Do even the most well respected cue makers make cues with uneven points, at times?
- Thread starter justinb386
- Start date
You conveniently left out the problem part. Every body knows what type of points that phrase refers to. That isn't the problem. The problem is they all have not come from a CNC machine (making the phrase inaccurate sometimes) and the phrase creates misinformation about what CNC does and cannot do.
Someone in this thread basically said it was impossible for a CNC machine to be used to construct spliced points.
A cuemaker can say: "I use my CNC machine to construct points in my cues.", and instead of someone replying with "What kind of points do you construct?", it is automatically assumed they are floating points with big round ends and the cuemaker is summarily dismissed. If the cuemaker says: "I use my CNC machine to construct spliced points", there are actually "CNC style points" police who would argue the cuemaker must not know what spliced points are. It was just a week ago a potential customer used the phrase "CNC points" when talking about a cue. That phrase is so ingrained in people, trying to explain to the customer I would use a CNC machine to make spliced points was simply risky. Best to just keep my mouth shut and let him talk, which further reinforces misinformation.
And on that point, since this thread was not really about this subject, I'm probably hijacking at this point and probably shouldn't have said anything.
To answer the OP's question..."maybe". I think I will throw out a few things as food for thought. These apply to full spliced cues, but dilemmas can be similar for half spliced.
A cuemaker is brought a pointed blank and asked to either convert it or finish it. Maybe it is a modern day blank or an antique house cue. The cuemaker looks and sees that the splicing quality is poor. He sees that the longest point and the shortest point are next to each other, not opposites. When this is the case, no amount of center hole offsetting to bump the points will even them out perfectly because they weren't put in right. The cuemaker knows this and has to make a decision.
1. I won't do this, sorry. I won't be able to get those points perfectly even...construction is bad. If I finish this for you, someone will look at this and say I should have practiced my craft more. So, I'm going to make less money this month since I do this for a living.
2. We have been friends for 10 years and I owe you a favor. Plus, I just love to build nice cues out of old sticks. Points will not be perfectly even ...look here why...they can't be...but it will still be a nice cue and play great. You are OK with that? Cool. Let's do it.
Or..
A cuemaker is brought a pointed blank and asked to either convert it or finish it. The cuemaker checks the diameters. It is close. Diameters are on the small end, but the blank is just oversized enough to finish out to his cue specs. The cuemaker then looks at the points. They are considerably uneven. He can bump them a little to bring them in closer, but because the blank is not very oversized, they won't be perfectly even. Just not enough meat on the bone. Insert choices 1 and 2 above. Customer would still be happy. What does the cuemaker do?
A customer arranges to have a cuemaker finish a full spliced blank that customer owns. He mails it to the cuemaker. It looks good, points relatively even. Cuemaker agrees to finish it. Cuemaker takes a cut on it. Cuemaker discovers chips are heavy...the woods are wet! Come to find out the customer acquired wet woods and had the blank made by someone without any seasoning. Cue warps literally 1/4 of an inch in the forearm area after the initial true up. That will make points very uneven and there is no guarantee they can be evened out perfectly over the course of the build. What does he do? Stop now and have the customer tell everyone cuemaker doesn't know what he is doing because he cut on a blank and then refused to finish it? Keep going with the build, the customer will still happy in the end (though it took longer than quoted because the woods were wet), but someone else will look at the cue and say the cuemaker needs to practice his craft some more?
These are reasons why the answer to your question could possibly be "maybe".
A cuemaker is brought a pointed blank and asked to either convert it or finish it. Maybe it is a modern day blank or an antique house cue. The cuemaker looks and sees that the splicing quality is poor. He sees that the longest point and the shortest point are next to each other, not opposites. When this is the case, no amount of center hole offsetting to bump the points will even them out perfectly because they weren't put in right. The cuemaker knows this and has to make a decision.
1. I won't do this, sorry. I won't be able to get those points perfectly even...construction is bad. If I finish this for you, someone will look at this and say I should have practiced my craft more. So, I'm going to make less money this month since I do this for a living.
2. We have been friends for 10 years and I owe you a favor. Plus, I just love to build nice cues out of old sticks. Points will not be perfectly even ...look here why...they can't be...but it will still be a nice cue and play great. You are OK with that? Cool. Let's do it.
Or..
A cuemaker is brought a pointed blank and asked to either convert it or finish it. The cuemaker checks the diameters. It is close. Diameters are on the small end, but the blank is just oversized enough to finish out to his cue specs. The cuemaker then looks at the points. They are considerably uneven. He can bump them a little to bring them in closer, but because the blank is not very oversized, they won't be perfectly even. Just not enough meat on the bone. Insert choices 1 and 2 above. Customer would still be happy. What does the cuemaker do?
