BVal said:It doesn't really matter since we all know what we are talking about
BVal
Just because it doesn't matter doesn't mean it's not fun to discuss ad nauseum.
-Andrew
Do you consider follow and draw 'english'?
- Thread starter rackmsuckr
- Start date
Just because it doesn't matter doesn't mean it's not fun to discuss ad nauseum.
-Andrew
rackmsuckr said:
Yes, in response to your thread title.
Hi Linda,
I learned it the way you did, but if I'm referring to a combination of draw and left, for example, I would say 'low left english' or just 'low left'. With knowledgeable players, I would usually use a number on the clock face for more precision. I think it's important to be clear and relatively universal in acknowledging that english refers only to sidespin in order to avoid confusion among beginning players. If that's clear, imagine how perplexed a student would be when his/her instructor says to avoid english at this stage, when they were just working on draw and follow the session before.
I hear some people saying that we should change the terminology to sidespin, for example. I see no reason to change a term that is part of the billiard lore and that has been clearly understood for decades. Although it's an unavoidable part of the internationalization of the sport, I confess to being somewhat dismayed by what I call the "snookerization" of pool over the last few years in areas ranging from pocket sizes to terminology. I fear that in the not too distant future we will all be playing, with almost no english and no bank shots, on 3.5 inch pockets and we will all be trying to pot the black without scratching the white.
I learned it the way you did, but if I'm referring to a combination of draw and left, for example, I would say 'low left english' or just 'low left'. With knowledgeable players, I would usually use a number on the clock face for more precision. I think it's important to be clear and relatively universal in acknowledging that english refers only to sidespin in order to avoid confusion among beginning players. If that's clear, imagine how perplexed a student would be when his/her instructor says to avoid english at this stage, when they were just working on draw and follow the session before.
I hear some people saying that we should change the terminology to sidespin, for example. I see no reason to change a term that is part of the billiard lore and that has been clearly understood for decades. Although it's an unavoidable part of the internationalization of the sport, I confess to being somewhat dismayed by what I call the "snookerization" of pool over the last few years in areas ranging from pocket sizes to terminology. I fear that in the not too distant future we will all be playing, with almost no english and no bank shots, on 3.5 inch pockets and we will all be trying to pot the black without scratching the white.
Well, if you think about it, ANYWHERE you hit the cue ball applies English to the ball, even "dead center". It all depends on how hard you hit it.
The first thing that happens when you hit the cue ball is it goes some (Skids, glides) before the friction takes over and it actually starts rolling over the cloth.
Depending on the speed you hit the cue ball with, and the distance between the cue ball and the object ball, determines when the cue ball begins to roll.
The first thing that happens when you hit the cue ball is it goes some (Skids, glides) before the friction takes over and it actually starts rolling over the cloth.
Depending on the speed you hit the cue ball with, and the distance between the cue ball and the object ball, determines when the cue ball begins to roll.
9BallPaul said:
That was a good call to look it up! I think that pretty much clears up any doubt in my mind; top-spin and back-spin are technically not types of "english". (Although, if enough people use the term that way, then the dictionary should update its definition to reflect that.)
On another note, since they used the term "deliberately" in the definition, I guess that means there's no such thing as "accidental english", only "accidental side spin".
I am having grave difficulty in understanding your statement. I assume that you are one who believes that any cue-induced spin should be called 'english'. If so, how can you possibly apply that to a hit that produces no spin at all?Jeff said:
It's important for us to be specific in the terms we use to describe what is done at the table. I believe it is truly misleading to use the same term to describe sidespine and to describe spin created along the vertical axis, particularly because of the peculiar things that occur when we deviate from the vertical axis. As an earlier poster noted, using your broad definition of english, terms like BHE would become meaningless.
For most of us, it all makes no difference, because we've all been exposed to the various terminologies for so long... Talk to someone who has no knowledge of pool (ie a kid just learning or a beginning player) and there'll be quite a difference. Top spin, Back spin, Left spin, and Right spin can be picked up (conceptually) quite readily. English, draw and follow will be concepts that will have to be explained in order for it to make sense. And, you'd probably be hard pressed to explain it without using spin in your definition. Now, of course, most of us diehard / experienced players have been using the terminology for so long, that there will be much resistance to even thinking about changing. Can't make a leopard change its spots sorta thing... Ideal world does not always match with reality. Granted.
There's an assertion that "it's important to be clear and relatively universal in acknowledging that english refers only to sidespin in order to avoid confusion among beginning players." And with that assertion, it suggests that "if that's clear, imagine how perplexed a student would be when his/her instructor says to avoid english at this stage, when they were just working on draw and follow the session before."
For a beginning player all of this can be circumvented quite readily, by simply telling the player, that you should learn top and bottom spin before learning side spin. This takes away the aspect of having to relay to them the concept of English...
Interesting enough: the confusion about what english is, is what has generated this thread to begin with. And many of the people on here have had very differing answers/points of view on this. This is amongst the people who play pool regularly.
Great to talk ad nauseum about something which will likely make no difference anyway!!! Glad to add my 2 cents worth.
There's an assertion that "it's important to be clear and relatively universal in acknowledging that english refers only to sidespin in order to avoid confusion among beginning players." And with that assertion, it suggests that "if that's clear, imagine how perplexed a student would be when his/her instructor says to avoid english at this stage, when they were just working on draw and follow the session before."
For a beginning player all of this can be circumvented quite readily, by simply telling the player, that you should learn top and bottom spin before learning side spin. This takes away the aspect of having to relay to them the concept of English...
Interesting enough: the confusion about what english is, is what has generated this thread to begin with. And many of the people on here have had very differing answers/points of view on this. This is amongst the people who play pool regularly.
Great to talk ad nauseum about something which will likely make no difference anyway!!! Glad to add my 2 cents worth.
Stones said:
It seems like a regional semantic to me too. I see more players from the South, applying the word "english" to any kind of spin on the cueball.
In the U.S., we instructors define only sidespin as english, in order for the student to be able to readily understand the difference between just top and bottom spin; versus top, or bottom spin (or centerball), with added sidespin. Therefore, top, center and bottom, by themselves, are NOT english.
In the U.K., the difference in terminology is somewhat the same. Draw is called 'screw', and english is called 'side', thereby differentiating the two kinds of spin...rotational (sidespin), and directional (top or bottom, without sidespin).
Scott Lee
It's time for us Americans to rebel again!!!vagabond said:
We've changed french fries to freedom fries!!!
The British are backing out of Iraq....
It's your patriotic duty to change "english" to "spin"!
If you continue to use the term "english" then you're UNAmerican. Even if you're already unAmerican...
<insert star spangled banner here>
scratch that... this calls for <glory glory hallelujah>
Oh oh oh... And I want one of those patriotic background sets with the flags and the American eagle... Can do a real set, or we can use one of those computer generated ones... Gotta love Modern technology...
OK OK, well in the meantime can just imagine it.
Yes, it is very easy to understand that low left means low left english, I think that is pretty universal. I guess the major concensus is that anything other than sidespin is really not 'english', but feel free to use the term anyway. 
rackmsuckr said:
Commie! Dissentor! Protestor! All Anti-American!
This will be picked up by the Bush administration's domestic spying program and you will inprisoned, missy!! Say goodbye to your family, and don't expect a trial or even to see a lawyer. Habeus Corpus, yeah right! Cuz that's not how our Americanism works around here!
FLICKit said:
Yeah, but I'm one of Donovan's security guards!
