Different tables different deflection?

donny mills

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?
 

victorl

Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
It could be the humidity, but I would expect the humidity to be higher in a packed room which would lead to slightly more contact throw and cause thin cuts to be undercut, not overcut as you have described.
 

thefonz

It's not me...it's my ADD
Silver Member
is it the fries?

age of the cloth, and whether the place has a deep fryer with no range hood makes a big difference.
 

champ2107

Banned
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?

I thought all you pro pool players new everything there is to know about pool :)
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
table cloth bite...

I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?

You know how some tables you can more easily do slight masse shots and others are a *****@@@@????

Draw shots are easier on some tables too...

It's because the felt bites better or worse, that is the friction between the cloth and the balls are different, it can be as simple a reason as dirty cloth, for whatever reason it bites better on some tables than others.

The felt also (seems to me, I haven't done any real experimentation, just from experience and observation), has an effect on how the balls interact with each other, kind of like in a skid. So even if you clean the balls every rack, the dirt on the felt can also cause a similar effect...


Again, this is just my opinion as I haven't done any experiments to test the theory...

Jaden
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?

It is usually the cloth. Some billiard mechanics don't pull it tight enough...
..also, age and humidity will loosen the cloth.
If the cloth is loose, the outside english will masse, resulting in an over-cut.

I'm assuming you are playing on quality tables and cloth.
Cheap cloth and light tables are really tricky..they influence ball reaction
a lot.
 

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
I think the humidity probably causes the table to play a little slower which in turn causes the cue ball to swerve a little bit more on its path to the object ball. Its only a slight difference, but it can cause the ball to miss if you were already on the thin side of the pocket. Hitting a little bit harder than I normally would usually solves this problem for me.
 

onepocketron

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The condition of the cloth (new, old, dirty, clean) can make a big difference. Also humidity. These factors will also make bank shots go long or short.
 

mfinkelstein3

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Different Tables

Could be different table heights, different ball cleaners, different cue ball sizes, different cloths, different object balls. (People have been known to also only clean certain balls so some are slicker than others, but I don't think that's what is going on.)

If you are using the same balls/cue ball and cleaner, I'd look at the height of the table and the cloth as the likely conditions.

I'm thinking height because on the table you are overcutting on with outside spin, you may be hitting down just a little more causing the cue ball to curve a bit more.

Hope that helps and Happy Holidays.
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?

We go through the same thing here in San Antonio where the humidity gets pretty high. In the drier places it seems the cue ball plays lighter and I tend to over cut balls too. Where it is slightly more himid the cue ball feels heavier and I seem to need more stroke to get the cue ball around and avoid scratches etc. Most of these places use the same coverings and same cue balls.
It does seem though that late at night things seem to even out.
Then again, maybe it's just my 60 year old stroke too.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?
If the cloth is slippery, the curve on side spin shots will be delayed and you will appear to have more deflection or squirt. Almost certainly the squirt measured right off the tip will be the same since the cloth should have very little effect on that for a nearly level cue stick.

On sticky cloth, the spin takes immediately (relatively) and you will get a thinner hit with outside english. To test this, try greasing up the cue ball with either silicone spray or hard paste wax and see if the cut angles don't either come back or actually go to the other side of what you expect.
 

The Chinchilla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the cloth is slippery, the curve on side spin shots will be delayed and you will appear to have more deflection or squirt. Almost certainly the squirt measured right off the tip will be the same since the cloth should have very little effect on that for a nearly level cue stick.

On sticky cloth, the spin takes immediately (relatively) and you will get a thinner hit with outside english. To test this, try greasing up the cue ball with either silicone spray or hard paste wax and see if the cut angles don't either come back or actually go to the other side of what you expect.

I heard Danny Harriman in a commentary swear that new cloth deflects more (due to less friction). It is hard for me to imagine there is that much of a difference there in actual deflection. I think there could be something to what danny says myself. It's hard to say :confused:

On a more pragmatic note, thinking about this stuff (too much) is no good if you ask me. If you are playing good you will be doing just that no matter the cloth.
 

Banks

Banned
You know how some tables you can more easily do slight masse shots and others are a *****@@@@????

Draw shots are easier on some tables too...

It's because the felt bites better or worse, that is the friction between the cloth and the balls are different, it can be as simple a reason as dirty cloth, for whatever reason it bites better on some tables than others.

The felt also (seems to me, I haven't done any real experimentation, just from experience and observation), has an effect on how the balls interact with each other, kind of like in a skid. So even if you clean the balls every rack, the dirt on the felt can also cause a similar effect...


Again, this is just my opinion as I haven't done any experiments to test the theory...

Jaden

That's the experience I've had with the tables at two bars next to each other. At one, the owner takes care of the old valleys he's got and cleans the balls.. they play decent. At the other, the felt's not that good and nothing is cleaned, so the felt grabs the balls quicker and you can overspin shots real easy.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?
keep practicing, young fella. you'll get there one day!
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
I only play pool in a handful of places and I've noticed that two of these places I tend to over cut cut shots when using a little outside English. This happens to me at qmasters at the end of the week when it's packed in there. And it happens on this boingy gold crown here in my home town. I use the same set of balls everywhere though.

Does anyone know why?

The cue ball deflection itself won't change as long as the balls and cue are the same.

There are two forces at work that can change the shot depending on the conditions:

- The amount the cue ball swerves will change from cloth to cloth. A wet, nappy cloth will make the cue ball grab earlier than a dry, slick cloth, so it will swerve earlier which can cause more swerve and an overcut with outside.

- The humidity will cause more spin throw, which will cause an overcut with outside.

Humidity might affect chalk and tips too for all I know - I don't know if that causes more spin, but maybe. I notice when I play in humid conditions, I have to back off on the spin or the cue ball does a lot more than I expect it to. It also feels like my tip is gripping better too.

Chris
 
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SouthernDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You know more about this game than I do, but if it always happens to you at these places only, probably the mechanic. I'm sure that you notice it much more than us mere mortals, so I'm sure that there is something going on there.
Oh, maybe also the the way the slate is machined.
 
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