Do you use IVORY ferrule?

8

8onthebreak

THE WORLD IS YOURS
Silver Member
Deflection seems to be caused by end mass...I've always wanted to use ivory ferrule but have tried some and am experiencing a lot of deflection...

I assume ivory is heavier than phenolic, and I'm wondering if it adds any significant amount of deflection???

Maybe it's just the shafts I've got?

Other than the obvious aesthetics, is there any benefit or reason to be using ivory for the ferrule?

I also understand that ivory is softer than most. Phenolics, and while most folks are out for that hard hit...???

I would like to hear from some folks with experience on the matter, as I'm currently having a couple cues built and need to make some decisions soon on ferrule material.
 
Theoretically speaking, more mass will deflect more...as will natural grained materials vs man made. The deflection is not a problem in my opinion though. One learns to adjust until it is second nature. The issue, for me, isn't how much a shaft/ferrule deflects, but how consistent it deflects. Ivory feels right to me, shoots where I aim and in my hands plays fair...in a better player's hands, watch out.

More recently, I've enjoyed playing with John Showman and Bob Manzino low deflection ferrules. They're shorter and with the reduced weight, deflect very little. This design doesn't have to be expensive. Steve Dunkel offers a short ferrule on a great hitting cue for $350-$450.

If you want to try a superb hitting cue with a big 1.25" ivory ferrule, go for a Schick. Bill's cues can do just about anything with that ferrule... I guess there is a lot more to deflection control than simple mass on a shaft.
 
8onthebreak said:
Deflection seems to be caused by end mass...I've always wanted to use ivory ferrule but have tried some and am experiencing a lot of deflection...

I assume ivory is heavier than phenolic, and I'm wondering if it adds any significant amount of deflection???

Maybe it's just the shafts I've got?

Other than the obvious aesthetics, is there any benefit or reason to be using ivory for the ferrule?

I also understand that ivory is softer than most. Phenolics, and while most folks are out for that hard hit...???

I would like to hear from some folks with experience on the matter, as I'm currently having a couple cues built and need to make some decisions soon on ferrule material.
Click to expand...

My preference is Ivory ferrules i prefer 12mm tips also which may compensate for the heavier than plastic or phenolic Ivory, when it comes to squirt characteristics.

I like the hit, the sound the look and that they are pretty easy to keep clean.

It's really about preference. If you like it don't let anyone sway you from your equipment. There are some people that want you to have the same kind of equipment they use and some more who want to use something because their favorite pro uses it. Best case, try before you buy and buy with confidence that its' what "you" want.

Good Luck.
 
Ivory Ferrules

I've owned lot's of cues both phenolic and ivory ferruled.

Personally I could run racks and racks as well with either.

Until somebody decided to start measuring deflection in shafts for marketing, I don't remember it being a big subject with great players I ever watched or talked or seemed to care about it.

I remember someone telling me Mike Sigel marked his shaft so he always had the same deflection on all shots with that mark up.

I don't remember every seeing Irving Crane or Willie Mosconi marking or adjusting their shafts for deflection when I watched them play 14.1

However, that being said. Who will really win in the end technology or skill.

Which will you enjoy watching the robot beat your pants off with technology or your skill never letting it get to the table.
 
ivory

i have ivory ferrules on my hunter and my coker i also will use water buffalo black ivory never had one break yet but im sure it will happen some day.

i have screwed up some ivory ferrules drilling and tapping it can be touchy. but wow on polishing them out very nice.
mike
 
tastes great vs. less filling

unfortunately it's not like miller lite.

i love the way ivory hits, but it does deflect like a dirty politician.

i'm rather fond of micarta, kinda the best of both worlds, hit's nice and crisp but IMHO doesn't deflect nearly as much as ivory.
 
I would say get what is most readily available and get used to what it does. We don't use clay balls any more.
 
FairportFats said:
I've owned lot's of cues both phenolic and ivory ferruled.

Personally I could run racks and racks as well with either.

Until somebody decided to start measuring deflection in shafts for marketing, I don't remember it being a big subject with great players I ever watched or talked or seemed to care about it.

I remember someone telling me Mike Sigel marked his shaft so he always had the same deflection on all shots with that mark up.

I don't remember every seeing Irving Crane or Willie Mosconi marking or adjusting their shafts for deflection when I watched them play 14.1

However, that being said. Who will really win in the end technology or skill.

Which will you enjoy watching the robot beat your pants off with technology or your skill never letting it get to the table.
Click to expand...
Deflection is not an issue in 90% of the shots you shoot. In 14.1 just bumping balls around mostly close up it is almost never an issue. 9 ball it comes up as you shoot long shots with spin but even in 9 ball most of the time you are not hitting balls with such force or spin for to really matter either.
 
