Does this mean less Sponsorship for pool in the USA ?

[geno]

YES it unequivocally does. (read PR below)

I say this because this is the 3rd company I have heard this line of thought from. ( I will not name the others as they have not publicly announced it yet and I doubt they will as it would not be smart for them to do so in the US market.) The last US Cue company I spoke with said that they were not going to sponsor anymore US pool events as they were focusing there promotional efforts in China.

The PR below does not specifically say Predator is going to do this but you can bet your AZZ that less sponsorship towards the US market is what is in the works as they increase there presence in other markets. Just as it is so with a few other companies.

I am happy that these companies can expand in the world market but it saddens me that it will be at the cost of the US pool player. Who know, hopefully they will make hand-over-fist in monies and then come back and try to get the game going here in the US again. I wish them all the best of luck.

News Release | Predator to Open Asian Office

Predator to Open Asian Office

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (May 31, 2011) – Clawson Custom Cues, d/b/a Predator Group, announced that it will open a satellite office in Hong Kong by the end of this year. All corporate functions, including research and development, as well as the company’s headquarters, will remain in Jacksonville, FL.

Predator Group is making this move for several reasons. According to Karim Belhaj, Chief Executive Officer, “we have successfully marketed our products all over the world but, more recently, we have experienced enormous growth in China and other Asian markets. Not only are these markets expanding but interest in billiards is on the rise as well. We want to capitalize on the many opportunities offered by this vibrant region and believe establishing a presence in the region represents a good first step.”

Since 2009, the company has been working to diversify its manufacturing base with the threefold goals of accelerating product development, ensuring a steady and more timely flow of product to its customers and increasing the value offered to players who choose Predator and Poison products. A greater presence in Asia will allow Predator Group to work more closely with both customers and suppliers in the region, and thus enhance critical business relationships. Outside of the U.S., the company currently sources materials, products and accessories from Canada, China, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Malaysia and Taiwan.

Predator has also seen an increase in the amount of fake Predator and Poison products in the global marketplace. “We’ve worked hard to build our brands around the world and therefore become a target for counterfeiters, most of whom set up shop in Asia,” said Belhaj. “We may not solve the problem on our own but having our people on the ground in the region will give us greater knowledge and help us better protect our intellectual property.”

John Forrester, Chairman of Predator Group, stated “the company has reached a tipping point and it is time to formally open for business in Asia.” He continued, “this is a strategic move for the company and, to ensure its success, our board of directors has asked Karim Belhaj to spend the next few months in Asia surveying the competitive landscape, securing facilities and recruiting the necessary personnel. He will maintain his Jacksonville residence.”

 

[broken]

lol @ this

YES it unequivocally does. (read PR below)


Predator has also seen an increase in the amount of fake Predator and Poison products in the global marketplace. “We’ve worked hard to build our brands around the world and therefore become a target for counterfeiters, most of whom set up shop in Asia,” said Belhaj. “We may not solve the problem on our own but having our people on the ground in the region will give us greater knowledge and help us better protect our intellectual property.”

[/COLOR][/B]

Moving to Asia will not abate their counterfeit problem one bit. If anything, it will get worse. Haha @ enforcing patent/copyright in a developing nation.

 

[JB Cases]

China is SO DEEP. Good luck is all I can say. Companies like 3M have a hard time protecting their IP here in China so it's going to be a long hard road for Predator or any other company.

Popularity breeds copying. That's the way the world works and the way it's always worked.

As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

Predator did a very good job sponsoring events and getting their name out there in Asia and the Asians responded by gobbling up Predator branded goods. Only problem is that no one knows how much of those goods were really made by Predator or not.

Same for Brunswick. They sponsored events here with the Brunswick LOGO prominently displayed everywhere. Then they got knocked off severely. Now in a lot of poolrooms here you will see one or two "real" Brunswick tables and the rest will all be knockoffs.

Or you will see in some pool rooms plenty of used Gold Crown 3s that came from Taiwan. I was told by a Taiwanese billiard industry veteran that most of those are probably fakes that were made in Taiwan.

Where I think Predator can do well with a Hong Kong office (although Hong Kong is not China) is that they can establish a bit tighter control over their distribution in Asia by being able to forge relationships with the bigger distributors. There are big sellers of cues here that they probably don't even know the names of.

Should be interesting to see how it plays out for them.

 

[gerard soriano]

My ? Should I buy more while they are made here or should I sell the ones I have?

 

[JB Cases]

My ? Should I buy more while they are made here or should I sell the ones I have?

More of what and made where?

Predator stuff has never been made entirely in the USA. Now most of the Predator products with the exception of the butts done by various US companies such as Pechauer and Jacoby are made in China as far as I know.

If you have a Predator thing and you are happy with it then keep it. Buy from reputable dealers whom you trust to be selling genuine items that were approved by Predator.

Made in China isn't the problem. This computer I am typing on was made in China as was my Ipod and Ipad. The problem is that when someone knocks off a design or a brand then they don't have to stand behind it. They have no investment in the relationship between the customer and the brand.

