Does shaft grain

[3RAILKICK]

orientation affect cue tip deflection?

I see some players spin the cue(to a different 'stopped' position) before hitting side spin shots. Is this to orient the shaft grain to promote/inhibit flex at the end of the shaft to help control cb squirt?

I'm trying to tame the 'firm-inside english' monster. It just won't listen.

Just a thought/question?

Thanks

3railkick

 

[mdavis228]

This question speaks to the "spine" in a shaft. Every conventional, non-layered/laminated shaft (piece of wood) has spine - and it is said to cause a shaft to flex differently depending on orientation to the contact point. It's a big part of the basis behind the initial work on low deflection shafts - hence the term radial consistency. At one time, Meucci put a red dot on some of their shafts to mark the spine in some way. Not saying I put too much faith in it.
Searching on shaft "spine" & deflection should get you enough reading to get thru winter.

 

[Sheldon]

orientation affect cue tip deflection?

I'd say no, or very little.
Endmass is primary factor, and even dramatic differences in shaft stiffness changes deflection very little, if at all.
The difference you're talking about is minute, and has almost zero chance of affecting deflection.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

I'm trying to tame the 'firm-inside english' monster. It just won't listen.
Just a thought/question?
Thanks
3railkick

To tame that monster, just aim up the shot as you would with center ball, then change your aim to over cut the ball ever so slightly. Add a little more over-cut for dirty balls, a little more for humid conditions, and a little more for straighter and softer shots. IMO, throw is more at work here than cb deflection.

I like my shaft grain orientation . . . long ways.
Mr H

 

[RocketQ]

In all honesty cb squirt is affected by mass and by shaft stiffness and your bridge in reference to the "sweet spot" of the shaft. It comes down to if the shaft deflects or the cb deflects. This will probably stir the pot of the deflection police but it is after all IMHO.
Deflection has as much to do with how far your bridge hand is from the cue ball as the shaft itself.
Call me if you want to discuss this in detail.

John

 

[Sheldon]

In all honesty cb squirt is affected by mass and by shaft stiffness and your bridge in reference to the "sweet spot" of the shaft. It comes down to if the shaft deflects or the cb deflects. This will probably stir the pot of the deflection police but it is after all IMHO.
Deflection has as much to do with how far your bridge hand is from the cue ball as the shaft itself.
Call me if you want to discuss this in detail.

On what do you base shaft deflection being affected by shaft stiffness?
I've build extremely stiff shafts that had almost zero deflection.
A stiff shaft is typically thicker (and HEAVIER), which may give the false impression that the stiffness is a factor.....

 

[RocketQ]

All I am saying is there is more than one reason for cb squirt not only mass.

Sheldon give me a call when you get a chance.
My number is on my site.

John

 

[Tommy-D]

> I can't tell you from experience,but it's a not unheard of or unexplored phenomena either. Back as far as the 70's,Buddy Hall was marking something related to this on his shafts. Now,I have no idea which direction he turned the shaft in relation to the stiff side/soft side,maybe in the middle,etc,but he was indeed marking it so that side was always in the same position in his hand. Meucci sold a lot of cues based on hype surrounding this facet of cuemaking and playing. I can't really tell myself,because of the cheap materials they used,maybe it's effects would be more pronounced with high quality parts. I've completely ignored this subject with my Schon.

I plan on making a more detailed assessment once I get to making my own cues. Tommy D.

 

[brianna187]

over the years i have heard of players marking a shaft for repeatabilty
it makes sence

 

[Sheldon]

Meucci sold a lot of cues based on hype surrounding this facet of cuemaking and playing. I can't really tell myself,because of the cheap materials they used,maybe it's effects would be more pronounced with high quality parts. I've completely ignored this subject with my Schon.
I plan on making a more detailed assessment once I get to making my own cues.

I looked at a lot of the "red dot" and whatever dot cues, and could find absolutely no consistency to where the dots were in relation to the spine of the shafts. It appeared to me that they just got a dot randomly.

 

[Sheldon]

All I am saying is there is more than one reason for cb squirt not only mass.
Sheldon give me a call when you get a chance.
My number is on my site.

I agree, but I also believe that endass is the overwhelming factor. The rest is relatively trivial.
I'll call tomorrow, it's the wee hours now where you're at.

 

[manwon]

over the years i have heard of players marking a shaft for repeatabilty
it makes sence

This is certainly a fact, I personally am not one of those chasing the Holy Grail of non-deflection, so I do not use a laminated shaft and I never will. Now, I am not saying that they don't work or even that people should not buy them, but for me they are a waste of money.

Getting back to the thread, I do allot of repairs and refinish work on old cues. When I first started I use to wonder why many of the older cues would have a pencil, pen, or other mark near the shaft collar. Then I realized that people were marking their shafts where they felt that they were getting the best consistent action from that shaft.

In my opinion any shaft can react in a consistent manner if the owner has a good stroke and consistently uses the shaft in the same position every time. If a player does this again only in my opinion no matter how much deflection or lack of deflection a shaft has they can achieve a very consistent hit and play using English or center ball.

One thing is for certain, a cue and it's shaft are only tools which really have little effect on how some one plays. This in a nutshell is why I do believe in the myth that many profess to be a fact, playing good pool is all based upon personal ability not on the latest tool that has hit the market.

So yes, marking a shaft and using it in the same position everytime will give a player the same effect which can be good or bad based upon their individual ability, not whether there is deflection or not.

JIMO

 

[SK Custom Cues]

orientation affect cue tip deflection?

I see some players spin the cue(to a different 'stopped' position) before hitting side spin shots. Is this to orient the shaft grain to promote/inhibit flex at the end of the shaft to help control cb squirt?

I'm trying to tame the 'firm-inside english' monster. It just won't listen.

Just a thought/question?

Thanks

3railkick

It also promotes looseness of grip. I personally think some players do it as a nervous twitch, and others do it cause they're trying to find the right grip. Kinda like what Sergio does.

 

[3RAILKICK]

Oh no! not SERGIO GARCIA!

:wink:

It also promotes looseness of grip. I personally think some players do it as a nervous twitch, and others do it cause they're trying to find the right grip. Kinda like what Sergio does.

That would be rough. Could you play somebody with that kind of pre-shot routine carried over to the pool table? He would get up off the shot and reset about-what-15 times? That's painful to just think about it. I think I would break down my stick rather than risk any lifelong mental scarring.


THANKS to all

3railkick

ps: Man I'm glad he got that regripping thing worked out. Painful to watch. It had to be hell to live it.