Do I have a good chance to go pro?

[cuejoey]

Lot's of great advice..........i like the advice that someone said to run a 100 a day straight without missing,,after you do that practice about 8 hours .........that is what some peope do..day in day out when you can do that then start talking pro.....some of the best pool players are in New York..these are people that never leave their block.....no one outside their neighborhoods know them......they could care less about traveling and entering tournaments.......if you want to be one of the best you can........don't let anyone discourage you......please you can still go to school and finish....if your dead serious go for it... do this > print out this post of your question and all the answers and keep it....then 10 years from now remember it and see where your at in life....perhaps a World Champ then..then you can put all the posts in a book about pool playing that u will write...good luck

 

[twilight]

Shanghai wasn't insulting anything and he certainly wasn't saying school was easy.

I myself never said that he said school was easy, I quoted him directly when he said it was the "easy way out." I do not deny anyone their rights of accomplishment and will not call anyone silly for being proud. If a question is genuine then there are no stupid questions, similarly, if I believe something may be offensive I will in a polite manner say that is it. I did say that I don't think he meant any insult, and I did not write a disertation saying I was highly offended. Common sense should have made you see that I was merely pointing out that I respectfully disagreed with him. And with the same respect, I want to state that I am not trying to pick a fight with you. Anyway, I won't press the matter further as I am taking away from the original poster.

 

[Donovan]

I myself never said that he said school was easy, I quoted him directly when he said it was the "easy way out." I do not deny anyone their rights of accomplishment and will not call anyone silly for being proud. If a question is genuine then there are no stupid questions, similarly, if I believe something may be offensive I will in a polite manner say that is it. I did say that I don't think he meant any insult, and I did not write a disertation saying I was highly offended. Common sense should have made you see that I was merely pointing out that I respectfully disagreed with him. And with the same respect, I want to state that I am not trying to pick a fight with you. Anyway, I won't press the matter further as I am taking away from the original poster.

Well, I appologize too. I reread your post again, and it probably reads harsher than you meant. LOL For that matter mine even read worse.

 

[pooltchr]

A lot of people on this board carelessly recommend BCA certified instruction. I would just like to point out that just because a person is "BCA certified" doesn't mean that they're competent (or in some cases even remotely competent). Not a knock on anyone, but I feel that it is TERRIBLE advice to throw some poor guy towards a BCA instructor just because he/she is certified. My game suffered terribly as a result of someone taking me under their wing. While I appreciate his intentions, I feel like I lost a lot of valuable time. I've seen some of these instructors playing and they play as wrong as you possibly can. If you learn from them, you'll have to unlearn what they taught you and relearn everything. If you have some money, take some lessons from GOOD players e.g. Shawn Putnam on this board. If not, then watch the top players carefully and shoot as many balls as you can.

Also I don't think 2 years for to become an A player is a stretch. I know a couple guys who are semi-pro to pro speed and they were at least strong B players within 6 months to 1 year. Just to give you an idea of where you stand. Those guys played constantly btw.

Just my 2c

I would agree that BCA Certification in and of itself does not guarantee that a person is a good instructor. However, BCA Certifications are not just handed out to anyone who wants to pay for it. Instructor candidates have to actually teach under the guidance of either an Advanced or Master instructor, and then get a recomendation from them to even get into the program. They then usually spend about 2 years as a "recognized" instructor. During that time, they must teach a minimum number of students, then go back to an Advanced or Master instructor for another evaluation before they can become Certified. Getting through two separate evaluations, demonstrating not only knowledge, but the ability to communicate that knowledge to students, and to demonstrate the concepts goes a long way to insuring that someone has the ability to teach.
There will always be some instructors who are better than others, but certification will pretty much guarantee that a student isn't going to be fed a bunch of BS that is often "taught" by many otherwise good players who don't fully understand the difference between being a good player and being a good teacher.
JMHO
Steve

 

[Donovan]

Here is the real Master Instructor/Coach solution: Get your cash ready, buck-up, and call Bert Kinister. He's had a few pros as students, even before they went pro.

Now, if I could only find a way to get cash for this suggestion!

I after you call him, take the lessons, go pro, and make millions, don't forget to show your love with some monetary thank yous; LOTS!