A customer arranges to have a cuemaker finish a full spliced blank that customer owns. He mails it to the cuemaker. It looks good, points relatively even. Cuemaker agrees to finish it. Cuemaker takes a cut on it. Cuemaker discovers chips are heavy...the woods are wet! Come to find out the customer acquired wet woods and had the blank made by someone without any seasoning. Cue warps literally 1/4 of an inch in the forearm area after the initial true up. That will make points very uneven and there is no guarantee they can be evened out perfectly over the course of the build. What does he do? Stop now and have the customer tell everyone cuemaker doesn't know what he is doing because he cut on a blank and then refused to finish it? Keep going with the build, the customer will still happy in the end (though it took longer than quoted because the woods were wet), but someone else will look at the cue and say the cuemaker needs to practice his craft some more?
These are reasons why the answer to your question could possibly be "maybe".
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Probably BPIT.
Thats a great answer
Some of the post's give the impression that the term "CNC" only applies to one type of machine in this case a CNC inlay machine or milling machine.
The truth is "CNC" ( computer numeric control ) can be applied to just about any type of machine you can dream of and probably already has been done. In the machinist / woodworking trade there are dozens of types of machines that have been CNC'ed including. Just about every "machine" that you have seen that runs without a human turning or pushing it is considered a CNC on some level.
Mills
Lathes
Mill / Lathe combo units ( think Mazak Intergrex )
EDM machines
Table-saws
Band-saws
Polishing machines
Pick and place robots
CMM machines
Routers
Drilling machines
Tapping machines
Welders
etc.
etc.
Just because most cue makers and cue customers have never seen, or can't afford the technology doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Just about any part shape and size can be made on a machine that has a computer control. It often simply comes down to the cost of the machine versus the amount of time it would take to do it manually. The number of parts to be produced and the level of accuracy that is required is also a factor.
The truth is "CNC" ( computer numeric control ) can be applied to just about any type of machine you can dream of and probably already has been done. In the machinist / woodworking trade there are dozens of types of machines that have been CNC'ed including. Just about every "machine" that you have seen that runs without a human turning or pushing it is considered a CNC on some level.
Mills
Lathes
Mill / Lathe combo units ( think Mazak Intergrex )
EDM machines
Table-saws
Band-saws
Polishing machines
Pick and place robots
CMM machines
Routers
Drilling machines
Tapping machines
Welders
etc.
etc.
Just because most cue makers and cue customers have never seen, or can't afford the technology doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Just about any part shape and size can be made on a machine that has a computer control. It often simply comes down to the cost of the machine versus the amount of time it would take to do it manually. The number of parts to be produced and the level of accuracy that is required is also a factor.
First, I have never seen a manual machine. That couldn't be converted to CNC. So any points could be CNCed in.
Second, I hope any modern cue made, from start to finish, by a well respected cuemaker. Would have points within 1/8 inch.
Sneakies, conversions, and older cues get a pass.
Larry
Second, I hope any modern cue made, from start to finish, by a well respected cuemaker. Would have points within 1/8 inch.
Sneakies, conversions, and older cues get a pass.
Larry
Adding a piece of paper to one side then chuck it in so it turns off center a papers thickness can adjust the point lengths. If its that important but doing this moves the center. What's more important? Looks or having a great player.
I think the CM's that make perfect points without this or other techniques deserve the added dollars for their work. Its gotta be as you describe, a painstaking task to come even every time. Or even some of the time. I'm not a cue maker but its how I see it.
I never knew that.....seems ideal.
My 1980 Huebler has dead even points, and the sharpest I have ever seen. Seriously. My block letter Joss has dead even points. And honestly, I expect this is pretty typical for these cues.
My SM-7 Mizerak Professional Series has dead even four high and four low. In fact the points and veneers on that cue are spectacular. And as best as I can figure out it is a Kao Kao Taiwan made cue! (because the points are so well done I do suspect it might be Adam made, but have no proof...yet) LOL!
The others? I honestly don't remember well, and am not too concerned. I think my Dayton points are a little off, and I think my Espiritu points are even...if I remember correctly. But I struggle to remember about any of the others. Probably most of them are off.
I do have a full splice wood screw billiard cue (possibly a Victor) with veneers that has dead even points. Really a very cool find.
The most well respected? I expect they have a few that make the burn pile.
If I paid high dollar for a cue from a top maker, I think I would expect even points.
.
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My SM-7 Mizerak Professional Series has dead even four high and four low. In fact the points and veneers on that cue are spectacular. And as best as I can figure out it is a Kao Kao Taiwan made cue! (because the points are so well done I do suspect it might be Adam made, but have no proof...yet) LOL!
The others? I honestly don't remember well, and am not too concerned. I think my Dayton points are a little off, and I think my Espiritu points are even...if I remember correctly. But I struggle to remember about any of the others. Probably most of them are off.
I do have a full splice wood screw billiard cue (possibly a Victor) with veneers that has dead even points. Really a very cool find.
The most well respected? I expect they have a few that make the burn pile.
If I paid high dollar for a cue from a top maker, I think I would expect even points.
.
.