Do even the most well respected cue makers make cues with uneven points, at times?

J

justinb386

Banned
I am curious if having a custom cue with uneven points hurts the resale value of of it, or does that depend on who made the cue?

I never liked seeing cues with uneven points.

I like all of the points to at least be fairly even (like on a 4 point cue with veneers, for example).

A really nice 4 point custom cue, with veneers (from a cue maker that is known and well respected) should have fairly even points going around the cue, right?

Or am I wrong, and it is not that uncommon for a custom to have uneven points?

Thanks for any opinions about this.
 
I think they should be pretty close to even. Unless it's done on a CNC none are likely perfectly even if you measure finely enough. I've often heard within 1/4" to be an acceptable range but that is still going to be noticeable to the eye I think.

It's definitely something I notice when looking at cues and I wouldn't knowingly buy one with uneven points. Not sure what happens on a custom ordered cue that shows up uneven...thankfully the only cue I've ever ordered has nice even points.
 
Black Balled is correct, it's rare to have them absolutely dead even (in fact, some makers actually correct slight deviations with ink)...but anything more than about 1/8 inch is impossible to correct and will show. I've seen a couple of highly respected cue makers' cues that had some uneven points that were a bit of a shock to me, frankly. Most have that tiny variance that you can easily ignore. I've got one with a pretty big variance that I got several years ago and was my player for 3 years. I never noticed it until it was pointed out to me, and then it bugged me. There are tons of conversions out there with hugely uneven points, that no maker can fix, but hit great anyway.
 
slide13 said:
I think they should be pretty close to even. Unless it's done on a CNC none are likely perfectly even if you measure finely enough. I've often heard within 1/4" to be an acceptable range but that is still going to be noticeable to the eye I think.

It's definitely something I notice when looking at cues and I wouldn't knowingly buy one with uneven points. Not sure what happens on a custom ordered cue that shows up uneven...thankfully the only cue I've ever ordered has nice even points.
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I understand that perfectly even points are probably pretty rare. The Scruggs that I had, had very even points all the way around. But when you can notice the uneven points from a good distance away, then that is not good, correct?
 
justinb386 said:
I understand that perfectly even points are probably pretty rare. The Scruggs that I had, had very even points all the way around. But when you can notice the uneven points from a good distance away, then that is not good, correct?
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Yes, I would consider that not good. Especially when it's easy to tell from pictures that aren't even the close.

Now, that being said, it doesn't effect playability at all and I'm sure can happen to everybody. I've seen some cues from high end makers where I could see the points were off a little and there's no hard and fast rule on how much variation is too much so I'm sure it can be tricky for a cue maker to draw the line sometimes on what they let out their door.
 
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slide13 said:
Yes, I would consider that not good. Especially when it's easy to tell from pictures that aren't even the close.

Now, that being said, it doesn't effect playability at all and I'm sure can happen to everybody. I've seen some cues from high end makers where I could see the points were off a little and there's no hard and fast rule on how much variation is too much so I'm sure it can be tricky for a cue maker to draw the line sometimes on what they let out their door.
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This is not the reason but I've never been a fan of cues with points. For some reason its diff for sneaky petes??? Dont mind them. But overall if I were to build a totally custom cue it would have no points. ( something incredible coming soon 😁)
 
slide13 said:
I think they should be pretty close to even. Unless it's done on a CNC none are likely perfectly even if you measure finely enough. I've often heard within 1/4" to be an acceptable range but that is still going to be noticeable to the eye I think.

It's definitely something I notice when looking at cues and I wouldn't knowingly buy one with uneven points. Not sure what happens on a custom ordered cue that shows up uneven...thankfully the only cue I've ever ordered has nice even points.
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The points "done on a CNC" have nothing to do with whether the points are even when a cue is delivered.
 
I would want them as close as possible. However, in my opinion, that very small difference in length adds a bit of character to the cue. It is, after all, handmade. :)
 
MVPCues said:
The points "done on a CNC" have nothing to do with whether the points are even when a cue is delivered.
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Can you elaborate?

Knifed in short splice points end up being uneven because they're laid into the forearm at an angle and any slight discrepancy can have a large effect with this style it seems.

CNC flat bottom point are going to be even unless the forearm warps horribly I would think. I've never seen a Schon with uneven points.

But I'm not a cue maker and always willing to learn something new.
 
