Does anyone here play tournaments, league, or sets... 100% knowing they won't win?

APA Ratings

Creedo,

You are soooo right about APA ratings, they are skewed toward the crowd you habitually play against. That's good reason to travel a bit and play some fresh faces.

I'll even agree with you on the "A" game being out about 10% of the time. Like everything else,"life" gets in the way. I showed up for league nite once after raking leaves all day long. I was beat, told my Captian I didn't want to play, but would be happy to keep score or help out in any way. The numbers came out in the match so that I had to play. WORST game I think I ever played! Other times, I don't practice or practice little, am relaxed and shoot lights-out.
Go Figure. I think you are taking a loss too hard on yourself.
Practice does not guarentee success, It only enhances the possibility of a favorable outcome.

just my 2 cents
 
I "never" feel I can't win, I can b down 6 games in a race to 7 and still feel I have chance to win. I have won from there before. Don't get me wrong I am not running around trying to make bets I am going to win, but I don't count myself out either. Pool is so mental and confidence based that there is no room for negatives in the thought process
 
Any time I enter the few tourneys that are available here, I don't expect much. Even the small in-house ones. I play in them for the experience. I have surprised myself by hanging in for a while in some of the end of session Apa best of the best tourneys, and I always learn more about my own game.

If Maniac is a C, i don't know how far down the alphabet I need to go....maybe "M"? "R"?
:D
 
Since I no longer gamble (more that a FRIENDLY cheap ring game or 3-ball or the like), I can easily say.... Efren, you've got the 8. ;)

I like to play for the game's sake and my own enjoyment of it. Sometimes when I don't feel well, it's impossible to enjoy playing - those times are when I should just bow out beforehand but I never had good sense. :D

So yes, sometimes I play knowing I have little chance of winning... but I never sell myself short in thinking I have NO chance.
 
justadub said:
If Maniac is a C, i don't know how far down the alphabet I need to go....maybe "M"? "R"?
:D
Click to expand...

Guess I'm in the middle of the alphabet too somewhere.

Justadub : Love that avatar ! I never wanted to be lobster before ! :D
 
I agree, you want to play the top players just to how far you hang from them, and it certainly provides more confidence in your own game.

If you play with a bunch of pro's, or top ranked amatuers, then going back to your own league and playing against the league champion seems like a walk in the park :)

I play in Red Shoes 1P events, $50 buy in, with NO shot at winning it unless I bring a little blanket with small pox with me !! But, I don't get to play 1P much cause most of my friends don't like it. But for $50 I get to play at least two sets, and against the best 1P in the midwest, like Ike Runnels, Sergio Perez, Bobby Hunter, etc.

The last time I played, I asked a pretty notbable 1P player why he was NOT playing... and he gave me some excuses, etc... but I truly believe he just knew he could NOT win, and therefore would not enter. It was about the money for him, and not the love of the game. So, for each person it is different....
 
This is kinda hard for me to explain but there's an actual style to high caliber play. The pace, shot selection and decisions are all part of that "style". When you're right in the middle of it, that's when you're going to gain a sense of what you really truly absolutely need to do in order to win that game. I think a lot of intermediate players fail to realize that they already have most of the skills needed to be very good (possibly great) at this game. They just need to shift their way of thinking a bit. There are REALLY successful players out there that are not the most rounded players. Some are great shot-makers, some have great defense. You'll learn a lot about appreciating routine and not-so-routine situations.

It's the best lesson you'll ever get. My advice to you is to take it one match at a time. You have to go into that match thinking you can win. At the same time, don't let thoughts of winning bring out the dog. It's good to know losing is always a possibility and healthy to accept that is a big possibility. Just, don't forget to try to win too.
 
I have played in tournament where I knew my odds were low going in, but I have never accepted that there is NO chance. I have played pool long enough to know that that nothing is 100%.

I think a good way to look at it is this; Enter the tournament with the goal of gaining knowledge and experience. This keeps you in the right frame of mind. Don't focus too much on the what if's, it distracts your mind from what really matters.
 
when i was working and had cash i did it all the time. it's a large part of why, for a while anyway, i played better.
i played in some of shannon's and some of mike janis' events. i played in a bca division that was strong as hell and two sessions in apa masters. and on one occasion gambled with a guy named jeff crawford. jeff gave me the most ridiculous spot and i still didn't think i could win - and i didn't. but i only lost 7-3 or 7-4. not bad to me, i got half way.
why do i play these things? well the tournaments and the leagues i learn, a lot. safes i never would have seen, shots i didn't know, paterns i wouldn't have thought of. and the same with gambling with guys like jeff. but most of all, especially with the gambling thing it was personal. to say that i had the stones to try. jeff offered the game to about 10 people all standing around joking with him and they called me over. no one would take it and they said i should. i asked why the hell should i donate? but then i thought about it. i want that challenge. i want to be that type of person who is not affraid to try. i don't want to be the guy on the rail talking about it. i wanted to do it. and i have gotten a lot of respect for taking up some of the matches i have taken in leagues and so forth. in short it makes me feel good to have people i respect respect me back, even if i'm not on thier level of ability.
 
CreeDo said:
Dumb question right? But I've seen a few guys (C+ players) enter a tournament (tour stop with known pros) just for the experience. They are simply donating and they know it.

And recently I was discussing Master's league with my teammates. We are a pair of sixes and a pair of sevens, and it looks like we don't have any chance in a hall that has AA players stacked up on several teams.

So, does anyone here actually play in situations where they know for sure they lose? Or do they always privately feel they have some small chance?

Does it make any sense to play 'for the experience' if you know you're going to lose? After all, that sort of takes the competitive pressure off... with no hope of winning you don't need to sweat every potential mistake.
Click to expand...

