Does a Cue that does not have a patent have any value ?

The King

The King

Here's Jimbo....
Silver Member
I have a freind who feels that any Custom cue that has no patent has no value ... That the only way for anything to hold value is for it to be patented ... Do the major custom cue makers have patents? And how many people feel this is true ? I know alot of custom cue makers that don't have a patent on thier cues but they command a high price ... What does the world of AZ think about this ...
 
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I believe that to file a patent you need to have something unique and very specific. Construction of the predator shaft for example, although I don't know if it's patented. I would venture to say that almost none of today's custom cue makers hold patents on anything. And you're right, a patent is not necessary for their cues to hold value.
Mr H
 
JohnnyOzone said:
I would suggest you stop talking to your friend abut pool cues. :)
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I concur with J Ozone


I'm not sure if there is patent on gold but it does hold some value
 
I think copyright would be more likely then patent but nobody has those either. The only way to patent would be a unique design like they tried to do with the sledgehammer and the one piece tip and ferrule.
 
does custom jewelry have value?

Does custom jewelry have value? I doubt most jewelers patent every design but a nice piece is definitely worth more than the raw materials.

I doubt that NASA patented the entire shuttles and they are wanting 45 million apiece for them after they are worn out.

Hu
 
The King said:
I have a freind who feels that any Custom cue that has no patent has no value ...
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The thread title is actually so bizarre, short sighted, and circular that I have a hard time believing it's anything but a trolling thread...

Ask your "friend" if he's ever heard of a new thing they call ECONOMICS. If there are a few of something, and many people that want it, that thing can have VALUE. I know it's probably a strange concept to your "friend." But ask him about something more everyday, like custom cabinets, or custom shoes, or custom shirts, or custom cars, or custom [fill in the blank]. Those things have inherent VALUE for a number of reasons, patents notwithstanding.

-td
 
the difference in cue makers doesn't lie in patented construction techniques.

the difference in cue makers lies in wood selection and curing...

any cue maker can turn a shaft... the good ones know which shaft to turn...

JMHO
 
I have a 7-piece sectional cue I'm thinking of getting patented.
He can have the prototype for $25,000.
 
Mr Hoppe said:
I believe that to file a patent you need to have something unique and very specific. Construction of the predator shaft for example, although I don't know if it's patented. I would venture to say that almost none of today's custom cue makers hold patents on anything. And you're right, a patent is not necessary for their cues to hold value.
Mr H
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I know of three cue makers, all are now dead who held Patents for specific cue construction techniques. One cue company who mass produces low deflection shafts, and one cue maker who is still building cues and Jump Breaks.

Herman Rambo - Unique cue balance technique, where the cue is cut at the A-joint and a threaded metal dowel of either Brass or Steel is added for the purpose of balancing the cue.

Eddie Laube Custom Cues - Unique Joint Assemble

Ray Schuler Custom Cues - Cues Joint and Weight Bolt assembly.

Predetor Cue Company - Unique Shaft Design, pie shaped wedge laminated and low deflection hollow front end / light weight ferrule assemble.

Mike Gulyassy - Jump / Break Ferrule assemble designed for the Sledgehammer
 
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As far as I know you can't patent something that you didn't design. You can only patent your improvements to that design. I could be wrong there. But I don't think so. I think you can apply for a patent once the original holders time frame is up. I think it maybe is around 20 years or maybe 25 years.

I don't know much about patents but I find it hard to believe that someone could patent something that was showed to them several years before they had it patent.
 
In order to get a patent, the design must be orignal or it has to be a combination of ideas that become original.
Like the 1 piece ferrule tip. A ferrule or a tip on it's own is not original, but combing the two is.
When a patent search is done, it goes back to the earlyist known patents. In the case of a cue tip patent that could be as far back as 1857 or when the first patent of that feature or similar feature was lodged.
Copyright is different and pertains to a specific design or logo or statement. Most music is copyright, and last for about 40 or 50 years, not sure on the exact time frame.
But a patent must be continually paid for , otherwise it will expire. When it is expired, then it becomes public domain.
However, some patents expire , but is continued on in an other patent number, as new features are developed or discovered.
As for cues and the makers having a patent to be valuable, is like saying a car is not woth 23000 because they do not have a patent on it. The patent is really nothing to do with the price.
The price comes from fair market value, or from what the particular cuemakers time and resources to create the cue for that person.
Ultimatley the price is what some one is prepared to pay. But when you want a particular item and it is only available from X supplier, then X suppliers price is the value of the product.