 

[Colin Colenso]

I am going to assume you did not intend to insult anyone here, but that statement is a bit offensive. After dropping out of college, I went back, spent countless nights studying and applying myself; at the same time worked third shift as well as slept in shifts to get a degree. I worked hard and made sacrifices so that I would not pay later in life, and respectfully disagree that school is the easy way out. As with many things in life, you take out what you put in.

I said that "If what you are looking for is the easy way out, then stick at school" or to that effect.

I was not saying that school was the easy way out, I was saying that if he thought leaving to become a pro was the easy way out, then he would be making a mistake and should instead stick at school.

But as you bring it up, I would say that high school education is relatively easy, apart from the effort to overcome the boredom due to the irrellevance of it. Anyone who tries and finds it a constant battle is just not set out to be a thinker. And those that are capable of clearer thinking are dragged down into the muck which is government approved schooling.

I'm sure many of my views on schooling are offensive...as I find most of what is taught in schools to be offensive. Those who think the schooling system is pretty good, are not likely to enjoy what I have to say on the subject. But if they listen long enough, they may change their minds.

As for what one can learn in college or other higher training, it may well be challenging, truly educational and valuable. It depends what and where you study. Many are exposused to the so called arts or social sciences and come out as brainwashed socialist post-modernists or worse yet, believers of common concept of democracy. Just thought I'd throw that last bit in to confuse someone
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
H. L. Mencken
US editor (1880 - 1956)
http://www.bigeye.com/mencken.htm

 

[Blackjack]

There will always be some instructors who are better than others, but certification will pretty much guarantee that a student isn't going to be fed a bunch of BS that is often "taught" by many otherwise good players who don't fully understand the difference between being a good player and being a good teacher.
JMHO
Steve

I have been teaching longer than the BCA instructor program has been around. A large majority of the people that I work with do so after becoming frustrated with the rudimentary teachings of some of the BCA Instructors they have seen. There are some that are aweful, and that is putting it nicely. They don't try to hide the fact that their instruction is aweful, so I won't either. I have no problem with the BCA program whatsoever until I hear statements like this from BCA Instructors that say that that "uncertified" instructors teach BS. I used to take offense to it, but now I actually think its kind of funny. I know you meant no offense by it, I just want to say that there are different instructional styles; and mine, though it may be different than what the BCA teaches, is just as effective.

Also, Steve... I will make the same offer to you, Randy, and Scott about coming to your clinics this year to teach a block of instruction on the mental aspect of the game - free of charge to the students that show up.

 

[pooltchr]

Blackjack,
I agree there are some very good instructors who are not in the BCA program. But as an instructor who has spent many hours in pool rooms, I'm sure you have heard a lot of hogwash coming from some very good players who are trying to teach someone else. I had a pretty solid player as a partner in a scotch doubles match tell me to shoot a particular shot with "topspin draw stroke"!!!!! Granted, he had consumed enough alcohol that night that he may not have been thinking clearly, but it's an example of what kind of damage people like this can do. A young lady came up to me Friday night and told me this same person had advised her to make major changes to the way she was stroking the ball. I watched her, and her stroke was darn near as pretty as Allison's. I asked her if she was comfortable with the stroke she was using, and she told me yes. I advised her that she should under no circumstances change her stroke.
Now I'm sure this person meant no harm, but imagine the damage it could have caused to this girl's game.
I have read your posts, seen some of the articles you have written, and would believe you are a fine instructor, whether or not you have been certified. You do your research, and present your ideas in an intelligent manner, and provide a factual basis for what you say.
My point in the post was that for a person looking for a good instructor, the BCA certified list increases the odds of finding someone who can actually help. As a student, I would want to talk to any potential instructor before handing over my hard earned cash for lessons. I would be seeing if the instructor was interested in learning about me and my game, or if they were interested in telling me what they were going to do for (to) me. Good instructors will tailor their instruction to meet the needs of the students. Poor instructors will try to make the student fit the mold of what they believe is "the right way".
Like the car commercials say..buy a "certified" pre-owned car from them. Now it doesn't guarantee you won't get a lemon, but it does decrease the odds. It also doesn't mean a "non-certified" car won't last for years.
Steve

 

[chefjeff]

actually....I really like to play pool...but I know that I may not have a good living if I play pool...I can say that because I know that my dad make more money than ANY pool player in this world...well...being a pro pool player while having a job is my goal...so I can have a lot of fun in pool and getting additional money at the same time...

