at least get a working knowledge of what TOI or TOO does when contacting the cue ball. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[mantis99]

You're not supposed to go up a ball... If you bought it expecting that, you were fed some hype. Hopefully the original poster reads all this and doesn't fall into the same trap. The way to get a ball better is practice, it's not something you can buy at Seybert's.

They only change your line of aim on spin shots. Before switching back decide if that's important to you, or if you are happy aiming the way you did with the maple.


Posted from Azbilliards.com App for Android

I certainly didn't expect to go up a ball. I simply meant to tell the op that he should not expect anything like that as his post is asking.

 

[SkinsKaos]

The predator didnt help my game but practice sure did

 

[RunEm]

Think I'm gonna just put new tip on my custom and keep it what about a ob shaft vs predator?

 

[skogstokig]

yes, my game improved rapidly after getting a 314 (precat) shaft to my lucasi butt. i can't play with any other type of shaft, although i'm not totally satisfied with the balance of the cue atm. i have since tried meucci old shaft, expensive custom cues, mcdermott (old school), viking, predator z, even 2nd gen 314. it's just plain impossible to change shaft.

this weekend i whacked the cue on the table after missing a three-railer that would have taken me to the final. i don't know if i dented it, but if i did i'll be looking for a new precat 314.

 

[RunEm]

Would anyone take a OB over a predator 314 2 and why?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Go with what's natural is what I would always recommend.

Think I'm gonna just put new tip on my custom and keep it what about a ob shaft vs predator?

Yes, make sure you have a really good tip, that's what's contacting the cue ball, so it's vitally important.

You can also take your tip "in" a bit so it's smaller and this will create less deflection, however, deflection is NOT a bad thing, without deflection my game would go down two levels immediately because I use it to create zones in the pocket and for position.

The human eye just doesn't adapt to straight lines as well as having curvature. Think about throwing any ball, there's always an arch or a curve, same thing with tennis, bowling, golf, etc. Everything we deal with as a kid growing up in sports/games had a curve or arch to them.

This is also desirable in pool and I could write an entire book on the "why's" and "how's". Go with what's natural is what I would always recommend. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[Donkey Bruce]

Yes, make sure you have a really good tip, that's what's contacting the cue ball, so it's vitally important.

You can also take your tip "in" a bit so it's smaller and this will create less deflection, however, deflection is NOT a bad thing, without deflection my game would go down two levels immediately because I use it to create zones in the pocket and for position.

The human eye just doesn't adapt to straight lines as well as having curvature. Think about throwing any ball, there's always an arch or a curve, same thing with tennis, bowling, golf, etc. Everything we deal with as a kid growing up in sports/games had a curve or arch to them.

This is also desirable in pool and I could write an entire book on the "why's" and "how's". Go with what's natural is what I would always recommend. 'The Game is the Teacher'

What does deflection have to do with curvature?

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

 

[RunEm]

Is there a big diff from a soft tip too a hard I seem too shoot a lot better with a hard tip not sure if its in my head or whatt what's ur guys thought on this?

 

[CJ Wiley]

They alter the straight line of a moving ball's path

What does deflection have to do with curvature?

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

They alter the straight line of a moving ball's path, and either go away from the target or towards the target. The "trick" is to learn to control them, and use this naturally to create a "zone" going towards the desired outcome.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The feedback from the contact of the cue ball is important

Is there a big diff from a soft tip too a hard I seem too shoot a lot better with a hard tip not sure if its in my head or whatt what's ur guys thought on this?

Of course this is a personal preference, I like a harder tip because it feels more like I"m contacting the cue ball, rather than a "rubber ball". The feedback from the contact of the cue ball is important and I prefer it to be as realistic to what I"m hitting as possible.

 

[RunEm]

Of course this is a personal preference, I like a harder tip because it feels more like I"m contacting the cue ball, rather than a "rubber ball". The feedback from the contact of the cue ball is important and I prefer it to be as realistic to what I"m hitting as possible.

What are the better hard tips so I know what too buy?