In Patrick's line about seeing something and it being patented years later, take the example of none standard spaced fluted reamers. Many toolmakers like myself made these for more years than can be recalled. Only they were not available comercially. And now will not be , as Boeing recently got a patent on none evenly spaced fluted reamers. Even though they were made by many people through out the world, Boeing now has a patent which prevents myself from selling such an item.
Hope this helps, Neil,

Ps if you paid $15000 for your cue and you like it, and no one else in the world has a cue that is like your cue, I would think that if you refused to sell it for less than you paid for it, it would still be worth $15000.
 
patrickcues said:
As far as I know you can't patent something that you didn't design. You can only patent your improvements to that design. I could be wrong there. But I don't think so. I think you can apply for a patent once the original holders time frame is up. I think it maybe is around 20 years or maybe 25 years.

I don't know much about patents but I find it hard to believe that someone could patent something that was showed to them several years before they had it patent.
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You can patent a square buttplate if you want and claim it makes the cue do wonders.
Getting a patent can lock a stolen idea sometimes.
I don't think patenting anything pool-related is worth anything these days.
 
manwon said:
I know of three cue makers, all are now dead who held Patents for specific cue construction techniques. One cue company who mass produces low deflection shafts, and one cue maker who is still building cues and Jump Breaks.

Herman Rambo - Unique cue balance technique, where the cue is cut at the A-joint and a threaded metal dowel of either Brass or Steel is added for the purpose of balancing the cue.

Eddie Laube Custom Cues - Unique Joint Assemble

Ray Schuler Custom Cues - Cues Joint and Weight Bolt assembly.

Predetor Cue Company - Unique Shaft Design, pie shaped wedge laminated and low deflection hollow front end / light weight ferrule assemble.

Mike Gulyassy - Jump / Break Ferrule assemble designed for the Sledgehammer
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What about the uni-lock joint? Is there a patent there?
 
conetip said:
In Patrick's line about seeing something and it being patented years later, take the example of none standard spaced fluted reamers. Many toolmakers like myself made these for more years than can be recalled. Only they were not available comercially. And now will not be , as Boeing recently got a patent on none evenly spaced fluted reamers. Even though they were made by many people through out the world, Boeing now has a patent which prevents myself from selling such an item.
Hope this helps, Neil,
Click to expand...

It is possible that Boeing got their patent because the patent examiners involved were not aware of the "prior art." Boeing's patent can be challenged and killed if you can produce evidence that the reamers existed for years before Boeing got their patent. You can do this proactively now (costs money, but maybe not much) or reactively if Boeing sues you for patent infringement (riskier, if you fail), but Boeing cannot defend a patent for something something that is essentially already in the public domain.
 
Thanks Shaft.
I still have some of those reamers.
Some are tapered, and others are parallel.
I am not in the reamer selling buisness.
But will keep that in mind.
The advantage of the none even spaced flutes,is that
they make very round holes that would otherwise require
honeing or another operation to make the holes round.

Logos, should be registerd trade make, or copyright.
There have been many instances where a logo or phrase has not been
copyright or made as a trademark, only to loose out to a company with money that has.

Neil
 
Please understand that this is not a trolling thread nor is it a thread to start trouble anyone that knows me knows better then that ... This thread is serious and please refrain from calling my freind names he is a very good man , He would give you the shirt off his back and he is a smart business man who owns and operates his own business. He is also a very good pool player who has always shot with a low end cue like a Viper or Action or Players, He is the type of person a good person that you seldom find and one I am proud to call one of my best friends ... I have long heard him make the statement that a cue has to have a patent to hold value ... I have never bought into it because I feel that anything you have is worth what ever someone else is willing to pay for it ... Like a baseball card some may look at a Alex Rodriguez Rookie card and not pay 2 cents for it ... But the pricing catalog may list the cards value at over 200.00 ....Still if someone is offering to pay you 500.00 for it then the card is valued at 500.00 for you because someone is willing to pay that for it... I have never voiced opposition to his logic because I value his freindship and never wanted to argue the point with him...