Thanks for the answer, Ericksakti. The pay problem MAY be over with the new IPT, so looking at the past payouts may not be an accurate assessment of potential earnings for pro players today.

What does your Dad say about your wanting to become a pro pool player? Is he for it or against it, or what?

Jeff Livingston

 

[pete lafond]

HS helps set a foundation for the future period. Clearly home economics and alike have less impact on the future but the discipline of school in itself can be rewarding.

Pool is underdeveloped

Going pro should not interfere with school. To make the choice of school over going pro is ridiculous. Simply school is a must. How many golfers (we must use golf because pool is underdeveloped) have achieved college degrees? Did school interfere with their careers? Not at all.

The problem is that there exist no formal HS and NCAA athletics programs that include Billiards. So what exists for billiards today are pool rooms. Players you will generally find in the pool room during the daytime are most likely not college graduates, maybe even HS drop outs. To bad.

Given if Billiards offered top pay (more of the IPT tour pay levels) this would change quite a bit. The reason is that with such high earning potential, schools will not want to miss out on program offerings. Simply put, you would now see billiards in HS and College competitions.

Once (if) billiards reaches paycheck sizes that equal many of the pros in other sports, the challenge to become a pro will be significantly more difficult. In fact there will be so many players, that many of today's 'B' players will be considered 'C' players and many 'A' players will be 'B' ones. Competition will become so difficult that the average 100 ball runner will be just a strong player.

Subject of instructors:

Yes I have to agree that because someone is accredited as a BCA instructor does not mean that they are a good teacher, or even knowledgeable enough in billiards. The best players in any sport are those that are intuitive about the sport, lessons or not. Unlike golf which has millions and millions of dollars to research teaching methods, pool has limited resources.

A talented player with some structure on teaching billiards can become excellent teacher, it is up to us to find them. Take them to a billiard table and they should be able to run multiple sets of 3 and 4 billiards, they should be able to run at least 80 balls once and a while in straight pool, they should be able to run at least a 3 pack in 9 ball on frequent basis. It is good fundamentals that allows all of these things in a player, not polished skills. Not looking for grand, just someone that knows what they are talking about.

A good mentor is by far the best teacher because they have keen knowledge of what should happen upon execution, they are results oriented. A teacher will tend to be more structured to prepare the player with the right tools to play the game, the know how. We need teachers because there are not enough mentors and teachers are trained in the fundamentals of the game which is important. Again find a good one.

 

[Egg McDogit]

I know a couple BCA instructors in my area and I'd only recommend 1 of them (he plays good 1 pocket) to someone who's serious about learning. Of the others, I'd say 90% will actually HURT your game.

You can learn the basics from them, e.g. what inside english does...what follow does, etc. That's about it. Anything else and you better make sure your teacher knows the game.

Here are some common things that I've seen in the BCA instructors I've known/played/watched:
1) trying to get WAY too close to the object ball taking TERRIBLE TERRIBLE lines and using some very interesting and creative ways to do it
2) excessive use of english in interesting combinations with excessive use of draw/follow
3) extremely shaky pocketing...especially on anything over 5 feet
4) taking the wrong shot
5) arrogance/ego and not admitting/knowing they're wrong when you ask them a question
6) purposely playing out of position and going 2-3 rails on every shot thinking they play the "filipino game"
etc. etc.

If you want a good instructor, BCA certified doesn't mean anything. The best instructor you can find is yourself and some accustats tapes. I recommend gabe owen and ralph souquet.

