Do not do business with Chas Clements, or you will loose your money!!!
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
Well I would hope that this is something that sentimental people and collectors can debate some time long into the future. Right now I am just building cases as I can with no concern for their future value. All I am really concerned with is that they continue to protect the cues well into the future and that they are built to last just like Chas taught me.
Thank you John, like I said I doubt I will get my money back but his Paypal account will close his account and my personal bank is turning this over to a collection agency that will start sending collection notices. I did save all my emails, and according to Chas I should have had the case before 2009 was through and that is when the PM's ended.
Sent By:
"Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net> On: Mar 03/02/09 2:49 PM
To: fullsplicebilliards2}
Reply to: "Chas" <chasclements@comcast.net>
Chas, what kinda time frame are we looking at for the completion of my
> case, I was so excited that you agreed to build me one I forgot to ask.
The case takes about eight hard days spread over about three weeks- mostly
drying times for various stages; contact adhesives, water wetted, alcohol
wetted, finishes- that sort of thing.
I think I have about eight weeks of making saps before I can start on your
case.
I'll use the time between now and then drawing the pattern for
ornamentation.
It'll definitely be 'mid-year' before completion.
I may have to rest up to do certain stages- the eight studio days is at my
best. I'm going to work as hard as I can without straining badly. A lot of
this work is very physical- and I've lost over eighty pounds (some of it
*must* have been muscle <g>).
Chas[/U][/B]
Again thanks John for your help in this matter.
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John,
That is an amazing offer. I salute you for taking up the slack. I saw the kind of work your guys can do - amazing to say the least.
Glad you came back too!
Craig, the situation really sucks. It sucks that you lose money and it sucks that you won't get your Chas case.
Maybe something good will come from this. Let's hope so.
Chris
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Ray thanks for your post, the last email I received was from Chas, the last time I called I talked with son, however, that was many many months ago. John said in an earlier post that he also has called and no one answered.
Outside of that I have no idea, but there is no hard feelings on my part, I hope he is OK, and that some one can contact and check on him.
Thanks for your post
John, I don't have any connections in Denver I wish I could send some one by, like I said above I agree some one should check on him to see if he is OK. As far as, closing down someones account that is up to the banks and Paypal this is normal procedure during this type of situation according to Paypal and my Bank.
I am only interested in getting what rightfully belongs to me, I will drop any investigation with my bank and Paypal once I have been compensated.
Thanks for your help John, I also believe that Karma will help take care of things.
Craig, I am so sorry that this happened to you. What a nightmare. I put over $1000 down on a 9 ft Brunswick for my new house and I left thinking about how I would feel if the guy jumped town. Not that he would since he is extremely trusted and has been doing table work for a living for decades.
Thanks for posting the warning and showing the history as it helps in my decision on who to get my new case from as well.
If it were me and I had health issues, I would have my family sell whatever valuables necessary to refund my customers. If I didn't have valuables I would tell my family that they will be inheriting the house and will be able to sell it but please refund my customers so my name won't be tarnished and people won't be getting robbed.
Looks like you have waited way longer than I would have to take action. Best of luck.
Thanks for posting the warning and showing the history as it helps in my decision on who to get my new case from as well.
If it were me and I had health issues, I would have my family sell whatever valuables necessary to refund my customers. If I didn't have valuables I would tell my family that they will be inheriting the house and will be able to sell it but please refund my customers so my name won't be tarnished and people won't be getting robbed.
Looks like you have waited way longer than I would have to take action. Best of luck.
Hi Sir,
wow, i think John barton is already a legend for cue case maker... but, if you don't want to take this oppurtunity, well maybe i will take it.. Please check your PM..
Best
Dedy
wow, i think John barton is already a legend for cue case maker... but, if you don't want to take this oppurtunity, well maybe i will take it.. Please check your PM..
Best
Dedy
Hi Sir,
wow, i think John barton is already a legend for cue case maker... but, if you don't want to take this oppurtunity, well maybe i will take it.. Please check your PM..
Best
Dedy
Thanks I have checked your Pm and responded.
Thanks for your offer, I appreciate it, but I am not intersted in any trades.
Take care
Ok.. I will send you full 1000$ ....Please PM me your address... i will send it via money wire..
Best
Dedy
Best
Dedy
This is an amazing thread.
Sorry Craig that you have to go through this but you're certainly getting a lesson in generosity.
I'm sorry that Mr. Clements has to endure this. It must be very painful for him.
