Does the type of joint really affect the value of a cue that much?

[vintagecollectibles831]

This guy told me awhile back that if a cue is not wood to wood, like 3/8x10, or Radial, to name a few example, then it will be hard to sell.

This statement kind of made me laugh, for obvious reasons, because many famous cue makers are known to use an SS joint with 5/16x14 piloted, for example, cues.. Cue makers like Tim Scruggs, and Richard Black, just to name a few examples..

But, what if you seen a cue from one of those cue makers, with a Uni Loc joint for example. Do you think that woukd hurt the value of the cue all that much?

Or, a Paul Drexler with a Uni Loc joint, if that might be very unusual, for his cues?

Would the joint type alone effect your decision, and be a deal breaker, of wanting the cue?

I know, some of these famous cue makers probably never used a Uni Loc joint on one of thrur cues, in their entire cue making career, but maybe if a customer asked for it, then they may have. Probably not a popular joint though, for customs.

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

 

[Thecoats]

Technically I know that if the cue screws together tightly the joint shouldn't matter, but I will only buy cues with 3/8-10, 3/8-11, and 5/16-14 piloted joints. I just have not cared for how cues played that have Radial, Uniloc, and 5/16-18 flat face joints.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

Technically I know that if the cue screws together tightly the joint shouldn't matter, but I will only buy cues with 3/8-10, 3/8-11, and 5/16-14 piloted joints. I just have not cared for how cues played that have Radial, Uniloc, and 5/16-18 flat face joints.

What about from a Collectors stand point? Would the type of joint matter? I guess that woukd also be a yes answer.

Thanks..

 

[iusedtoberich]

SS joints are as dead as dinosaurs. I agree, they won't sell today, unless to an old school collector.

 

[sciarco]

I like Radial nice and tight.

 

[Sheldon]

Metal joints are becoming more rare. Haven't had anyone ask for one in ages.

 

[Chopdoc]

SS joints are as dead as dinosaurs. I agree, they won't sell today, unless to an old school collector.

Old school collector?

Well, I guess 3 or 4 CF and polymer plastic fantastic cues constitute a collection to some.

Kidding.

But the best of the best are still the "old school" as far as collections go. I don't even think it's close.

Are there any substantial collections that are not "old school"?

Everything had changed as far as what people in general consider players.

It's all good.

As far as the OPs post? If you are flipping cues, you have to follow the market.

Me? I traded the only Predator I ever had for a C series McDermott and don't regret it. I'm still surprised people call anything with the Predator name on it "vintage". I guess I am getting old.

 

[garczar]

Technically I know that if the cue screws together tightly the joint shouldn't matter, but I will only buy cues with 3/8-10, 3/8-11, and 5/16-14 piloted joints. I just have not cared for how cues played that have Radial, Uniloc, and 5/16-18 flat face joints.

the joint has no effect on how a cue hits/plays. This has been covered a lot on here. Blind tests have shown it to be true. There ARE factors that effect/change how a cue hits but joint type isn't one of them.

 

[Chopdoc]

the joint has no effect on how a cue hits/plays. This has been covered a lot on here. Blind tests have shown it to be true. There ARE factors that effect/change how a cue hits but joint type isn't one of them.

Well, the blind test showed players can't reliably tell the difference in how it feels, they can't reliably identify joint type by how it feels (hits), not that it makes no difference at all. But indeed, it makes no practical difference, it's physics. As long as the shaft is firmly screwed to the butt, that's all it takes. I guess if you made a joint out of a length of silicone it would make a difference but that's getting ridiculous.

Subjective feelings, human behavior, aesthetics, etc. is a whole other can of worms.

That reminds me, remember these?

 

[Bob Jewett]

.... That reminds me, remember these?

(LimbSaver vibration damping add-on)

For those that missed that the first time, the LimbSaver damped the sound/vibration of the cue stick. All of its action happened after the cue ball had left the tip, so it had no real effect on how the stick played (and maybe no effect on your limbs), but it did change the perceived "hit" of the cue stick, making it seem more "solid" or "dead", depending on the player.

I had the opposite problem for a while. My cue developed a sharp click. It bothered me a lot, like breaking glass every time I hit the ball, and it was really hard to play with. I couldn't find anything loose. It turned out to be the screw that held the bumper on. It had loosened up a little, and it was slapping the washer. It had no effect on the shot, but it had a huge effect on my game.

 

[fastone371]

For those that missed that the first time, the LimbSaver damped the sound/vibration of the cue stick. All of its action happened after the cue ball had left the tip, so it had no real effect on how the stick played (and maybe no effect on your limbs), but it did change the perceived "hit" of the cue stick, making it seem more "solid" or "dead", depending on the player.

I had the opposite problem for a while. My cue developed a sharp click. It bothered me a lot, like breaking glass every time I hit the ball, and it was really hard to play with. I couldn't find anything loose. It turned out to be the screw that held the bumper on. It had loosened up a little, and it was slapping the washer. It had no effect on the shot, but it had a huge effect on my game.

All you need to do to find the effect that bumpers have on the sound/feel of a cue is remove your rubber bumper and hit a few balls. It completely changes the sound of your cue.

 

[jimmyco]

This guy told me awhile back that if a cue is not wood to wood, like 3/8x10, or Radial, to name a few example, then it will be hard to sell.