My point in the post was that for a person looking for a good instructor, the BCA certified list increases the odds of finding someone who can actually help. As a student, I would want to talk to any potential instructor before handing over my hard earned cash for lessons. I would be seeing if the instructor was interested in learning about me and my game, or if they were interested in telling me what they were going to do for (to) me. Good instructors will tailor their instruction to meet the needs of the students. Poor instructors will try to make the student fit the mold of what they believe is "the right way".
Like the car commercials say..buy a "certified" pre-owned car from them. Now it doesn't guarantee you won't get a lemon, but it does decrease the odds. It also doesn't mean a "non-certified" car won't last for years.
Steve

 

[Snapshot9]

2 sided answer

First, Gabe started playing the game when he was about 15. He
started to 'get serious' when he was about 17. (I gave him the
7 when he was 17, so he was making progress on his game. Between
17 and 19, his game took off by leaps and bounds (first living trip
down to Tulsa). He was an A+ then when he returned to Wichita,
and it wasn't hard to see he had talent for the game, but Gabe worked
hard on his game. Talent does you no good unless you know how to
develop it.

A Poolplayer odd result - I considered trying to go pro when I was 24, but
decided that getting my college degree was more important. I got an A.A. from San Jacinto, and a B.B.A. from University of Houston. I kept playing
and gambling all that my life would permit me to. I worked 55 hours a week
at Boeing, and carried 12 hours in Graduate School at night, plus had a wife
and son to worry about. I worked for over 20 years with demanding schedules, went back to technical school when I was 28 to crosstrain into
computers. I ended up going through 4 divorces through marriages to 3
women (married one twice). I got downsized where I had been for 18 1/2
years, and was always considered part of the skeleton crew. I had some
emotional problems for 2 years (deaths, divorce, another relationship for
2 years that went south) that resulted in myself being on disability. I was
50 at the time, and the only jobs that seemed interested in me were on the
East coast or Phoenix (I live in Wichita). I took a year consulting job in
Indianapolis after getting downsized, and I did not want to move clear across
the country again at my age to be alone in a big city by myself since the
rest of my family was located here, and the fact that I kind of have to
watch out for my Mom. I can not even find a part time job, as they all tell
me I am over-qualified. Other full time jobs around here don't consider me
at my age, or because I have been on disability. I never in the world
expected my life to turn out like it has. I only wanted to be married once,
raise a good family, and enjoy things in life, and grow old with my wife, and
have some security as I grew older. SO NOW, I WONDER WHAT WAS IT ALL
FOR? WOULD I HAVE HAD A BETTER LIFE IF I HAD DECIDED TO GO AHEAD
AND GO FOR IT BY TURNING PRO? Just food for thought ... Sometimes,
taking that 'safe' course of action isn't always the best thing to do. Sometimes, reaching for that dream, no matter how far away it seems,
might be the right thing to do.

 

[ericksakti]

Thanks for the answer, Ericksakti. The pay problem MAY be over with the new IPT, so looking at the past payouts may not be an accurate assessment of potential earnings for pro players today.

What does your Dad say about your wanting to become a pro pool player? Is he for it or against it, or what?

Jeff Livingston

Well....I agree with you about the ipt thing...but it doesn't make sure that pro players will earn more money too right??But I'm glad to see a lot of improvement in pool game...there are more money in this game than it used to be....
Well my parent don't really support me playing pool....they don't like the environment in pool rooms(u know smokers,gamblers,dll).And for the people who told me to get some instructor....I had one before....He is the top 30 player in my country...But I just didn't feel right with his instructions....and I believe that my strongest part of the game is my break....I can make about 2 ball consistently....but what is different from the pro player is I'm breaking from the middle of the table....is it a bad way to break from the middle of the table?

 

[sjm]

I believe that my strongest part of the game is my break....I can make about 2 ball consistently....but what is different from the pro player is I'm breaking from the middle of the table....is it a bad way to break from the middle of the table?

If you make two balls consistently, breaking from the center is a good way for you. It should be easier to control the cue ball, too.

 

[Matt_24]

The path to success in anything doesn't come easily, but I believe is achievable.

Set your goal. I recommend writing it down on a piece of paper and put it in your wallet. Pull it out and look at it whenever you need inspiration or a reminder of what you are sacrificing for.

Sacrifice? Yes! You will have to make some extreme sacrifices to become a pro at pool. Are they worth it? That depends on your dedication and most of all desire!