They only PREY on the connection that has been established between the consumer and the brand, the trust.

In my mind the whole idea of brands, trademarks, patents and the like needs to be overhauled. People who own brands will NEVER EVER EVER be able to stop counterfeiters. Because the counterfeiters have the advantage, they sit back and wait for the products to come out and the advertising to be done. Then they can pick and choose what they want to counterfeit, to what degree they want to counterfeit it and how they want to sell it. Even if you shut down one outlet then they just move to another one. Even if you get to the root factory and manage to shut it down then another one pops up down the road like mushrooms.

The lower the tech the more prevalent the copies. Lower barrier to entry and all that.

I don't know the answer. I am for copying as a means to move humanity forward. I am against theft as a means to earn a living.

 

[sjm]

It's not clear that this is a problem. If the growth prospects for cue sales are in Asia, then there are likely similarly strong growth prospects for tournaments and prize money in Asia. A more vibrant pro scene in Asia would be good news for top players all over the world. Perhaps Chinese sales will make possible the emergence of a pro tour so lucrative that players around the world will be able to cost justify their frequent participation.

The prospects for pro pool needs to be considered globally, not just nationally.

 

[PoolGrapevine]

We really need to see the US companies make a comeback. Asia is killin us in everything.
Buy American! (when u can lol)

 

[geno]

So do you think this means less Sponsorship for pool in the USA in the near future especially if more and more companies go this route?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

If in fact Predator invests in Asian sponsorship, that doesn't necessarily mean that they will blatantly pull sponsorship from the USA. They don't want to cut their own throats do they?

 

[JB Cases]

So do you think this means less Sponsorship for pool in the USA in the near future especially if more and more companies go this route?

Not if it's about protecting IP. That has nothing to do with sponsorship. Sponsorship is all about ROI and the ROI hasn't really been there in the USA for the past decade.

It's really not there anywhere on the globe as far as that goes with just a few exceptions.

I'd be surprised if any billiard company could really point to their sponsorship and make a case that this has helped their sales significantly.

The old saw goes that 50% of my marketing budget is completely wasted but I don't know which half.

I doubt highly that many US billiard companies are looking towards Asia as a place to expand with the intent of spending money on sponsoring events here to spur sales.

Of course I could be wrong. I frequently am.

 

[JB Cases]

Another thing to consider is that there isn't a lot of room left for outside sponsors here. The big Asian companies are looking to make their brands popular and they can spend more than the American billiard companies can. Although I am sure that any events here would certainly welcome the American companies to be in the bidding so that the Asians will feel compelled to spend more to get their name in lights. Saving face counts for a LOT here.

 

[geno]

If in fact Predator invests in Asian sponsorship, that doesn't necessarily mean that they will blatantly pull sponsorship from the USA. They don't want to cut their own throats do they?

No it dosnt mean they will but the initial investment has to come from somewhere and a possible logical means to do this without creating additional debt would be to cut other programs like us sponsorship to pay for the overseas advertising/sponsorship investment.

Additionally I cam to this conclusion because I was specifically told by more than one us company that this is exactly how and why they are affording to move there sales efforts to the Chinese markets. So in fact it is already happening. Whether predator chooses to do this or not it is already being done and yes it is already affecting sponsorship/advertising programs here in the USA.

 

[JB Cases]

No it dosnt mean they will but the initial investment has to come from somewhere and a possible logical means to do this without creating additional debt would be to cut other programs like us sponsorship to pay for the overseas advertising/sponsorship investment.

Additionally I cam to this conclusion because I was specifically told by more than one us company that this is exactly how and why they are affording to move there sales efforts to the Chinese markets. So in fact it is already happening. Whether predator chooses to do this or not it is already being done and yes it is already affecting sponsorship/advertising programs here in the USA.

If you already knew the answer then why did you ask the question?

 

[Kid Dynomite]

This could be a GOOD thing! Pool has BIG support in ASIA! Just leverage that support and get some big PAYOUT tournaments in ASIA. The players don't care where they have to GO to get a good pay check. Efren and the other international players travel HERE. Our pro's should not be so STUCK UP that they cant travel oversees for the GOOD of the sport.

It sucks for USA fans unable to attend. But, with web streaming advances that problem has been eliminated pretty much. Only problem I see is the USA sponsors need to start sending GOOD players overseas.

The players want expense money and entry fee. Not much in my opinion! They keep what they make and have an incentive to do well. But, the us companies have poor distribution networks oversees and see little benefit from asian exposure when they have no inventory or distribution networks set up. So, they need to build this NETWORK and inventory up and go from there

KD

 

[Black-Balled]

If you already knew the answer then why did you ask the question?

I would think an international corporation has been established and the $, it's initial investment from the US notwithstanding, will likely stay mainly where it comes into (US or China).

Furthering my uneducated theory: the possibility of $ flowing back to US is very likely (expected), but not from US to overseas.

