digital vs machinist levels
- Thread starter Majic
- Start date
what brand is it?
There IS such a thing as overkill when it comes to levels for pool tables. Slate is only ground to flatness to within .0020...so anything that reads more sensitive than the flatness of the slate is a waste of money as far as I'm concerned, though levels that read more accurate than that do have there purpose...it's just not leveling slates
The human ear can hear frequency's between 20Hz-20kHz, speakers in the 70's and 80's use to be marketed as better than everyone else
because they could play sounds between 5Hz-50kHz, now no one today uses that as a sales pitch because you can't hear the difference anyway...so who cares. So today manufactures of speakers are more concerned with making speakers better that produce the sounds the human ear can hear, now that means something to the buyers.
Levels are the same way, just because you have a level that'll show you a table is waaaaaaaaaay out of level according to the level you placed on the table...don't mean it's out of level enough to cause a ball to roll off. So, how accurate does the level have to be to level a slate to where no balls roll off...at least as accurate as the slate is ground flat...to within .+ or - .0020 so a level that is accurate to within .005 per 12' of elevation like a Starrett 8" is far more accurate than a 4' carpenters level, anything else that reads more accurate than .005 is a waste of money...IMO!
Glen
because they could play sounds between 5Hz-50kHz, now no one today uses that as a sales pitch because you can't hear the difference anyway...so who cares. So today manufactures of speakers are more concerned with making speakers better that produce the sounds the human ear can hear, now that means something to the buyers.
Levels are the same way, just because you have a level that'll show you a table is waaaaaaaaaay out of level according to the level you placed on the table...don't mean it's out of level enough to cause a ball to roll off. So, how accurate does the level have to be to level a slate to where no balls roll off...at least as accurate as the slate is ground flat...to within .+ or - .0020 so a level that is accurate to within .005 per 12' of elevation like a Starrett 8" is far more accurate than a 4' carpenters level, anything else that reads more accurate than .005 is a waste of money...IMO!
Glen
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There IS such a thing as overkill when it comes to levels for pool tables. Slate is only ground to flatness to within .0020...so anything that reads more sensitive than the flatness of the slate is a waste of money as far as I'm concerned, though levels that read more accurate than that do have there purpose...it's just not leveling slates
thats flatness not levelness
What do you want flatness or true level?... and why since this is your post you started? What tolerance are you looking for and do the tools have to be iso 2009 certified or can a 2x4 surfaced all for sides be used as a straight edge to line up all 3 pieces of slate for flatness not levelness.. this way your table is flat but not level.. balls roll true over here and over there but not were you aimed on a slow roll with or with out cloth.
SO WHICH IS BETTER AND WHY FLAT OR LEVEL?????????
It must be Magic if flat is level..
Craig
OTLB
Banned
before it can be level it must be flat. Using long levels and straight edges are great in combination with a feeler gauge. Short levels tell you nothing but a small picture, unless you have a box full of them. Having one level doesn't permit you the advantages of many levels. Then your forced to write things down and analyze. Its way easier to just look at the big picture.
The bubble may be centered between the lines but its not perfectly even. A more accurate level may not read perfect but since its more accurate you can see just how accurate it is. This is why you use a machinist level to begin with, because its more accurate. So now its not good because it more accurate? Wrong!
Slate is made to a std but its not.002 that I have seen, isn't Brunswick .01?
To me, leveling a table starts with a macro, then micro leveling and then a final check back to macro. I think any level that is accurate is good. If you can see with the most accurate levels as in the pic attached that everything is good and then you take them off and put 8 inch levels in dif spots and they say its not, what do you think is right???
The bubble may be centered between the lines but its not perfectly even. A more accurate level may not read perfect but since its more accurate you can see just how accurate it is. This is why you use a machinist level to begin with, because its more accurate. So now its not good because it more accurate? Wrong!
Slate is made to a std but its not.002 that I have seen, isn't Brunswick .01?
To me, leveling a table starts with a macro, then micro leveling and then a final check back to macro. I think any level that is accurate is good. If you can see with the most accurate levels as in the pic attached that everything is good and then you take them off and put 8 inch levels in dif spots and they say its not, what do you think is right???
Attachments
the reason all your levels have different reading is because the shape of that one piece of slate. that table might be the most level thing in the world but those scales wouldn't show it. Its all about the high points on the three different pieces of slate. which would require a long ass level so as far as a pool table goes a 4 or 8 foot carpenters level would work if you have a good eye. I would make sure to buy a quality one and stone off any burrs on the contact surface. that sucks slate is only ground to a .010 flatness that is horrible for grinding even something that large
maybe you should ask Glen
Flatness is as important as being level. When the slate is ground flat it isn't measured with a level, it is measured with a Co-ordinate measuring machine to determine the high and low spots. Not a cheap device byh any means. The manufacturer is assuring the customer of the highest quality slate with his measuirng methods. Without flat slate the leveling process is moot. You can have a piece of slate that is flat as can be and be out of level using inferior levels. If the manufacturer spends thousands of dollars measuring the flatness then why shouldn't you use the most accurate level possible providing the cost is within reason.
you would need to recreate the working conditions when the slate was tested at time of manufacture. Slate moves with moisture, bends if not stored right, twists if the frame is not flat or level, wood frame moves from tempature and moisture.
Majic how would you install a table moves from Las Vages stored for 1 yr there then shipped over sea's to Hawaii or Gaum and installed. How much time do you let it acclamate to the new surroundings before you ( majic ) install it ?
2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, and when do yuou come back to recheck for any shifts from settlement or shrinkage/ swelling of the slate and frame?
Factory conditions are in no way close to home or business conditions across the world and most sellers store there slate outdoors in the rain & sun shine from lack of education to lack of proper respect for the equipment they sell to customers.
Everyinstall is a test not an assembly for $200+ if your a hack or man with 20+ yrs of experience.. No offence to the fellow installers but MAJIC show us some of your pictures from installs or how to handle missmatched slates with pins and all 3 are a differrent thickness slate with the pins not linnuing up?
Craig
Majic how would you install a table moves from Las Vages stored for 1 yr there then shipped over sea's to Hawaii or Gaum and installed. How much time do you let it acclamate to the new surroundings before you ( majic ) install it ?
2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, and when do yuou come back to recheck for any shifts from settlement or shrinkage/ swelling of the slate and frame?
Factory conditions are in no way close to home or business conditions across the world and most sellers store there slate outdoors in the rain & sun shine from lack of education to lack of proper respect for the equipment they sell to customers.
Everyinstall is a test not an assembly for $200+ if your a hack or man with 20+ yrs of experience.. No offence to the fellow installers but MAJIC show us some of your pictures from installs or how to handle missmatched slates with pins and all 3 are a differrent thickness slate with the pins not linnuing up?
Craig