That's weird, I wasn't looking at the object ball or the cueball when Sam was shooting.
Do you look at the object ball?
- Thread starter Matt Stockman
- Start date
That's weird, I wasn't looking at the object ball or the cueball when Sam was shooting.
I've had instructors tell me both things. Ralf Souqet told me in an email he looks at the cueball last. a good case can be made for both, but the general concensus is probably object ball last.
however, i believe i totally agree with what Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman taught me several years ago. that being if your alignment is good, your aim is good, and your stroke is straight, you can be looking at the blonde in the 5th row and you will achieve shot success.
i totally believe its a matter of preference. mine is CB last. best of luck with whatever you decide works best for you.
DCP
however, i believe i totally agree with what Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman taught me several years ago. that being if your alignment is good, your aim is good, and your stroke is straight, you can be looking at the blonde in the 5th row and you will achieve shot success.
i totally believe its a matter of preference. mine is CB last. best of luck with whatever you decide works best for you.
DCP
I have been there too..
I was not looking enough at the cue ball during my practice strokes. I have done a 10 minute practice routine daily for two weeks in order to correct this. Now I have a very deliberate pause on the final stroke in order to give my eyes time to lock in on the object ball right before shooting. This works for me. If my cue is moving my eyes are fixed on the cue ball to ensure i'm hitting the exact spot I want. The other basic fundamental that has really caused me to miss balls is my stance. I now have a preshot routine that allows me to be in total alignment. This has been a huge help to me. If you dont have any luck fixing these things go to someone qualified to help you. I went to Stan Shuffett's course and a year later i'm still growing from that experience. It has shaved years off the learning curve for me. Good luck to you. Keep shootin!
In my ongoing quest to become at least halfway proficient at this game (so I dont have to be embarresed to tell people I have a table in my basement) I've been working a lot on my preshot routine and aiming sequences.
My question would be ones final destination of the eyes. I've heard lots of different things: picture a ghost ball; secquence down the shot line to the object ball before moving the cue forward on the final stroke; and I remember Bartram saying he focuses in on a small spot on the object ball during his final stroke. On the other hand, I thought I read somewhere that Earl looks at the cue ball when hes pulling the trigger.
During my practice Ive found focusing too much on the object ball seems to take me out of the rhythm of shooting and often causes me to cinch on shots instead of moving the rock like im supposed too.
Anyhow, I was hoping I could hear a few opinions from you fine folks. Do you have one and only one sequence that you use? if so what is it? or do you do different things for different shots?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
I was not looking enough at the cue ball during my practice strokes. I have done a 10 minute practice routine daily for two weeks in order to correct this. Now I have a very deliberate pause on the final stroke in order to give my eyes time to lock in on the object ball right before shooting. This works for me. If my cue is moving my eyes are fixed on the cue ball to ensure i'm hitting the exact spot I want. The other basic fundamental that has really caused me to miss balls is my stance. I now have a preshot routine that allows me to be in total alignment. This has been a huge help to me. If you dont have any luck fixing these things go to someone qualified to help you. I went to Stan Shuffett's course and a year later i'm still growing from that experience. It has shaved years off the learning curve for me. Good luck to you. Keep shootin!
As far as accuracy is concerned, yes. But there is more to the successful execution of a shot than accuracy. Good position play requires excellent speed control, for example, and it seems to me that the information you receive visually during the execution of a shot plays a very important role in being able to judge the distances involved, and hence in being able to judge the right speed needed in order to obtain good position for the next shot.
In my ongoing quest to become at least halfway proficient at this game (so I dont have to be embarresed to tell people I have a table in my basement
My question would be ones final destination of the eyes. I've heard lots of different things: picture a ghost ball; secquence down the shot line to the object ball before moving the cue forward on the final stroke; and I remember Bartram saying he focuses in on a small spot on the object ball during his final stroke. On the other hand, I thought I read somewhere that Earl looks at the cue ball when hes pulling the trigger.
During my practice Ive found focusing too much on the object ball seems to take me out of the rhythm of shooting and often causes me to cinch on shots instead of moving the rock like im supposed too.
Anyhow, I was hoping I could hear a few opinions from you fine folks. Do you have one and only one sequence that you use? if so what is it? or do you do different things for different shots?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
OB LAST!!!. One of the best pieces of information I have ever received. I'd elaborate, but I'd also bore you with the dialogue.
I think it's a good idea to look at the target. I try to stare the ball in the pocket! .... burn a hole in it.
The only shots where the final resting spot for the eyes should be on the cb are on jumpshots, cb on the rail, the break, jacked up shots. On those shots use the back hand to aim and watch the cb.
