Given how the vast majority of "luck shots" in 9 ball and 10 ball come from lucky safes rather than balls being slopped, what you're suggesting barely even scratches the surface of removing luck from the game. Personally I'd like to see the 10 ball, but only the 10 ball, have to called at any point during the game (i.e. no slopping the cheese), but I'd also require all safes to be called, with one called 2-way shot allowed per game. For any other miss that leaves a player's opponent snookered, the incoming player should have the option of making the first player shoot again.
Do you think 9-ball would be better or worse if a mandatory push out after the break became a standard rule?
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
The alternate break disrupts the tempo, mental state, and rhythm of the player who has just won the game and then now has to give up the table to his opponent. When players are in a “zone” and running racks, you bring them out of the “zone” by forcing them to sit on the bench while you use stalling tactics.
That is absolutely correct, but the statement reads "that the other player doesn't know what to do." At the pro level, part of their decision making is on shot percentage. Giving the shot back also falls into the category of knowing what to do (i.e. or what "not" to do).
Very true... I will admit I do enjoy watching player string together racks. That said, I do appreciate the drama of breaking the opponent's "serve".
If you have paid attention to your opponent’s game enough, you will know which shots they are comfortable with and those that they are leery of.
Before I push, I know exactly what I am going to do with the shot if it is given back to me. My opponent then has to try to think of what I was thinking before I pushed. It is a mind game, when actually you should only be thinking of the table layout instead of “what would he do?”
Pushing is an art.
Completely agree....
This has been tried in what was called the "Accu-stats Game Show" and it was quite enjoyable, but it was a novelty. To play this way on occasion would be OK by me, but this should never become the standard rule set.
The monumental struggles we just saw at the Mosconi should quiet the "nine ball is too easy crowd" around here for a while. Per At Large, Team USA won just 46% of the racks in which it broke. That means that if they'd been spotted the break by Europe for the entire Mosconi Cup, they still probably would have lost. Of course, part of that is due to the fact that tough equipment was used, but elite players SHOULD be competing on tough equipment with neutral rackers.
For both nine ball and ten ball, the thing that can make it too easy is "rack your own." Remove the rack mechanic issue and the pattern racking issue from these games and they are both excellent games. With rack your own and pattern racking, as Chris Melling has observed, both games are a little broken. Without them, these are great games and winner breaks could be used in all major competitions.
The monumental struggles we just saw at the Mosconi should quiet the "nine ball is too easy crowd" around here for a while. Per At Large, Team USA won just 46% of the racks in which it broke. That means that if they'd been spotted the break by Europe for the entire Mosconi Cup, they still probably would have lost. Of course, part of that is due to the fact that tough equipment was used, but elite players SHOULD be competing on tough equipment with neutral rackers.
For both nine ball and ten ball, the thing that can make it too easy is "rack your own." Remove the rack mechanic issue and the pattern racking issue from these games and they are both excellent games. With rack your own and pattern racking, as Chris Melling has observed, both games are a little broken. Without them, these are great games and winner breaks could be used in all major competitions.
I’m not advocating it...I said I’m not sure if I like the idea or not. Some pros have advocated for it and I’m wondering what people think about it.
Pretty much everyone that I have ever seen advocate it were players that couldn’t run packages or those that didn’t break as well as their opponents.
of course those that dont break as well or know how to rack are against it.
and for good reason as knowing the trick to breaking or racking makes that the primary skill determining who wins the match.
on tables where the corner balls dont fly in or the two above them then the game looks better. but then it becomes which table you play on determines the winner.
and for good reason as knowing the trick to breaking or racking makes that the primary skill determining who wins the match.
on tables where the corner balls dont fly in or the two above them then the game looks better. but then it becomes which table you play on determines the winner.
Don’t like it – it makes the break shot completely meaningless.
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i don't reall saying anything about removing luck. that's always going to be there. call shot/safe is the most boring form of pool one can play. 10b last makes it even worse.
and done 
Worst, for TV and for sponsors, if you mean for real games, we know that break shot is a luck shot, so yea maybe for gambling.
But if you want to make pool a game where audience can watch, i.e. non pool players, then if you make a pushout shot after each break, that would kill it even more than it already is, I mean it is dead right now, but it can even kill it to the point where even pool players don't watch.
How to make pool great for tv? that non-pool players watch it?
Ok, play 7ball, with a screaming audience like the Mosconi, put mics on players and let them have personalities and not be boring, I mean seriously, 7ball with every mistake a ball in hand, and you have one option of playing safe, thats how it should be.
But if you want to make pool a game where audience can watch, i.e. non pool players, then if you make a pushout shot after each break, that would kill it even more than it already is, I mean it is dead right now, but it can even kill it to the point where even pool players don't watch.
How to make pool great for tv? that non-pool players watch it?
Ok, play 7ball, with a screaming audience like the Mosconi, put mics on players and let them have personalities and not be boring, I mean seriously, 7ball with every mistake a ball in hand, and you have one option of playing safe, thats how it should be.
Put the one in the back and you have to kick break.
See how that plays out.
See how that plays out.
A mandatory push out would be much worse, IMO.
surlytempo
Member
lol. Seems the worst people to ask about changes and possible improvements to pool are middling pool players themselves. They're too clouded by either tradition or personal preference.
st louie, louie would push out to where mortals would push out from, those crazy thin cut shots along the short rail from anywhere on the table. didn't make them all but made enough of them that you didn't want him shooting them