For the record as someone said these are handmade and I've always been ok with slight variations. Actually as also said adds character, no machine here son and its all good.
 
BmoreMoney said:
I like prob a lot of folks have no idea how points are made, could you possibly school us?
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Aside from full splice points (which is a whole different and more difficult build process) or CNC points (which are essentially just inlays like any other inlay) this will give you a pretty good idea how the points are made on the majority of cues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PV_PvZYP3o

He has tons of other videos if you want to see how most of the other aspects of cue making are done also.
https://www.youtube.com/user/dzcues/videos
 
Does current machinery and trickle down knowledge increase accurracy?

Buddy of mine is making forewoid and has learned form some or the best and he showed me some wacky shit.

It would seem the earlier comment about cnc having no greater chance at even would suggest no...?
 
Poolplaya9 said:
Aside from full splice points (which is a whole different and more difficult build process) or CNC points (which are essentially just inlays like any other inlay) this will give you a pretty good idea how the points are made on the majority of cues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PV_PvZYP3o

He has tons of other videos if you want to see how most of the other aspects of cue making are done also.
https://www.youtube.com/user/dzcues/videos
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I loved that video. I bet he is a master cue maker. Those are some super even points and veneers (very beautiful too).
 
Black-Balled said:
Does current machinery and trickle down knowledge increase accurracy?

Buddy of mine is making forewoid and has learned form some or the best and he showed me some wacky shit.

It would seem the earlier comment about cnc having no greater chance at even would suggest no...?
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I'm definitely no expert but I think I can give some general answers assuming I understand your questions correctly. As to whether current machinery is more accurate, yes and no. There are newer types of machines such as CNC for example which can be more accurate and more repeatable for many things. But as far as whether the lathes of today are more accurate than the lathes from decades ago, the lathes from way back when were plenty accurate. In fact many cue makers today actually prefer the older lathes, as least for a lot of things, and by older that can easily even mean 60-70 years old. You will find lots of old lathes in cue makers shops. As for knowledge that trickles down of course that is always a good thing and new ways of doing things are sometimes developed too. Sometimes those new ways make things a little better, sometimes they just make things easier.

Not sure who said CNC would have no greater chance of doing more even points but I disagree. The CNC will do perfectly even points every time and is exceptionally good at that. CNC points are really just inlays.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
Aside from full splice points (which is a whole different and more difficult build process) or CNC points (which are essentially just inlays like any other inlay) this will give you a pretty good idea how the points are made on the majority of cues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PV_PvZYP3o

He has tons of other videos if you want to see how most of the other aspects of cue making are done also.
https://www.youtube.com/user/dzcues/videos
Click to expand...
There is a little geometry you can see in the video that's required for the points to be even. If the square cuts in the forearm are not exactly to the same depth relative to the center of the lathe, the longest points can't be even. If the thicknesses of the veneers are not identical, the shorter points won't be even. If the turning center (axis of the forearm in the lathe) changes between the cuts and the turning, all the points will be uneven. If the points are not even, you could adjust the center slightly, take another cut and even out the points, but I have no idea how hard this would be to do.

In the video, the points look fine to me but if you look very, very closely as he does the final slow rotation, you can see that they are not perfect.

Personally, I don't care much about the evenness. It has little to do with how the cue plays.
 
Black-Balled said:
I Believe it is more rare for them to be even, actually.

Surprising you did not know that
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Well it shouldn't be on high end ,,, few yrs back my friend had a loaner black boar 6 point I have 2 6 points , one a Dan Dicola and a Tommy Trott , in case you don't know he was taught by Bo Neports dad Gene ,, we compared the 3 cues and the Trott had the best points , I was rather shocked that it was better than the Boar infact the Boar was 3rd best
I happend to know the owner of that Boar who has the largest collection of Boars known to man kind and asked him how that cue 8 k plus ever made it by the trash can
He was pretty offended and replied it's hard to get even top and bottom ,, I looked him in the eye and said it was pretty sad that my 400 dollar cue 8 retail had better points than a 8 k cue

1
 
To the best of my knowledge; currently, the absolute best of the cnc machines will in fact make points even within a very very small degree ( not detectible). However, the cnc's can not actually make a point, its a point that squares off. So to get a point that still has to be completed by hand, as NO MACHINE CAN currently do it.
 
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