Did Mark Wilson finally kill "aiming systems" ?

Bob Jewett said:
I'd say all parts of the game rely on a good stroke. If you can't send the cue ball where you intend consistently, not much is going to work and it will be really hard to get better.

I remember watching someone teach a banking system to a relative beginner. The beginner had a stroke that looked like a seizure -- he usually hit the object ball on the correct side. I'm not sure why the beginner wanted a banking lesson or why the "teacher" thought it would be useful.
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Thia reminds me of my first lesson with Bert.
I told him I needed to work on my 9ball break.
He threw some balls on the table and asked me to run them out.
After 3 failed attempts he asked why I would want to break better when I can't even run out.
I will just be making it easier for my opponent to run out if I break better.
He then said he would not show me how to break better but if I wanted to take lessons to learn how to play the game right, we could get started -or something to that effect.
He was right.
 
You obviously need to develop your own method of finding the correct OB contact point for ANY pool instruction to make sense - that is a given and an assumption that forms the basis for all of Mark’s instruction in the book!!!
I will add to this - it makes no sense at all to worry about aiming if you cannot deliver the cue tip very consistently to your desired aim point - furthermore - Mark’s premise is you need to deliver the cue tip to the precise MM on the CB at the desired speed And in a straight line to the desired OB contact point - PROs do this way more than any amateur- THIS is what Mark is drilling into your head!! AIM point means nothing if you can’t get the cue tip to the correct desired spot on the CB every time - in line with your desired OB contact point.
 
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THE instructor that made the greatest impact IMO is Jerry Briesath. Sadly he does not get the recognition he deserves, again IMO!!

Here is a link to my point..

Jerry Briesath's Pool School - About Jerry

Jerry Briesath's Pool School offers pool lessons and instruction by BCA MASTER INSTRUCTOR, Jerry Briesath. Professional Billiard lessons on dvd and tips, guidance and knowledge from an internationally recognized Master Billiards player.
www.thepoolschool.com
 
I feel like a number of fundamentals have to come together. I agree that a bad stroke undermines everything else. But you wouldn’t say that kills the importance of picking patterns, addressing problems and managing angles. It also doesn’t kill the importance of aiming.

You need to find the shooting line so that you can align your stance and stroke to it. Everyone has an approach to finding that. There are a large number of ways to do that. Some are more systematic and some are more just a merging of visualization and experience. But nobody walks up to the ball haphazardly. Even those with “automatic aiming” will make it seem like they are, but again, that’s their experience and skill making that part of the process effortless. Whether you claim to have an aiming system or not, you do have an approach to aiming. Whatever that is, nobody has killed the fact that it’s part of the process and that newbies can be taught information about it that they can leverage to improve their game. And it doesn’t end the arguments over the merits of one approach vs. another.

But yeah, there’s certainly no shortage of people still trying to chase the aiming dragon that don’t realize their stroke is the primary factor in their failures, not their aiming. No argument there.
 
Quesports said:
THE instructor that made the greatest impact IMO is Jerry Briesath. Sadly he does not get the recognition he deserves, again IMO!!

Here is a link to my point..

Jerry Briesath's Pool School - About Jerry

Jerry Briesath's Pool School offers pool lessons and instruction by BCA MASTER INSTRUCTOR, Jerry Briesath. Professional Billiard lessons on dvd and tips, guidance and knowledge from an internationally recognized Master Billiards player.
www.thepoolschool.com
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I spent 3 days 1 on 1 with Jerry in Madison. Had to park a few blocks down the street, on top of a building, and the pool room was upstairs in some building on a busy street. During breaks I sat at the bar discussing pool and other things with Larry Nevel. Can’t remember the name of the place but I had a great time and learned a lot!
 
NineballTom said:
I doubt that there are many pros that would deny Mark's logic that almost all missed shots are from stroke or stance issues. I think a good amount of pros are into aiming systems because they sell, not because they actually are super into them.

Something doesn't really add up with aiming systems. If multiple aiming systems work but only with good stance and stroke, and none of them work without good stance and stroke....... the emphasis needs to be on stance and stroke and not any given aiming system. If there was an infallible aiming system, wouldn't we just all adopt it and be better players?
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Venmo me $9.99 and I will give you my aiming system. You are 𝑔𝓊𝒶𝓇𝒶𝓃𝓉𝑒𝑒𝒹 to never miss a shot again! ;)
 
jtompilot said:
Tiger Woods received lessons even when no one one planet was on par with him. Knowledge is completely different than talent and execution. I know I fall short on all three😝
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Spot on - there are 1,000 fully knowledgeable people in sports for every one pro with superior talent and execution in every possible situation- It don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that swing!
 
NineballTom said:
A friend of mine recently suggested that I watch the Mark Wilson tutorials on YouTube. He said something in one of those videos that really stood out to me. Basically he said that there are only 2 differences between an average player and a pro player:

1. A pro player has a straighter, more fluid stroke
2. A pro player has a better and more repeatable stance

He also pointed out that if you are an experienced pool player, you very rarely miss shots because of your aim. You miss shots because of a breakdown in your stance or stroke.