The only shots where the final resting spot for the eyes should be on the cb are on jumpshots, cb on the rail, the break, jacked up shots. On those shots use the back hand to aim and watch the cb.
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I have been going to Mark Wilson for stroke instruction the last half year. He is quite the advocate on looking at the cue ball during the backswing, and looking at the ob during the forward stroke. However, he is most particular that the eye sequencing be consistent regardless of the last ball gazed.
I used to always look at the cue ball last. For me this was a problem, since I did not see where I was actually contacting the cue ball. Once I switched to the ob last, I am making better shots since I allow myself to adjust my aim or can tell if I am putting unwanted english easier. Noticing this helps the subconscious adjust its aiming over time.
I also find my desire to stare at the cue ball last was generally caused by an uneasiness in the shot. Which I think lended intself to subconscious steering. I remedied that by having a better set and commitment in my preshot routine.
Not sure if this makes sense, but just looking at the ob and going through with my stroke gives me a lot more confidence and keeps me much more entranced in my shot.
It took me several months of practicing my preshot routine (pocketing ducks or simply working on my setup) before I thought I was doing this reasonably well. I had my friend video tape my stroke a couple of weeks ago while I was working on a different issue. I realized that it had finally slipped into my unconscious. I had completely forgotten about my eye sequence but was very clearly executing it.
Conscious practice pays off in training the subconsious very nicely.
I used to always look at the cue ball last. For me this was a problem, since I did not see where I was actually contacting the cue ball. Once I switched to the ob last, I am making better shots since I allow myself to adjust my aim or can tell if I am putting unwanted english easier. Noticing this helps the subconscious adjust its aiming over time.
I also find my desire to stare at the cue ball last was generally caused by an uneasiness in the shot. Which I think lended intself to subconscious steering. I remedied that by having a better set and commitment in my preshot routine.
Not sure if this makes sense, but just looking at the ob and going through with my stroke gives me a lot more confidence and keeps me much more entranced in my shot.
It took me several months of practicing my preshot routine (pocketing ducks or simply working on my setup) before I thought I was doing this reasonably well. I had my friend video tape my stroke a couple of weeks ago while I was working on a different issue. I realized that it had finally slipped into my unconscious. I had completely forgotten about my eye sequence but was very clearly executing it.
Conscious practice pays off in training the subconsious very nicely.
I look at the OB last.
For sidespin, I use backhand english, and I think that when more than a couple of mm is being used, it is better to look at the cue ball last. Otherwise, there may be a tendency to "steer" back towards center ball. For draw or follow near the miscue limit I also do cue ball last.
For the great majority of shots, object ball last.
For the great majority of shots, object ball last.
I think you need to trust your aim and focus on your stroke. Once your lined up, you shouldn't be moving anyway. Recently Ive been doing this: I take a look at my target to make sure I'm inline, then focus on the cueball and dont take my eye off it. Take my warmup strokes and make sure Im hitting the correct place on the cueball with fluid consistent stokes, then extend my cue through the cueball. Ive found Im pocketing a lot more balls. A lot of people focus too much on aim when its their stoke thats not consistent. Mine sure isnt consistent, but since Ive focused on my stoke and trusted my aim, its very much improved. So I vote for cueball.
i was a professional snooker player and have just started playing 9ball in the last year. any good snooker coach (remember potting is harder in snooker) will tell you before you go down on the shot stand in the line of the shot and go down to the shot on the line of the shot, firstly look at the q ball to check you are striking in the right part then as you feather (cue back and forth) flick your eyes back and forward between white and object ball (i do q ball on forward stroke and object on back stroke) then on the final backswing when u pause switch your eye to object ball and keep them there so your focused on the potting point of the ball. if your looking at the white on striking the white then quite often you will lose the line of the shot and miss more often than not. hope this helps and you understood most of it lol
[Dr. Seuss]
...or over a rail or using masse
or having to bridge an unusual way.
If I don't use CB-last once then I'll say
that it's been an extremely unusual day.
[/Dr. Seuss]
pj
chgo
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What Frazz said is right if you can understand real english !
OK Colonists he said look at the object ball last.
OK Colonists he said look at the object ball last.
What percentage of pro snooker players get regular coaching?
pj
chgo
My gut feeling is pretty low, but don't have any evidence to back this up.
