Did Simonis cloth change the game?

M

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I quit playing in the 80's and picked it up again a few years ago. The biggest change I noticed was the cloth. It was much faster and took a lot of the draw stroke out of position play. Babying the ball and bunting shots was easier than going the extra rails. :poke:

It became easier to move the cue ball around the table, too. Instead of a power game, :smash: I've switched over to a flatter stroke and try to play like Alex and Archer. Short and sweet.

Anybody else see this change in the game? Do you like it?

Best,
Mike
 
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Yes, it's alot different than the nappy and slower cloth.

Even Simonis cloth itself is different than it was in the 90s. It's much faster now.

Don't have to have near as much stroke as then. You can also get a little straighter in on your shots and still have enough angle to get to the next one.
 
If it wasn't for Simonis and Diamond Earl might well be the Emperor of China by now.... I always felt like I was several balls better on the slower cloth because I had a stronger stroke than most players and could shoot shots others had to play safe on.... Babying balls was for sissies back in the day.....
 
The Renfro said:
If it wasn't for Simonis and Diamond Earl might well be the Emperor of China by now.... I always felt like I was several balls better on the slower cloth because I had a stronger stroke than most players and could shoot shots others had to play safe on.... Babying balls was for sissies back in the day.....
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A big part of my game was a power stroke that really isn't needed today. I rolled out to stroke shots that others would duck. The faster cloth allows the cue ball to travel greater distances with much less effort.

In the past ten years or so, the quality of women's pool has improved greatly. Men dominated more with the physical power necessary to move the rock especially in the rotation games. The faster cloth has equalized this disparity somewhat and the men have had to learn how to finesse more parts of the game.

Instead of drawing the cue ball three rails, I baby balls with inside english. I roll into position zones with a spinning "Efren" type cue ball instead of an Earl stroke. I use a flat cue ball with quick spin that kills as soon as it hits the object ball. Gone are the four or five rail pos shots you had in the arsenal.

I wonder if these guys using the really light cue sticks are on to something? Or should Simonis make a heavier cloth to bridge the gap between the old and new? Being the industry leader has led the rest of the cloth manufacturers down the same path. I think they should consider an in between cloth and leave the greased felt for the billiards players.

Best,
Mike
 
Didn't the cloth change when the game on TV changed from straight pool and 8-ball to 9-ball? When did Simonis 860 come out?
 
Mikjary said:
I wonder if these guys using the really light cue sticks are on to something? Or should Simonis make a heavier cloth to bridge the gap between the old and new? Being the industry leader has led the rest of the cloth manufacturers down the same path. I think they should consider an in between cloth and leave the greased felt for the billiards players.

Best,
Mike
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I too struggle with the faster simonis cloth. Simonis has two grades of cloth and they are 760 and 860! Many do not know the difference but I will try to explain.

The cloth is made up of wool and nylon fibers. The numbers mean that the cloth is either 80 percent wool and 20 percent nylon for the 860! While 760 is 70 percent wool and 30 percent nylon.

This distinction is important because NYLON has a very LOW friction coefficient! While WOOL has a very HIGH friction coefficient!

The addition of NYLON made for greater durablity at the expense of the game. The OLD cloth was 100 percent WOOL and much slower.

New balls and new cloth make it difficult to control the cue ball because the friction coefficient varies so much from table to table.

For an example most good pool rooms change the cloth once every year or two. The two years worth of wear on the wool decreases the friction and causes the table to play faster.

The cloth also picks up dirt and it gets caught in the fibers and slows the speed of play.

I have found the tip selection to be BIG in adjusting to the faster surface. The harder tip decreases the amount of english and adjust your speed control. I was into lepro tips for nappy cloth and found snipers great! On the slick stuff.

I have a light stick but never tried it on those slick conditions as a means of adjustment but I will certainly give it a try.

Kd

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
Cloth is faster. Rails are faster. The pockets are much tighter also. If 4 1/2" pro-cut pockets were on the old slow tables with the old rails there would be a lot of balls jawed with those power strokes to go 4 and 5 rails for position. Johnnyt
 
I've had 860 HR on my table for a year now with steady play. If anything, I've noticed a slight reduction in speed. As it wears I will probably get some of the speed back.

The newer balls seem to slide a bit more before they start to roll. I dig into the cue ball a bit more and have actually developed two different draw strokes for english. One stroke grabs quicker and swerves the cue ball more while my normal stroke lets the cue ball follow a more natural line.

Coming back to the game let me see the distinct differences in the newer styles of play most pros were using. The longer strokes have mostly been altered slightly to shorter hand and wrist movements. Watch Johnny Archer's finish from behind closely. If you watch matches from the 80's you can see this adjustment more in the older pros.

Tighter pockets do slow the game down and don't take power strokes well. This is very true. And live rails add to the speed of the table. Despite these changes, was there any opposition to the change in cloth when it happened? I wasn't playing then. Was it a gradual change and then changed again to an even faster cloth?

Best,
Mike
 
Same boat

Mikjary said:
I quit playing in the 80's and picked it up again a few years ago. The biggest change I noticed was the cloth. It was much faster and took a lot of the draw stroke out of position play. Babying the ball and bunting shots was easier than going the extra rails. :poke:

It became easier to move the cue ball around the table, too. Instead of a power game, :smash: I've switched over to a flatter stroke and try to play like Alex and Archer. Short and sweet.

Anybody else see this change in the game? Do you like it?

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

I quit in about 83-84 when I got too busy working with horses to play. Played a little around 89-90 but tried to really pick it up again a few years back myself. When I find an old table with half-dead rails my game jumps a bunch. A real revelation was when I played on some barboxes that had been in storage from the early eighties and were drug out cloth and all. First thing I noticed was the cloth on those tables was abrasive as hell on my bridge hand, like resting my hand on a scotchbrite pad. The other thing I realized is that I played much closer to my old speed. The tables I played on in the seventies and eighties were mostly old when I played on them then.

It finally dawned on me that I had never played on this equipment before so I wasn't really trying to get my old game back but an all new one. It is rare that I'm happy with my speed control in rotation games when I'm playing on a nine footer, usually four or five year old post Katrina Diamonds. I'm not happy with the cheap cloth that balls up all over the place but there is no question that I play better with slower cloth and slower rails. Not the same thing as saying slower cloth and rails are better, just that they suit my stroke better. I don't use cue weight to control speed and I have a hard time calibrating my muscles finely enough for these touchy new tables. The old tables I played on might have been a bit touchier when they were new too but the heat and humidity down here was brutal on the old rail rubber I believe.

Hu
 
The Renfro said:
If it wasn't for Simonis and Diamond Earl might well be the Emperor of China by now.... I always felt like I was several balls better on the slower cloth because I had a stronger stroke than most players and could shoot shots others had to play safe on.... Babying balls was for sissies back in the day.....
Click to expand...

Simonis has changed my game cuz I can't draw back to the rail and get shape like I used to - I really miss doing that.

On the other hand, it was difficult to get used to the sliding of the balls on a brand new nappy cloth when the table was just recovered - I had to move to a table with a worn in nappy cloth to regain control.

A newly covered table with Simonis plays about the same from the git go - less sliding.

I love it when I travel and find a table with the nappy cloth and new rail/rubber - that is hard to find in LA anymore.


"...The biggest change I noticed was the cloth. It was much faster and took a lot of the draw stroke out of position play."..

Good question Mike.

Be well all.:thumbup:
 
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