I'm glad that John has posted and that he has had the opportunity to do this. John, you have shown youself to be a man with a good heart. You've done a beautiful thing here.
This direction this thread has taken makes me grateful to be associated with azbilliards. This is the internet at its best.
Sorry Craig that you have to go through this but you're certainly getting a lesson in generosity.
I'm sorry that Mr. Clements has to endure this. It must be very painful for him.
I'm glad that John has posted and that he has had the opportunity to do this. John, you have shown youself to be a man with a good heart. You've done a beautiful thing here.
This direction this thread has taken makes me grateful to be associated with azbilliards. This is the internet at its best.
100% payment up front
Someone directed me to this thread requesting comment. Not much to comment on here but I'm going to comment on 100% payment up front. Aside from almost costing me a three thousand mile round trip in a third instance 100% payment up front has cost me two good friends over the years.
Both men are top notch craftsmen, both are very small businessmen similar to the small cue and case makers. Both are very good people. Both are unfortunately just human and when they need to feed their families they find it far easier to work on things that they will receive cash for when it is finished than to work on things that take a lot of time and they have to spend money to finish while getting nothing when the item was finished, indeed having to pay packaging and shipping costs. I had to go on another large forum and hammer somebody I had recommended for years after he screwed several people including friends that I had originally recommended him to. I was the first person building his business and was one of the first destroying it. That was painful because I still like the man and consider him a fine person. Never-the-less, my reputation was still getting him orders and I had no option but to speak out.
Exceptions to every rule, so I'll say 99% of the time, but 99% of the time sooner or later things are going to crap giving 100% deposits. Somebody getting cost of materials upfront is reasonable. Somebody getting half of their labor upfront I still can agree with. So let's say 50-66% deposit upfront maximum depending on what total cost is, maybe a lot less. Giving more leads even the best people to neglect your project.
My thoughts, my opinions, based on over 40 years of dealings with people and deposits.
Hu
Someone directed me to this thread requesting comment. Not much to comment on here but I'm going to comment on 100% payment up front. Aside from almost costing me a three thousand mile round trip in a third instance 100% payment up front has cost me two good friends over the years.
Both men are top notch craftsmen, both are very small businessmen similar to the small cue and case makers. Both are very good people. Both are unfortunately just human and when they need to feed their families they find it far easier to work on things that they will receive cash for when it is finished than to work on things that take a lot of time and they have to spend money to finish while getting nothing when the item was finished, indeed having to pay packaging and shipping costs. I had to go on another large forum and hammer somebody I had recommended for years after he screwed several people including friends that I had originally recommended him to. I was the first person building his business and was one of the first destroying it. That was painful because I still like the man and consider him a fine person. Never-the-less, my reputation was still getting him orders and I had no option but to speak out.
Exceptions to every rule, so I'll say 99% of the time, but 99% of the time sooner or later things are going to crap giving 100% deposits. Somebody getting cost of materials upfront is reasonable. Somebody getting half of their labor upfront I still can agree with. So let's say 50-66% deposit upfront maximum depending on what total cost is, maybe a lot less. Giving more leads even the best people to neglect your project.
My thoughts, my opinions, based on over 40 years of dealings with people and deposits.
Hu
JB is just amazing, where else but here would this happen.....wow!!
hey manwon... hey john... & WOW seng!!
all i can say is seng is OUTRAGEOUS [thank you sir for your kindness] and john is, well, just john - and the kind of friend i wish i had just one of!!
manwon, being this is azb [the one and only], and we are all family here, pls pm me your pp addy and i will cover your 250 lose.
but also at the same time, john, pls send me mr. clement's pp ady and i will do the same as i can only guess that this may be a critical time of need for your friend.
all the best,
smokey
Ok.. I will send you full 1000$ ....Please PM me your address... i will send it via money wire..
Best
Dedy
all i can say is seng is OUTRAGEOUS [thank you sir for your kindness] and john is, well, just john - and the kind of friend i wish i had just one of!!
manwon, being this is azb [the one and only], and we are all family here, pls pm me your pp addy and i will cover your 250 lose.
but also at the same time, john, pls send me mr. clement's pp ady and i will do the same as i can only guess that this may be a critical time of need for your friend.
all the best,
smokey
damn you john. everytime i think i completely hate you, you go and do something truly nice. rep coming to you sir. this is a remarkable stand up move. way to help out your friend and his customers.:thumbup:
I concur!!!!!!!!!