Allen Hopkins.
Does anybody shoot without taking warmup strokes?
- Thread starter scottycoyote
- Start date
Driving people "Bananas"
and his warmup routine. It was a built in shark to most of his opponents.
He would stroke the shot maybe 30-40 times and just when you thought he
was going to pull the trigger, he?d stand up look the table over, and then
start stroking all over again. (and that was on the easy shots)
He drove us all crazy with his pre-shot (torture) routine.
Rod was a great guy, we ran together a few times. It was hard to watch
him jack that stick off even when you were in with him!
One day I walk into Cochran?s and Rod and Jack Perkins are playing.
I see right away Rod is not playing his ?normal? style.
A railbird (I think it was ? Ears?) gives me the lowdown.
Jack had just lost a set to Rod, playing their usual game which I think
was 9 to 8. Jack ranted a while, over Rod?s slow play, then said he would
Play Rod 9 to 7 with the stipulation that Rod could take no more than 3
warm up strokes than he must shoot, no up and down to start over.
It was a race to five for $200 . Rod won the set 5 to 0, never missed a
ball or a safety. Jack was contemplating suicide, It was a riot.
Dick
Bob, you and some of the old timers must remember ? Bananas ? RodriguezBob Jewett said:
and his warmup routine. It was a built in shark to most of his opponents.
He would stroke the shot maybe 30-40 times and just when you thought he
was going to pull the trigger, he?d stand up look the table over, and then
start stroking all over again. (and that was on the easy shots)
He drove us all crazy with his pre-shot (torture) routine.
Rod was a great guy, we ran together a few times. It was hard to watch
him jack that stick off even when you were in with him!
One day I walk into Cochran?s and Rod and Jack Perkins are playing.
I see right away Rod is not playing his ?normal? style.
A railbird (I think it was ? Ears?) gives me the lowdown.
Jack had just lost a set to Rod, playing their usual game which I think
was 9 to 8. Jack ranted a while, over Rod?s slow play, then said he would
Play Rod 9 to 7 with the stipulation that Rod could take no more than 3
warm up strokes than he must shoot, no up and down to start over.
It was a race to five for $200 . Rod won the set 5 to 0, never missed a
ball or a safety. Jack was contemplating suicide, It was a riot.
Dick
I find that when answering the break shot in straight pool, very often, I'll lay the stick on the end rail, aim that usually existing long shot to the pocket, and softly hit it without ANY back stroke at all. This little tool, has increased my ability to pocket that tough first shot in 14.1 quite a bit.
BVal said:
Is his name BVal.
Jim...Scottycoyote has been to both of our multi-day pool schools, and KNOWS that the speed of warm up strokes has nothing to do with the actual speed of the final stroke. That's not what he's talking about in this post.
He's talking about "one-stroking" vs. his 'normal' warmup cycle.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
He's talking about "one-stroking" vs. his 'normal' warmup cycle.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
av84fun said:
I think Brady's talking about Mitch Ellerman, also Keith isn't know for taking too many warmup strokes
Shooting in the subconscious mode
Ever have a dog run out in front of your car? Did you have to think about every step that needed to happen to put your foot on the brake? It was a reaction and happened lightening quick. It was done to perfection and no thought involved.
I am a real proponent of the pre-shot routine for any player. Shooting balls in quick you are not giving yourself time to think, so, you are probably operating in a subconscious mode. This is really what the mind game in pool is all about your abillity to get to subconscous thinking. Miss any easy shot, we all do it. Make unbelievable run outs and everthing seems so easy like you did not have to think, yep. Most people have experienced the "zone"where the game just seemed so easy. Well, you were probably able to get to a subconscious mode.
So, you really can't play pool with out thinking entirely and this is where the pre-shot routine comes in. There is a time to think and a time to shoot. The time to shoot is not the time to think. Your body knows through repetition what to do when you make that final stroke. I believe the warm up strokes are necassary to transition from the thinking mode to the subconscious mode.
Phil Capelle has monitored pro players and notes that they are usually using the same number of warm up strokes except when shooting difficult shots when they will use more. I took a lesson from Gerda Hoffstetter last year an she tells me that her and Allison Fischer do meditation which is about clearing you mind to get to the subconscious. Really I think good pool players are good at oscilating between conscious and subconscious modes of thinking. The pre-shot routine will help you get there. My 2 pennys......
Ever have a dog run out in front of your car? Did you have to think about every step that needed to happen to put your foot on the brake? It was a reaction and happened lightening quick. It was done to perfection and no thought involved.
I am a real proponent of the pre-shot routine for any player. Shooting balls in quick you are not giving yourself time to think, so, you are probably operating in a subconscious mode. This is really what the mind game in pool is all about your abillity to get to subconscous thinking. Miss any easy shot, we all do it. Make unbelievable run outs and everthing seems so easy like you did not have to think, yep. Most people have experienced the "zone"where the game just seemed so easy. Well, you were probably able to get to a subconscious mode.
So, you really can't play pool with out thinking entirely and this is where the pre-shot routine comes in. There is a time to think and a time to shoot. The time to shoot is not the time to think. Your body knows through repetition what to do when you make that final stroke. I believe the warm up strokes are necassary to transition from the thinking mode to the subconscious mode.
Phil Capelle has monitored pro players and notes that they are usually using the same number of warm up strokes except when shooting difficult shots when they will use more. I took a lesson from Gerda Hoffstetter last year an she tells me that her and Allison Fischer do meditation which is about clearing you mind to get to the subconscious. Really I think good pool players are good at oscilating between conscious and subconscious modes of thinking. The pre-shot routine will help you get there. My 2 pennys......