This statement kind of made me laugh, for obvious reasons, because many famous cue makers are known to use an SS joint with 5/16x14 piloted, for example, cues.. Cue makers like Tim Scruggs, and Richard Black, just to name a few examples..

But, what if you seen a cue from one of those cue makers, with a Uni Loc joint for example. Do you think that woukd hurt the value of the cue all that much?

Or, a Paul Drexler with a Uni Loc joint, if that might be very unusual, for his cues?

Would the joint type alone effect your decision, and be a deal breaker, of wanting the cue?

I know, some of these famous cue makers probably never used a Uni Loc joint on one of thrur cues, in their entire cue making career, but maybe if a customer asked for it, then they may have. Probably not a popular joint though, for customs.

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

I believe two identical Tasc cues, with the exception of the joint, will absolutely effect the collector value.
One stainless steel, the other ivory over s.s.

 

[Chopdoc]

For those that missed that the first time, the LimbSaver damped the sound/vibration of the cue stick. All of its action happened after the cue ball had left the tip, so it had no real effect on how the stick played (and maybe no effect on your limbs), but it did change the perceived "hit" of the cue stick, making it seem more "solid" or "dead", depending on the player.

I had the opposite problem for a while. My cue developed a sharp click. It bothered me a lot, like breaking glass every time I hit the ball, and it was really hard to play with. I couldn't find anything loose. It turned out to be the screw that held the bumper on. It had loosened up a little, and it was slapping the washer. It had no effect on the shot, but it had a huge effect on my game.

You can detect some of the same kind of changes by just removing a bumper. This would be more dramatic on a cue with a big bumper like McDermott A, B, C, and D series. Those are large and even have a rubber tenon that inserts into the butt cap. By contrast the early Meucci cues had a little "pill" bumper and less effect.

If I remember correctly rubber bumpers were originally advertised as sound dampers in old Brunswick catalogs, so the notion predates the Limbsaver by a number of decades.

I can relate to your story, an inappropriate sound or feeling can be distracting. It can drive you nuts.

You might swear it's the ferrule when it's the bumper, screw, or butt cap. Kind of like on a car or motorcycle when you swear the problem is the front end and it turns out to be the rear.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I can relate to your story, an inappropriate sound or feeling can be distracting. It can drive you nuts.
...

It was more of a short putt, but yeah.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If I remember correctly rubber bumpers were originally advertised as sound dampers in old Brunswick catalogs, ...

That could also have been for the sound of the unbumpered butt on a hardwood floor.

 

[Zerksies]

Certain joints are more favorable then others. With all these LD shafts uncommon/weird joints are not going to sell as well.

My last cue i wanted a 5/16x14 thread because i already had predator shafts that size.

 

[hang-the-9]

What about from a Collectors stand point? Would the type of joint matter? I guess that woukd also be a yes answer.

Thanks..

For me, unless it was changed from stock, no, the joint would not matter to me. In fact, some rare joint in a cue I would appreciate owning more than if it was a more common one. For example, the Scheuler joint design. Even if you can't find aftermarket shafts for the cues, that is not the point of them. If a custom cuemaker decides on a certain joint to use, that is part of their idea and philosophy of what makes a good cue. If I find their ideas to not match mine, I would go after another cue build rather than modify theirs. If I want a cue to play with, and I know the shafts I have fit X joint, I am going to buy cues with the X joint not Y joint. And if I happened across a Y jointed cue from a maker I always wanted to own, I would just modify the shafts to fit them or play with other shafts that have a Y joint.

 

[Chopdoc]

That could also have been for the sound of the unbumpered butt on a hardwood floor.

True. It wasn't said outright in the advertising and we have discussed that here before.

 

[Black-Balled]

For those that missed that the first time, the LimbSaver damped the sound/vibration of the cue stick. All of its action happened after the cue ball had left the tip, so it had no real effect on how the stick played (and maybe no effect on your limbs), but it did change the perceived "hit" of the cue stick, making it seem more "solid" or "dead", depending on the player.

I had the opposite problem for a while. My cue developed a sharp click. It bothered me a lot, like breaking glass every time I hit the ball, and it was really hard to play with. I couldn't find anything loose. It turned out to be the screw that held the bumper on. It had loosened up a little, and it was slapping the washer. It had no effect on the shot, but it had a huge effect on my game.

I used to love the house cues with the noisy bumper hardware.

Voodoo stick!

 

[SSDiver2112]

You can detect some of the same kind of changes by just removing a bumper. This would be more dramatic on a cue with a big bumper like McDermott A, B, C, and D series. Those are large and even have a rubber tenon that inserts into the butt cap. By contrast the early Meucci cues had a little "pill" bumper and less effect.

If I remember correctly rubber bumpers were originally advertised as sound dampers in old Brunswick catalogs, so the notion predates the Limbsaver by a number of decades.

I can relate to your story, an inappropriate sound or feeling can be distracting. It can drive you nuts.

You might swear it's the ferrule when it's the bumper, screw, or butt cap. Kind of like on a car or motorcycle when you swear the problem is the front end and it turns out to be the rear.

Putting the cue butt down while waiting or as it was very common back in the day (and still a little now) to bang the cue on the floor to praise a good shot, the bumper dampened that noise.