If all those things are true, especially the last one, doesn't that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of aiming systems? If an aiming system only works if your stance and stroke are good, and no aiming system can salvage a bad stroke or stance, why worry about aiming systems?

Aiming systems sell, but they don't fix anything. The only way to make more shots is to improve your fundamentals; your aim is fine, my friends.
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Every shot has a feel to it.
Good players know when warming up to room/table/cloth/ball conditions they must develop a shot/speed/cushion line of feel.
A relationship that must be realized thru warm up shot execution.
Is the cue ball coming 4' or 10'?
When I draw cross side/two rails, how does that feel?.
It's a Good reason to know the cue ball in ''play''.
 
tim913 said:
I spent 3 days 1 on 1 with Jerry in Madison. Had to park a few blocks down the street, on top of a building, and the pool room was upstairs in some building on a busy street. During breaks I sat at the bar discussing pool and other things with Larry Nevel. Can’t remember the name of the place but I had a great time and learned a lot!
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Cue-Nique Billiards
317 W. Gorham St.

just a few blocks from the state capitol building
 
JolietJames said:
Tiger Woods had Hank Haney as a coach for years. I don't recall Haney on the pro tour.
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Pool is apparently different than every other sport. Every time an instructor or coach is mentioned someone shits all over them because they weren't multiple world champions.

My uncle was the head pitching coach for a major league team. He played zero games in the majors.

Red Auerbach played one pro game and scored one point.

Great players in any sport probably aren't the best teachers, they learned things so instinctively that they generally can't put it into words, or they were so freakishly athletic that nobody else could do what they did.
 
NineballTom said:
A friend of mine recently suggested that I watch the Mark Wilson tutorials on YouTube. He said something in one of those videos that really stood out to me. Basically he said that there are only 2 differences between an average player and a pro player:

1. A pro player has a straighter, more fluid stroke
2. A pro player has a better and more repeatable stance

He also pointed out that if you are an experienced pool player, you very rarely miss shots because of your aim. You miss shots because of a breakdown in your stance or stroke.


If all those things are true, especially the last one, doesn't that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of aiming systems? If an aiming system only works if your stance and stroke are good, and no aiming system can salvage a bad stroke or stance, why worry about aiming systems?

Aiming systems sell, but they don't fix anything. The only way to make more shots is to improve your fundamentals; your aim is fine, my friends.
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Uh, no. You need to know where to point all that finely crafted machinery.
 
tim913 said:
I spent 3 days 1 on 1 with Jerry in Madison. Had to park a few blocks down the street, on top of a building, and the pool room was upstairs in some building on a busy street. During breaks I sat at the bar discussing pool and other things with Larry Nevel. Can’t remember the name of the place but I had a great time and learned a lot!
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I took a three day group class taught by Jerry’s protégés. Randy Goettlicher and Scott Lee (rip to a wonderful guy). Best money I ever spent on pool instruction. Scott and I remained friends and used to get together when he came to Chicago to visit his Mom.

His passing was a big loss to the pool community…
 
NineballTom said:
A friend of mine recently suggested that I watch the Mark Wilson tutorials on YouTube. He said something in one of those videos that really stood out to me. Basically he said that there are only 2 differences between an average player and a pro player:

1. A pro player has a straighter, more fluid stroke
2. A pro player has a better and more repeatable stance

He also pointed out that if you are an experienced pool player, you very rarely miss shots because of your aim. You miss shots because of a breakdown in your stance or stroke.


If all those things are true, especially the last one, doesn't that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin of aiming systems? If an aiming system only works if your stance and stroke are good, and no aiming system can salvage a bad stroke or stance, why worry about aiming systems?

Aiming systems sell, but they don't fix anything. The only way to make more shots is to improve your fundamentals; your aim is fine, my friends.
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Well there are lots of people standing over the ball, holding the cue in all kinda ways, so does he mean address the ball the same way all the time so that it becomes automatic? He can't mean everybody should stand the same way or thats theres a better way to stand for everybody?

Theres to many Pro's doing it to many ways for that to be accurate.
 
A lot of thoughts reading through this thread….
Mark Wilson is correct when he says that a seasoned player who has played a lot misses a shot, it’s usually due to a break down of fundamentals. Another Az poster said it well, line up a long straight in shot where aim is obvious and see how many times you miss. Well said whoever made the post ( I was to lazy to look back and see)

We all have played with that “pretty good” player, who after every miss has an excuse.
-The table rolled off
-Did you see that skid ?
-I hit that so clean, I have no idea how that rattled..
Those players all lack accountability, and rightfully so will never get to a better level. If they would just watch the reaction of the cue ball and ADMIT that they did something wrong and learn from their mistake instead of making excuses.

I head a quote once that fits in all aspects of life, and also in this instance… Arrogance is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity.

All in all, if people would just admit that they missed a shot from a poor stroke/fundamentals they would be better off learning from their mistakes.
 
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