There is nothing I would not do for this freind and for Christmas I bought him a Jimmy Lee cue just to see how well he would like a Custom cue and he loves the cue ... Last night I over heard him showing off the cue and honestly the cue performs very well ... I watched him put the cue ball where ever he wanted to put it and draw the cue ball as well or better then I ever seen him do ... I honestly think the cue was giving him more english then what he is use to and once he gets use to that it is going to be a lethal weapon in his hands ... Right now I think he is putting to much english on the cue ball and will have to adjust and make the circle on his cue ball smaller so that he does not throw the object ball out of the pocket with all the english he is putting on it he is certainly going have to allow for more throw then he is use to , I honestly think that he has to adjust from using a cheaper cue with cheaper tips to a good custom with a high quality tip and once he does his game is going to take a huge jump... But while showing off the cue I over heard him say " Look what The King gave me for Christmas it is the best gift I have ever got ... It don't hold any monetary value because it does not hold a patent but I would never sell it anyway it is the best gift I have ever had and the thought of the gift he gave me means more to me then anything."

First thing I may agree with is the in this small little town no one may of ever heard of a Jimmy Lee Custom , Or a Patrick or ever a Searing or Black Boar or Bushka ... So to them it may have little value ... But this cue I got him Jimmy Lee sells for 550.00 and I know that if I posted it on AZ I would get that or close to it out of it ... So it does hold value maybe not in a town where people are not in the know and few even play with much more then Action or Players or as one guy calls his cue The Wolf Pack cue a Walmart cue that has a picture of a Wolf pack on it ...lol.. I know I pull out my Sly or Patrick or one of my customs and these guys get mad at me because most of the time I can put the cue ball where ever I want it with these sticks made by good cue makers that I have total faith in ... I may not always be the better shot but I out think alot of them and my cues give me very good ball control that leave them cussing and fussing ... Some even call me sneaky because of the postion and leaves I can get using a good custom cue and good tip that I have total trust in and get some great leaves while making it look like a honest attempt ...

So please take it easy on my friend he is a very good person who just believes what he believes and I doubt he will ever buy a high dollar cue for himself he just does not believe in it and honestly he has gotten very good playing with the cheaper cues ... He has done alot for me and I just wanted to put a good cue in his hands to see if he sees any difference in it .... To see how he would like shooting with one ...And to bring to light his theory on the patent theory he believes in and argue it with him with out personally confronting him. But most of all to let him know and repay him a little for what he has done for me ... So this is a sincere thread and I am looking for sincere posts with honest opinions and no name calling because when you call names you are belittling a great man that would do anything to help a person out that he considers a friend ... The type of person you seldom see in this world today ... He just believes what he believes ... And I would never think less of him for that ,I just want him to understand why I beleive like I do and see my point of view when it comes to all these customs that I buy and that his patent theory holds very little water .... So please I want to hear all serious posts on this subject then I am going to forward a link to this thread to him ... I wanted to get the opinions of players that are around good cues and bad cues and thier thoughts on patents and if there is any truth to it ... Many of you are pro's or A players or right up there . many of you play in big towns where people know thier cues alot better then some here in our small little town... I have been around and feel I know cues well and the difference ... That is why I try to buy the best equipment I can ... I don't beleive that there is a magic wand out there but I do believe that thier are better quality cues out there ...Just like clothes thier are cheap clothes that do not perform as well or last as long then there are more expensive clothes that do well... Like Levi's -vs- Faded Glory from Walmart.

I think it is ashame that I came on here asking a sincere question and posting a sincere post and that some people had the nerve to give me negative rep for it ... I thought that AZ was a place where you could come here and ask any question as long as it was sincere and get a honest answer without fear of getting punished for it ... I will not retailiate because Im not that way but to those of you that gave me negative rep I will remember it and have a lower opinion of you that did ... In the future it will make me more hesitant to ask questions here ... I posted the title as I did hoping to get more people to look at the thread and give me a reply ..

Thank you ...
 
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Does the Mona Lisa or any of the great paintings have patents ??? This is just another example that I would use ...Again I'm looking for sincere opinions here with out verbal attacks ... To the many of you that have given them I thank you ... And I hope to those who post in this thread will stick to the question and give a honest fact or impression without calling names.
 
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