 

[hunger strike]

Your posts are an education... maybe I should read all

Not if it's about protecting IP. That has nothing to do with sponsorship. Sponsorship is all about ROI and the ROI hasn't really been there in the USA for the past decade.

It's really not there anywhere on the globe as far as that goes with just a few exceptions.

I'd be surprised if any billiard company could really point to their sponsorship and make a case that this has helped their sales significantly.

The old saw goes that 50% of my marketing budget is completely wasted but I don't know which half.

I doubt highly that many US billiard companies are looking towards Asia as a place to expand with the intent of spending money on sponsoring events here to spur sales.

Of course I could be wrong. I frequently am.

Thanks for your great posts. You don't seem like you'd be wrong very often. You seem like you know business very well.
I have an idea that may be stooopid, but why doesn't Predator or one of the larger companies tinker with the idea of having a major tournament where the sponsors equipment, such as a Predator shaft, is required for play? I am frequently wrong as well, but I like to throw around ideas and I feel that I shouldn't be afraid to do so just out of fear of being wrong or getting criticized. I think that in this economic climate, it would be harder to criticize a company for requiring players to use their equipment. It's the players' choice to play or not..... critique away, I can take it. What do you think?

 

[Black-Balled]

...I have an idea ... why doesn't Predator or one of the larger companies tinker with the idea of having a major tournament where the sponsors equipment, ...is required for play?

I think there has to be respect given to other sponsors: you wouldn't like it if someone left you out of the game, just like sponsored players wouldn't like having to potentially ignore their sponsor-obligations to play said event.

But for an event that would be intended to be a hands-on/ demo type event (not a pro-level or championship of any type)...A+ on the idear!

 

[CrisDeLaGarza]

Wow...I love how everything on this forum gets turned into a consiracy theory. Predator has been sponsoring events in Asia for a long time so I doubt this will change that. And if you look at their player roster, there are very few that only play events in the U.S., most compete in all of the international tournaments, including in Asia. So their sponsorship of players has been reaching that market already. Karim is in Asia all the time visiting events that they are sponsoring, well before the announcement of this office opening.

 

[JB Cases]

Thanks for your great posts. You don't seem like you'd be wrong very often. You seem like you know business very well.
I have an idea that may be stooopid, but why doesn't Predator or one of the larger companies tinker with the idea of having a major tournament where the sponsors equipment, such as a Predator shaft, is required for play? I am frequently wrong as well, but I like to throw around ideas and I feel that I shouldn't be afraid to do so just out of fear of being wrong or getting criticized. I think that in this economic climate, it would be harder to criticize a company for requiring players to use their equipment. It's the players' choice to play or not..... critique away, I can take it. What do you think?

Actually that is a good idea. I have had the same one a few times and posted it to this board.

The negative issues I see coming from it would be players who didn't win complaining that they were handicapped because of the equipment.

Also the company could be criticized for being heavy handed by requiring the players to use their equipment in order to get paid. IN fact they would be criticized for it.

However my thoughts on this are that companies should do this and make it fun. It doesn't even have to be professional level events. You could show up at a pool room with a couple thousand dollars in cash or prizes and have an all Fury cue tournament where the players get to pick from 50 or so Fury cues to shoot with, no entry fee. If they don't like the model they are using then they can go back to the rack and pick another until they find one that fits them.

This type of event would certainly be much more positive than negative. I am a HUGE fan of spending marketing money on grass-roots things like this rather than spending it on banners at tournaments and advertising in magazines.

I feel that a tournament with 64 or 128 players all playing with Fury cues and having a good time will pay much bigger dividends than a year's worth of magazine ads.

So, good idea!

 

[mnorwood]

Actually that is a good idea. I have had the same one a few times and posted it to this board.

The negative issues I see coming from it would be players who didn't win complaining that they were handicapped because of the equipment.

Also the company could be criticized for being heavy handed by requiring the players to use their equipment in order to get paid. IN fact they would be criticized for it.

However my thoughts on this are that companies should do this and make it fun. It doesn't even have to be professional level events. You could show up at a pool room with a couple thousand dollars in cash or prizes and have an all Fury cue tournament where the players get to pick from 50 or so Fury cues to shoot with, no entry fee. If they don't like the model they are using then they can go back to the rack and pick another until they find one that fits them.

This type of event would certainly be much more positive than negative. I am a HUGE fan of spending marketing money on grass-roots things like this rather than spending it on banners at tournaments and advertising in magazines.

I feel that a tournament with 64 or 128 players all playing with Fury cues and having a good time will pay much bigger dividends than a year's worth of magazine ads.

So, good idea!

You make a really strong point about grassroots efforts. Over the last two years several hundred kids have come through my pool program in Pasadena ISD. The industry stepped up and made my program happen and I believe in time the investment will pay off in big way.

I also do some youtube instructional videos and people ask me to make cue recommendations all the time.... Your welcome Mcdermott. I have had some industry leaders support the videos with donations, but nothing really substantial. I believe someone one day will see the value in what I do with the videos and help me develop them further.