I have mentioned the top snooker coach Frank Callan in another post. Steve Davis, 6 times world snooker champion, and the player above all others who has long been regarded (rightly or wrongly) as having the perfect textbook technique, is quoted as saying of Callan:
"Frank Callan is one of a very select band of people who have insight into the technical [snooker] game at the highest level. He is one of the few men I've ever talked to in depth about technique, simply because there aren't many people with whom I can have that kind of conversation"
This is what Callan has to say on the subject:
"Having looked at the pocket and decided the spot on the object ball that must be hit, address the cue ball where you intend to hit it....You should now be 95 per cent certain of potting the ball. You begin your waggle [the warm-up strokes] trying to 'feel' the shot you are about to play.
On finishing the waggles, address the cue ball for the last time and take a final look at the cue ball to make certain it is going to be hit in the right place. Get your eyes back onto the object ball before coming through with the cue. This is what I call the 5 per cent. ...
How many times have you seen professional players miss simple shots and wondered why? This is usually because they have neglected the 5 per cent, that is, getting the eyes back on the object ball.
I don't claim that 95 per cent and 5 per cent are mathematically accurate, but the terms are there for you to relate to."
The full piece is here It is talking about the general technique that he recommends, not special situations such as awkward bridging, masses etc (and with no disrespect to Mr C, I would guess that what he knows about breaking or jumping could be written on the side of a matchbox!)
FWIW, when I play, look at the o.b. last, except in some of the special situations that PJ and others have mentioned. In particular, c.b. last for jacking up and masses (but in my case not for breaking or rail shots).
But when I deliver my final stroke, even though I am looking at the o.b., I am concentrating on the c.b., and on contacting it where I had been addressing it.
Try this you might like it take a second to look at the shot. line it up real good before you get down .before you get down you should already know the speed you want to hit the balls. during your pre strokes aim your tip at were you want to hit the cue ball and glance at were you want to hit the o/b make sure you got the spot on the cue ball you want to hit then look and keep your eyes fixed on the o/b spot don't take your eyes off that spot till you pull the trigger. deliver the shot with purpose. remember the speed you want to hit the ball with and make it happen. and oh yah don't forget to breath.It might seem like alot but it just might work......just a suggestion try it out.
Unfortunately there is no set answer.....
You're going to have to find what's best for you and practice it as your pre shot routine until it's second nature to you.
What I do is this.
1.) I pull an imaginary ball out of the pocket and draw it back to where the object ball is sitting
2.) I pull an imaginary ball back from the object ball to where the Cue Ball is sitting
3.) I look at the line down the center of the path of the imaginary Cue Ball.
4.) I bring my cue down to the table in line with that line.
5.) I practice stroke while looking at the tip as it goes through the cueball and then follow it with my eyes to the object ball.
6.) I repeat step 5.
7.) I stroke while looking at the object ball and focusing on letting the Cue stick do the work.
That's my current preshot routine which seems to work best for me (when I do it) You'll have to try different things to find what works best for you.
It basically comes down to whatever lets you stay focused on the shot and not deviating from it.
IT's slightly different when I use English, but that's the jist of it.
Jaden
In my ongoing quest to become at least halfway proficient at this game (so I dont have to be embarresed to tell people I have a table in my basement
My question would be ones final destination of the eyes. I've heard lots of different things: picture a ghost ball; secquence down the shot line to the object ball before moving the cue forward on the final stroke; and I remember Bartram saying he focuses in on a small spot on the object ball during his final stroke. On the other hand, I thought I read somewhere that Earl looks at the cue ball when hes pulling the trigger.
During my practice Ive found focusing too much on the object ball seems to take me out of the rhythm of shooting and often causes me to cinch on shots instead of moving the rock like im supposed too.
Anyhow, I was hoping I could hear a few opinions from you fine folks. Do you have one and only one sequence that you use? if so what is it? or do you do different things for different shots?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
You're going to have to find what's best for you and practice it as your pre shot routine until it's second nature to you.
What I do is this.
1.) I pull an imaginary ball out of the pocket and draw it back to where the object ball is sitting
2.) I pull an imaginary ball back from the object ball to where the Cue Ball is sitting
3.) I look at the line down the center of the path of the imaginary Cue Ball.
4.) I bring my cue down to the table in line with that line.
5.) I practice stroke while looking at the tip as it goes through the cueball and then follow it with my eyes to the object ball.
6.) I repeat step 5.
7.) I stroke while looking at the object ball and focusing on letting the Cue stick do the work.
That's my current preshot routine which seems to work best for me (when I do it) You'll have to try different things to find what works best for you.
It basically comes down to whatever lets you stay focused on the shot and not deviating from it.
IT's slightly different when I use English, but that's the jist of it.
Jaden