I like ivory, the hit is to my liking, it cleans up really well, looks great, and I haven't had any squirt / deflection problems. Ivory is beautiful. My full time player is a Tucker with ivory ferrules (2 shafts) 12.75mm, been playing with it steady since '02 and I can aim with absolute confidence with, or without, english. I say go with ivory.
 
I have an ivory ferrule for a Schon shaft, the shafts for my Phillipi, and the shafts for my Rund all have ivory ferrules. Myself I have always preferred the sense of hit coming through an ivory ferrule. As to the issue of deflection coming through a given ferrule type, I feel you have more of an impact coming through a ferrule based on it's length than through the specific type of material. You look at the history of cue design in europe, and you will find that the vast majority of european cues have been designed with a short length ferrule. It's what you tend to find on carom cues.

For all the time that I have played I have never felt the need to invest in some form of deflection reducing shaft. Just for the fact that nearly everyone I know that has purchased predator cues, predator shafts, ob shafts, and any other form of deflection reducing shaft has ever truly elevated their game enough for me think "Whoa...!" that's a big difference in their playing level. In nearly every instance I have seen people have their game go down for a period of time til they adjust to the the new shaft. And once they get their adjustment made, they pretty get right back to where the shooting level they were at before the shaft change. Consequently I have never impressed by such shafts that I have tested or that my friends have bought and adapted too.

It's been my experience instead that more improvement has been made in one's playing skills by actually working on improving one's fundamentals, and trying to incorporate new shot types, new strategies, new skills into one's existing skill set.
 
I also prefer ivory ferrules. Deflection isn't an issue for me either probably because I've been playing since well before deflection was invented. :grin: I've just adjusted a long time ago I suppose, and really don't have to put any conscious thought into potential squirt. I've never blamed a miss on an unexpected amount of deflection.

I like the look,feel and hit of ivory. And as Fats said, it is real easy to maintain and keep clean and I like a clean ferrule.
 
i personally am not the biggest fan of ivory ferrules... it was the standard a long time ago, but now whith all hte technology out there improving our equipment, ivory is just not worth using. That being said, it looks great and is nice to have. As far as the comment earlier about playing good with it, i believe that you can get used to and play to the best of your abilities with anything. This is my 2 cents worth, take it for what its worth.
 
iF your re using a diameter, like for example Rufus (aka Dr9Ball) about 12 mm, you already will have a shaft, that will have low deflection. But you shouldn t forget, that the taper has also influence.

But i wouldn t think too much about this-- No matter what you re using:
the only thing what is REALLY IMPORTANT is, that you STAY WITH IT-and then you just learn to handle it:)

lg
Ingo
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I also prefer ivory ferrules. Deflection isn't an issue for me either probably because I've been playing since well before deflection was invented. :grin: I've just adjusted a long time ago I suppose, and really don't have to put any conscious thought into potential squirt. I've never blamed a miss on an unexpected amount of deflection.

I like the look,feel and hit of ivory. And as Fats said, it is real easy to maintain and keep clean and I like a clean ferrule.
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how would you describe the hit from ivory as opposed to phenolic...specifically?

most people are out for the firm hit, ivory is softer than phenolic right?

trying to understand the "Hit" difference?

I have several cues, and not used to alot of deflection as im mainly Predator user, and my Lambros has very little deflection as well...

would like to be able to take different cues for a ride at will, but I cant reshape my game every time to major deflection differences everytime I pull a different cue out. This is why I'm wondering if Ivory would add major deflection, as I would simply forego in that case.
 
8onthebreak said:
how would you describe the hit from ivory as opposed to phenolic...specifically?

most people are out for the firm hit, ivory is softer than phenolic right?

trying to understand the "Hit" difference?

I have several cues, and not used to alot of deflection as im mainly Predator user, and my Lambros has very little deflection as well...

would like to be able to take different cues for a ride at will, but I cant reshape my game every time to major deflection differences everytime I pull a different cue out. This is why I'm wondering if Ivory would add major deflection, as I would simply forego in that case.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I can describe it as it's a feel thing. As far as if ivory adds major deflection I'm really not the guy to ask because as I said before, I've adjusted a long time ago and I don't have enough experience with LD shafts. But I do have cues which I use that don't have ivory ferrules and I don't make any conscious change in how I aim with them. And as I said, I've never blamed a miss on an unexpected amount of deflection. Of course I'm not saying deflection doesn't exist, just that whatever differences there are between my cues with different ferrules I guess I've made the adjustment subconsciously. While phenolic may be harder than ivory I don't know that it has more mass. I've heard ivory is up there on the deflection scale because of this. But maybe it is the mass that produces what I feel as a solid hit, and not the hardness of the material. Ivory is not exactly soft either. Ivory is probably more brittle than phenolic and perhaps that plays a part in how it feels. Find someone you know with an ivory ferrule and give it a try. Feel is a personal thing, once size doesn't fit all. ;)
 
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On my original Schon shafts,one still has the original ferrule on it,right at 20 years old with no cracks.