I bring my son in to play in the weekly tournament in Ayer (being from NE you may have gone there), I know he has almost 0 chances of cashing, but it's super good for his game to play new people and players better than him. He's the youngest there by far (he is not even 13 yet), but he has started to come very close to beating some good players and he beats C and D players pretty regularly now. Even though I know he can't win, the more he plays now, the more chance he has of being able to later.

This is actually hurting my game in the tournament by a ton as I'm mostly watching to see what he's up to rather than paying attention to my match.
 
Stones said:
I've known a few guys over the years that would enter tourneys and go 1-2 and out more than 90% of the time.

I had one friend that would actually pray to pull the #1 seed in the first round. He told me how else could he play a great player as cheap as the entry fee in a tournament.

To him it was exciting and gave him bragging rights that he had actually got to play a great player.

I remember one time, one of these guys got into the low end money and after the tourney was over, asked the TD if he could have the tourney chart to take home with him. Man, was he proud. You'd a thought he whipped the world. LOL


Stones
Click to expand...

There was a thread yesterday and a couple of us were saying that a deeper payout promoted the game. This is a prime example of what we meant! Good post! Thank you for sharing!

My philosophy on pool competition is as follows...

Even Efren can't win from his chair. If I let my opponent out of his chair then my result is a matter of luck. As a B player I rely on luck a lot, but I am working on it!!

I have the luxury of getting to play with the likes of Chip Compton, Joey Gray and Shane McMinn a few times a year. I have never walked away from a match with one of these men without feeling I gained something....win or lose.

Why fear failure when failure is the stepping stone to success?

Ken
 
Okie said:
There was a thread yesterday and a couple of us were saying that a deeper payout promoted the game. This is a prime example of what we meant! Good post! Thank you for sharing!

My philosophy on pool competition is as follows...

Even Efren can't win from his chair. If I let my opponent out of his chair then my result is a matter of luck. As a B player I rely on luck a lot, but I am working on it!!

I have the luxury of getting to play with the likes of Chip Compton, Joey Gray and Shane McMinn a few times a year. I have never walked away from a match with one of these men without feeling I gained something....win or lose.

Why fear failure when failure is the stepping stone to success?

Ken
Click to expand...

One of the best sentences I have read on this forum.
 
Maniac said:
Just FTR CreeDo, I'm an APA s/l 7 in 9-ball and a s/l 6 in 8-ball and consider myself to be a C to C+ player on the days I am shooting my norm. Am I over-rating myself, or do you think this is a fair assessment? Serious question.

Maniac
Click to expand...

An APA 7 should be a B level player give or take a half level. I go this by the people I know that used to be 8 and 9s when they played and they are on the B+, A- level. I never played in the APA so can't say exactly, but from what I seen and heard from others, 7-8-9 you are looking B level players and up.
 
I am "donating" to a local tournament that Efren and a few other pros are playing in next month. I know as a low B player I have no chance of winning. I am the guy who is doing it for the experience and also to use as a gauge for next year.
 
CreeDo said:
Dumb question right? But I've seen a few guys (C+ players) enter a tournament (tour stop with known pros) just for the experience. They are simply donating and they know it.

And recently I was discussing Master's league with my teammates. We are a pair of sixes and a pair of sevens, and it looks like we don't have any chance in a hall that has AA players stacked up on several teams.

So, does anyone here actually play in situations where they know for sure they lose? Or do they always privately feel they have some small chance?

Does it make any sense to play 'for the experience' if you know you're going to lose? After all, that sort of takes the competitive pressure off... with no hope of winning you don't need to sweat every potential mistake.
Click to expand...

In the tournaments I play in, if they have 200 entrants maybe 20 have any kind of real chance in hell of winning and usually you could pick 5 favorites and nail the winner.

The other 180 of us want to play pool, because that's what pool players do.

Chris
 
Last edited:
hang-the-9 said:
An APA 7 should be a B level player give or take a half level. I go this by the people I know that used to be 8 and 9s when they played and they are on the B+, A- level. I never played in the APA so can't say exactly, but from what I seen and heard from others, 7-8-9 you are looking B level players and up.
Click to expand...

I think it's hard to translate the two. APA 9-ball isn't real 9-ball. If you're looking at an A player, it's easy to say this will be an APA 9. This is a player who is going to be competent at any pool game. When you look at intermediates, they're going to have varying ratings and that includes comparing APA 9-ball to REAL 9-ball. In fact, I'd venture to say APA 9-ball is so different, they shouldn't even call it 9-ball.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think it's hard to translate the two. APA 9-ball isn't real 9-ball. If you're looking at an A player, it's easy to say this will be an APA 9. This is a player who is going to be competent at any pool game. When you look at intermediates, they're going to have varying ratings and that includes comparing APA 9-ball to REAL 9-ball. In fact, I'd venture to say APA 9-ball is so different, they shouldn't even call it 9-ball.
Click to expand...

APA 9 ball is straight pool with half a rack really :rolleyes:
 
RRfireblade said:
Well....its definitely an attitude thing.

I play pro tournaments I know I "can't win" but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

But I don't play hoping I win, I play for the experience of that level of play and player that I know I won't ever see otherwise.

Yet I keep alive the shred of possibility that if I play my absolute best , anything is possible. Fwiw though , I'm not a C plyer either. ;)

Its all positive mentally in any case.
Click to expand...
That pretty much sums it up for myself as well.

I just recently got back into it after about a 5-6 year break (lost my passion) and have been gambling with people a little above my speed sometimes because I think it will help me get back to at least my previous level (I'm close now) quicker.

btw, that theory hasn't been working out that well for me recently....lol. I am committed though. One thing I've learned is that getting back in stroke and getting back in gambling stroke are two different things.
 
I run out a table maybe once or twice a year but I have to still give it a try. I still say you play the table not the player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top