After you have a clearly defined a long term goal, develop a plan of short term goals that will achieve an end result of the successful completion or achievement of your long term goal. Of course you will have stumbling blocks, naysayers, and other detractions along the way. The key is being flexible, and maintaining an attitude of success. An attitude that shows nothing will stop you from achieving your goal. An attitude that shows you will do whatever is "ethically" possible to become a professional, and champion in pool.

Find yourself a mentor. Who is the pro that you most admire? How does he conduct himself in tournaments. What is his practice routine? You don't necessarily have to "know" them to be mentored by them. How did the pro that YOU admire achieve his success? Try to pattern your professional life after that pro. Now, will that necessarily be an easy way to go? Not hardly. But do you REALLY want to be a champion?

These are the questions you're going to have to ask yourself. Is the desire to become a champion so strong that you eat, sleep, and breath pool? I highly recommend finishing school, and college..but I also believe that you have to go for your hearts desire.

Chris Tate gave me a great book on Ben Hogan. Now here is a guy that achieved excellence in golf and business without much natural talent for the game, but a tremendous amount of hard work, guts, and determination. He worked harder than his naturally talented competition, and became a force to be reckoned with!

Look at Nick Varner. I've heard him referred to as the most un-talented pro there was. He didn't start winning championships until a bit later in his career (not referring to his college championships), but once he started winning he was dominant in all disciplines, and had a "never say die" attitude that took him to the top in professional pool and an entrance into the hall of fame. Even when he wasn't winning he never gave up. I know a guy who lived near him way back when in Kentucky, and used to go to Nick's dad's pool room. He said you would see Nick practicing there (when he wasn't in action, or playing in tournaments) for 8 hours a day. He said he saw Nick practicing the 9 ball break one day for 6 solid hours. Rack em', break em'. Rack em, break em'. He just couldn't believe it.

Do you have that kind of determination? Are you willing to do what it takes? If so, then I say go for it. Put in the work. Find the path of excellence that will take you where you want in pool and as the great Winston Churchill said to a room of Oxford graduates (this was his entire speech), "Never Give Up!".

Best of luck!

 

[wayne]

...and I believe that my strongest part of the game is my break....I can make about 2 ball consistently....but what is different from the pro player is I'm breaking from the middle of the table....is it a bad way to break from the middle of the table?

Well, if you make 2 balls consistently from the middle of the table you may already be better than any pro in the world in this aspect of the game. If some mid-level pros, I know, could do that they would be the best players in the world.

Wayne

 

[Island Drive]

Pro

Well....I'm 17 now...have been playing pool for about almost 2 years....and....maybe i'm between a C and B player...
I can do run out about 3 times when playing pool for 2 hour....
Do I have a good chance to go pro in about 3 years looking at my current condition??

Its a fair question, but no one but you, your drive, your ability to play allot, there are many factors. As I look at the "pro" here in the US, I don't see enough structure and cash to keep but a few in the chips. I don't think I can think of one professional pool player that did have a family, groom his children to become a pro pool player, for obvious $$$$ reasons. I would keep working on your game, your lifes timelines may be able to put you in a position to actually be part of a real tour, tho I think, a true tour will start in another part of the world first, and at that time the pool of players will probably be from China and as always the Phillipines. I think the great players that are in there later years somewhat, were sooooooooo addicted to playing that 10 hours a day for years couldn't satisfy em. Unless your extremely gifted, it will take an incredible amount of hours and learning to become good, and with most of the money on the top at events, you'll at best break even for todays road costs. I would work hard at it, move to an area where you can play more and more, and keep educating yourself in school and billiards and see what happens. Allot of highschool football/basketball/baseball players had dreams to become great, especially since they had a structured, coached enviornment to help them along. But billiards has no pinnacle and no platform to keep your cames level increasing like golf or other top end sports. Plus you also need to work on your grammar and get that in order for the rest of your life, its the little steps that take you to the top. Keep at it you have your youth on you side, but if god didn't give you the gift, you'll just have to work 10 times harder to get there.

 

[TheConArtist]

if it is a dream to become pro then work hard to full that dream, i know it is my dream to become a pro, but i am too darn lazy lol. Speaking of all this school i have to start classes again soon.