The other original shaft has had the ferrule replaced by me,but the original ferrule lasted for 19 years.

Having installed several now for other customers,and having worked on phenolics as well,on top of training as a machinist,this is the best way I can describe it.

Ivory is in fact HARDER than phenolic,or at least it feels like it to me.

However,phenolic is TOUGHER,meaning harder to machine,sand,polish,and to an extent,harder to break than ivory.

It's kind of like the difference between plain or "mild" steel,and 4140 Cr-Mo.

To be honest,you just about can't break an ivory ferrule unless you have Nevel-like power in your stroke.

The simplest way to make sure an ivory ferrule lasts forever is 100% weather care,just don't leave your cues ANY place you wouldn't sleep,and if you do,let it acclimate before jumping into battle.

Not only do I believe in them as a player,once I start making cues they will be the standard.

Some people like them,but I personally prefer mine without the pad.

Just don't the the tip get down too thin,and you'll be fine. Tommy D.
 
As far as ivory ferrules vs anything else, it's a pool cue. As long as it's straight and the tip is good, I can shoot with it.

This thread reminds me of a John Lennon quote from Rolling Stone many years ago, "I'm an artist, and if you give me a tuba, I'll bring you something out of it"

It is apt here too.."I'm a pool player, if you give me a pool cue I'll make a shot with it."

I think the differences between ferrule materials might make up .006% of your ability to actually make a shot. Especially the higher up you go in the talent area. Great players can play with mediocre equipment. As I believe a lot of the talent in being a great player is to overcome tiny shortcomings in equipment, like ferrule material.

Efren has played with sticks that wouldn't fetch 300.00...doesn't seem to hurt his game. lol
 
I think the ferrule acts more as a vibration dampener, not so much as something you can feel the hardness of. Its something some people are more or less sensitive too. Ivory is basically bone, it has a unique structure not like any manmade substance. Its is a combination of hard and soft material arranged in particular striated pattern and has unique dampening properties because of that.

The bottom line is try it, if you like it use it, if not then don't. If your looking for the absolute lowest possible deflection in a shaft then its likely that feel is not of the highest priority to you anyway.
 
Soulweb said:
As far as ivory ferrules vs anything else, it's a pool cue. As long as it's straight and the tip is good, I can shoot with it.

This thread reminds me of a John Lennon quote from Rolling Stone many years ago, "I'm an artist, and if you give me a tuba, I'll bring you something out of it"

It is apt here too.."I'm a pool player, if you give me a pool cue I'll make a shot with it."

I think the differences between ferrule materials might make up .006% of your ability to actually make a shot. Especially the higher up you go in the talent area. Great players can play with mediocre equipment. As I believe a lot of the talent in being a great player is to overcome tiny shortcomings in equipment, like ferrule material.

Efren has played with sticks that wouldn't fetch 300.00...doesn't seem to hurt his game. lol
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Can't disagree with anything you posted, but you miss the point. If you have a choice between two pool cues, one of which you really like the feel of more than the other, which will you buy? Sure, both will get the job done, but don't you think it is reasonable that you just might play a little better with the cue that feels right to you, that you like the "hit" of? Further, lets forget for a moment even a marginal difference in function. Suppose you had a choice between to identical playing pool cues in the $200 range, but the one you liked the looks of better was $10 more. Which one would you buy? From the standpoint of function this choice makes no sense but I maintain there is nothing irrational about paying more for the one you like. It is also reasonable that you might enjoy the game a little more with a cue that feels right or looks nice to you. And it is also perfectly logical to be willing to pay a little more simply to enjoy the experience more, if not play better.

The same is true of a lot of things. A Yugo will get you from point A to point B, but I'd rather make the drive in an Audi. You can listen to music from a transistor radio but I'd prefer a good quality sound system. You can watch TV on a 13" CRT or a 60" in high def.

I don't think there has been one post claiming that ivory is clinically the superior performing ferrule material. Just people responding to the OP asking why they prefer it and are willing to pay for it.
 
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Every thread regarding preference has to have at least one obligatory "Indian not arrow" post even if its completely out if context.

I think its some kind of unwritten law. ;)
 
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