Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

  • I always go by feel

    Votes: 153 53.5%
  • Usually by feel, with aiming systems for hard shots

    Votes: 68 23.8%
  • Usually with aiming systems, by feel for easy shots

    Votes: 24 8.4%
  • I always use aiming systems

    Votes: 26 9.1%
  • I just hit balls very hard and hope they sink

    Votes: 15 5.2%

  • Total voters
    286

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...but this is wrong....

Aiming systems do not work.. Even the basic ones.

For example, shooting a ball that is 5 feet away, to the left with hard inside, top... you are actually "aiming" on the left side of the OB.. As you hit the ball softer, you start adjusting more to the right to eventually, when you hit that shot super soft, you actually "aim" to miss the OB on the right side..

"Aiming" is about shooting enough balls that your brain figures out about where to hit the CB to make the OB go in a hole that is hopefully big enough...

Anyone that advocates "aiming systems" basically thinks they are using something, but their mind makes subconscious adjustments to put them in correct alignment.. They attribute it to their "system" when its really not..

Uh oh, another pro player saying aiming systems do not work:) I'm just a low B player, but I feel the exact way you do. And your simple shot scenario above of the high left hit on the CB is a perfect example of what really happens during an actual shot.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Haha.. This is the part that "aiming aficionados" try to ignore...

The difference between making a shot and missing a shot when the OB is 3 feet or more from the pocket is only a matter of about 2 mm at the contact point.. Less as you move further away.. Aiming systems won't get you anywhere near this range, save for a couple of almost straight in, no english, medium speed type shots..
And it gets smaller as the distance to the pocket grows. At twice the distance (6'), the OB contact area is half the size (1mm).

For comparison, fractional aiming only gets you to within about 10-11mm - from there it's all feel.

pj
chgo
 
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NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If your eyes are open when you are shooting, then you're aiming and using whatever "system" works for you, whether you're conscious of it or not. The only way anyone can play by "feel" is to play with their eyes closed.
 
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NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In other words, your definition of "feel" is different from everybody else. Thanks for the info.

pj
chgo

Or in other words, no one here knows what aiming or feel are. Is alignment not aiming? My point is regardless of whether you're conscious of it or not, everyone aims and everyone uses their system. Thanks for your quick response. Do you get paid to monitor and post here? Because you are on it!
 

SamLambert

Daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
Why the need to be so pedantic?

The intention/meaning of the question was obvious.

Do I really need to edit the question to mention "conscious aiming system not based exclusively on what you think is gonna sink the ball" instead?
 

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why the need to be so pedantic?

The intention/meaning of the question was obvious.

Do I really need to edit the question to mention "conscious aiming system not based exclusively on what you think is gonna sink the ball" instead?

Yes, SamLambert. The intention is obvious, I'll give you that. Not hard to look up the many past threads on aiming and see where they have gone. Knock yourself out rookie.
 

Banks

Banned
...but this is wrong....

Aiming systems do not work.. Even the basic ones.

For example, shooting a ball that is 5 feet away, to the left with hard inside, top... you are actually "aiming" on the left side of the OB.. As you hit the ball softer, you start adjusting more to the right to eventually, when you hit that shot super soft, you actually "aim" to miss the OB on the right side..

"Aiming" is about shooting enough balls that your brain figures out about where to hit the CB to make the OB go in a hole that is hopefully big enough...

Anyone that advocates "aiming systems" basically thinks they are using something, but their mind makes subconscious adjustments to put them in correct alignment.. They attribute it to their "system" when its really not..

You've got to admit, though, it's a lot harder to put that on a dvd and sell it. :thumbup:

Maybe a troll will come along and say you're wrong.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You "go by feel" no matter what you subscribe to. Systems can make it seem like there's no feel involved (and that can help your confidence), but it isn't really true.

pj
chgo

If I'm reading correctly, I agree totally with that.

Now that we are talking about "feel", it brings me to the subject of Earl Strickland. I haven't heard everything he has ever said about pool, but a couple years back I heard him say something in an interview that I found interesting.

He said the reason he wore all the gloves and wraps and stuff all over his hands (sometimes both hands) and cues was that he "didn't want to FEEL the cue".

If he isn't "feeling" the cue, is he playing "AIR CUE" and just going through the "motions"?
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Haha.. This is the part that "aiming aficionados" try to ignore...

The difference between making a shot and missing a shot when the OB is 3 feet or more from the pocket is only a matter of about 2 mm at the contact point.. Less as you move further away.. Aiming systems won't get you anywhere near this range, save for a couple of almost straight in, no english, medium speed type shots..


Well Adam, you can believe that all you want to, but it doesn't make it true. You simply don't know what you don't know.
 

Banks

Banned
Well Adam, you can believe that all you want to, but it doesn't make it true. You simply don't know what you don't know.

And therein lies the problem with the aiming arguments. Pros have said they disagree with what's presented, physics majors have said the same, aiming advocates use that same argument against "feelers", but then it comes back full circle to using those exact words in defense of aiming systems. CTE was "perfect from the beginning", yet has had numerous updates.
 

Wybrook

A. Wheeler
Silver Member
Well Adam, you can believe that all you want to, but it doesn't make it true. You simply don't know what you don't know.

Haha... That's one of the best lines all day..

The issue is, I do know.
I know...and I can execute..

I think Aiming systems are fantastic for people learning to play pool so they are at least aiming at the correct side of the ball.. Once you become a little better, you cannot use them anymore as they are not accurate. Either you have not reached that level or you adjust subconsciously and don't realize it.. Either way, you are incorrect..