I came to the thread to say just the same. Tony Drago. He has no time for preliminary strokesWesleyW said:
There were two racks of 8-ball from last European champs at their official site, perhaps they still can be found in Video section at www.europeanpoolchampionships.com . I recall Drago registered two records with running out in about a minute and then 48 seconds! For a rack of 8-ball!
Bigkahuna said:Ever have a dog run out in front of your car? Did you have to think about every step that needed to happen to put your foot on the brake? It was a reaction and happened lightening quick. It was done to perfection and no thought involved.
I am a real proponent of the pre-shot routine for any player. Shooting balls in quick you are not giving yourself time to think, so, you are probably operating in a subconscious mode. This is really what the mind game in pool is all about your abillity to get to subconscous thinking. Miss any easy shot, we all do it. Make unbelievable run outs and everthing seems so easy like you did not have to think, yep. Most people have experienced the "zone"where the game just seemed so easy. Well, you were probably able to get to a subconscious mode.
So, you really can't play pool with out thinking entirely and this is where the pre-shot routine comes in. There is a time to think and a time to shoot. The time to shoot is not the time to think. Your body knows through repetition what to do when you make that final stroke. I believe the warm up strokes are necassary to transition from the thinking mode to the subconscious mode.
Phil Capelle has monitored pro players and notes that they are usually using the same number of warm up strokes except when shooting difficult shots when they will use more. I took a lesson from Gerda Hoffstetter last year an she tells me that her and Allison Fischer do meditation which is about clearing you mind to get to the subconscious. Really I think good pool players are good at oscilating between conscious and subconscious modes of thinking. The pre-shot routine will help you get there. My 2 pennys......
i agree with you, and i want to say im not foregoing my preshot routine other than the practice strokes. My overall time down on the shot probably hasnt changed, im really not playing any faster. The time spent normally taking 3 or 4 warmup strokes, is now spent being still and lining up and aiming....then tack on maybe one warmup stroke and shoot. If i can see any detriment at all to not having warmup strokes it would be a rhythm thing.
i did get some table time in again last night and theres definitely something to this routine as far as my games concerned. thanks for the input
hey scott lee, hope things are going well. Next time youre going thru this part of the country let me know, maybe we can get together and shoot some and i can get another lesson in.
Perhaps you should try the routine Allison uses. If you watch her she really has a long pause on the back stroke. Set, pause, stroke, finish... I tried and was just a little to slow for me. I think I thought you were saying you were shooting fast with out really thinking..
scottycoyote said:
Taking no warm up strokes mostly may succeed because you are forced to take a longer look at the object ball - "Quite Eye Theory".
Plus, it forces you it seems to get the stance and alignment down right off the bat.
Additionally, all that back and forth on warm up strokes is an invitation to moving you head, and not really focusing on the object ball.
But - I will say this - you cannot get the feel of distance as well as you can taking warm up strokes with rhythm.
So the bottom line in all of this is to make sure you get some long pauses in if you are using warm up strokes. i.e. don't loose the Quite Eye effect if you cn.
BVal said:His name is not BVal - The only time I shoot lights out is when the lights are actually out and it is dark in the room.
BVal
or when you break and accidentally swing your cue up into the lights
Raphael Martinez doesn't seem to waste much time with warmup strokes.
Of interest
I rarely shoot with warmup strokes, I am an instinctive player. Warmup strokes never helped me, I look at the table, pick my shot and shoot. I see no value in multiple "warm up strokes". I have a large degree of confidence in my ability to stroke the shot properly. If you can line up your shot, turn your head away from the table, stroke and make the shot then you know you are in the zone. Incidently, I can do this consistently..... Oh, yeah, I'm 64 years old and I'm still as good as I ever was...........
I rarely shoot with warmup strokes, I am an instinctive player. Warmup strokes never helped me, I look at the table, pick my shot and shoot. I see no value in multiple "warm up strokes". I have a large degree of confidence in my ability to stroke the shot properly. If you can line up your shot, turn your head away from the table, stroke and make the shot then you know you are in the zone. Incidently, I can do this consistently.....
Oh, yeah, I'm 64 years old and I'm still as good as I ever was........... Richard Broumpton takes no warmup strokes. I don't know how good a player he is, but I am guessing he is at least a good shortstop. Here is a link to a few of his matches.
http://propoolvideo.com/southeast-open-9-ball-tour/se-open---r.-broumpton-v.-n.-rose.html
http://propoolvideo.com/southeast-open-9-ball-tour/se-open---r.-broumpton-v.-n.-rose.html
developed years ago . . .
Years ago I developed a technique of just moving around the table in time with the cue ball. I would usually be stepping into the shot when the cue ball stopped. The stick was already started forward to strike the cue ball when my bridge hand hit the table. Shoot and move. I shot almost as well like that and it usually rattled opponents which was what it was about. A shame speed pool wasn't around back then.
Now when I occasionally catch myself steering my stroke I'll do the same thing for five or ten minutes. I'm sure that folks at nearby tables think the old varmint has lost his mind but it does get my stroke loose and flowing. Then I take a few snorts from my inhaler and try to get my heartbeat back under 160. It ain't easy being old!
Hu
Years ago I developed a technique of just moving around the table in time with the cue ball. I would usually be stepping into the shot when the cue ball stopped. The stick was already started forward to strike the cue ball when my bridge hand hit the table. Shoot and move. I shot almost as well like that and it usually rattled opponents which was what it was about. A shame speed pool wasn't around back then.
Now when I occasionally catch myself steering my stroke I'll do the same thing for five or ten minutes. I'm sure that folks at nearby tables think the old varmint has lost his mind but it does get my stroke loose and flowing. Then I take a few snorts from my inhaler and try to get my heartbeat back under 160. It ain't easy being old!
Hu