You can argue all you want, but your statement is more a self-reflection than anything else.. I can break any aiming system in one shot.. (and I don't mean there is just 1 shot that doesn't work, in case you want to be literal)
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
If I'm reading correctly, I agree totally with that.

Now that we are talking about "feel", it brings me to the subject of Earl Strickland. I haven't heard everything he has ever said about pool, but a couple years back I heard him say something in an interview that I found interesting.

He said the reason he wore all the gloves and wraps and stuff all over his hands (sometimes both hands) and cues was that he "didn't want to FEEL the cue".

If he isn't "feeling" the cue, is he playing "AIR CUE" and just going through the "motions"?

Here's my 2 cents on what he may have meant.

But first let's see if we can head some off at the pass. Yes very good players can play with anything right off the wall.

Now that that is out of the way, I think what Earl might have meant is that he does not want to get ANY bad vibes from the cue.

When I have my cue that feels really good to me, it's like it isn't even there or it's a part of my arm.

When I have a cue that does not feel good, I get all kinds of bad vibes from it that can get into my head.

I think Earl knows that his stroke is fine & wants to just have that & no bad vibes from the cue.

I certainly could be wrong & do not need to be told so.

Earl is not your normal player... & that is a compliment to him.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And therein lies the problem with the aiming arguments. Pros have said they disagree with what's presented, physics majors have said the same, aiming advocates use that same argument against "feelers", but then it comes back full circle to using those exact words in defense of aiming systems. CTE was "perfect from the beginning", yet has had numerous updates.

CTE has not had "updates" per say, but Stan has put out many videos that present the same material in different ways because different people learn differently.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Haha... That's one of the best lines all day..

The issue is, I do know.
I know...and I can execute..

I think Aiming systems are fantastic for people learning to play pool so they are at least aiming at the correct side of the ball.. Once you become a little better, you cannot use them anymore as they are not accurate. Either you have not reached that level or you adjust subconsciously and don't realize it.. Either way, you are incorrect..

You can argue all you want, but your statement is more a self-reflection than anything else.. I can break any aiming system in one shot.. (and I don't mean there is just 1 shot that doesn't work, in case you want to be literal)

Sorry Adam, but your statement alone shows you don't know what you don't know. I know there are at least 26 aiming systems out there. No way you have tried them all with enough time to definitely state that none of them work. My level of play is plenty high enough to know exactly how I aim. You don't even admit that you use an aiming system, and don't even realize that you do. It is impossible to make any ball without using some kind of system. Not going to argue it with you. But, despite your level of play, you simply aren't qualified to make the statement you have.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
And it gets smaller as the distance to the pocket grows. At twice the distance (6'), the OB contact area is half the size (1mm).

For comparison, fractional aiming only gets you to within about 10-11mm - from there it's all feel.

pj
chgo

The OB contact area can also become smaller at the same distance, depending on OB angles into the pocket.
A 40 degree cut angle will accept balls using a slightly larger contact area than an OB cut angle of 20 degrees.

The pocket mouth is widest when the OB enters from 45 degrees. Again IMO

.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's beginning to sound a bit like Rumsfeld in here now...


"there are no "knowns." There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know. "
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Sorry Adam, but your statement alone shows you don't know what you don't know. I know there are at least 26 aiming systems out there. No way you have tried them all with enough time to definitely state that none of them work. My level of play is plenty high enough to know exactly how I aim. You don't even admit that you use an aiming system, and don't even realize that you do. It is impossible to make any ball without using some kind of system. Not going to argue it with you. But, despite your level of play, you simply aren't qualified to make the statement you have.

I'd place my $$$ on Adam.
 

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been reading/watching a lot of information since I started playing pool. I watched videos, I bought DVDs, I read books and they almost always mention aiming systems.

I tried most of them, maybe I didn't spend enough time using them, but I can't seem to end up liking them more than going by feel. Going by feel seems to work just fine for me and I can only guess it will get even better with time, while I feel aiming systems are a bit unnatural and takes from your concentration.

What do you guys do? Aiming systems or feel? A bit of both?

Oh boy, this type of question always recharges a heated debate that goes on and on.

That being said, I will start by telling you that there probably is not one correct answer that is true for every person. People have different strengths in their approach and even have differences in their dominant eye. There are many things that can influence what works best for each person, so to some extent, you will have try and see what works for you.

I will also tell you that it it highly unlikely that any aiming system you use will just "click" for you to the point that you will love it right away. Like everything else in pool, it will take time to implement correctly, and even more before it becomes a seamless part of your game. So to say that you tried some and just don't like them that much when you haven't given what you are using a legitimate amount of time to properly learn, probably isn't a fair test as to what will work for you.

Personally, I use CTE. While it took me a fair amount of time to get good at it, it has vastly improved my ball pocketing abilities. I now approach shots with confidence that I would previously have thought about playing safe on, or been nervous to shoot at. I don't really care about the great debate between the aiming systems and feel, I just want to make more balls. For me, there were plenty of shots where aiming was an issue, so I tried different methods to see if my ball pocketing would improve. Since I have used CTE it has gotten much better, and their are just too many shots that I make now where I really can't see the pocket enough to induce feel into the system, that I find it hard to believe that the system does not work as advertised as suggested by some.

Either way, it will be something you will have to try to figure out what is best for you. You will get some good info in a thread like this, but you will get a lot more highly bias info that you will have to sift through. Good luck in your pursuit of an always improving game of pool.
 
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