Don't Look At a Gold Crown!

[StatMan]

I've been trying to decide on which Brunswick model to buy (Metro or Centurion). Today I took a trip to the nearest Brunswick dealer to ask some questions and look at a Metro they had on the showroom floor. Unfortunately for me they also had a GC IV on the floor. I say unfortunately because the Metro looks like a toy compared to the GC IV, now the only table I want is a GC, and the GC IV has a retail of $8,499.

Oh well, now I know why everyone is always talking about the Gold Crowns.

By the way, anyone ever seen an AMF Grand Prix. Supposedly it looks a lot like a Gold Crown, but it can be purchased for about $2,500 less.

 

[Williebetmore]

I've been trying to decide on which Brunswick model to buy (Metro or Centurion). Today I took a trip to the nearest Brunswick dealer to ask some questions and look at a Metro they had on the showroom floor. Unfortunately for me they also had a GC IV on the floor. I say unfortunately because the Metro looks like a toy compared to the GC IV, now the only table I want is a GC, and the GC IV has a retail of $8,499.

Oh well, now I know why everyone is always talking about the Gold Crowns.

By the way, anyone ever seen an AMF Grand Prix. Supposedly it looks a lot like a Gold Crown, but it can be purchased for about $2,500 less.

StatMan,
The mark-ups on the GCIV are HUMONGOUS!!!!!!!!!!! You need to bargain (though they often have a local monopoly, so good luck). I think $4,000 or $5,000 would be fair (I know the wholesale price, but if I told you I'd have to kill you).

 

[StatMan]

StatMan,
The mark-ups on the GCIV are HUMONGOUS!!!!!!!!!!! You need to bargain (though they often have a local monopoly, so good luck). I think $4,000 or $5,000 would be fair (I know the wholesale price, but if I told you I'd have to kill you).

I'm willing to die for a good cause, so tell me!

 

[Teacherman]

I've got a GC III you can buy for $1700. By the time you got it, recovered it you'd have close to $2200 in it.

Been used in a pool room but in good shape. Has the ball return.

Yes, it's used, but the play of the table will be no different than a brand new one, less the new features which are way overpriced.

And, if you buy a new one, it's considered used the minute it's installed. So, if you go to sell it you'll take a huge hit.

Why not buy a good used one to start with, especially if playability is your main concern?

P.S. Looks just like the one in my avatar.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Agreed, buy a used one. Gold Crowns last forever!

A friend of mine recently bought a GC III and had Ernesto Dominguez recover it. While Ernesto was covering it they got to talking about the quality, construction, how long it would last, etc.

During the conversation, Ernesto mentioned that the pool tables at Hollywood Billiards are Gold Crown Is! Those things are twice as old as I am, and unless you can spot the visual differences among the Is, IIs, IIIs and IVs you'd think they were brand new. So don't worry about getting a brand new table, because when taken care of I guarantee they'll last longer than you ever will.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I've got a GC III you can buy for $1700. By the time you got it, recovered it you'd have close to $2200 in it.

Been used in a pool room but in good shape. Has the ball return.

Yes, it's used, but the play of the table will be no different than a brand new one, less the new features which are way overpriced.

And, if you buy a new one, it's considered used the minute it's installed. So, if you go to sell it you'll take a huge hit.

Why not buy a good used one to start with, especially if playability is your main concern?

P.S. Looks just like the one in my avatar.

Yes, I agree with this opinion in full. If you want to buy a bargain, check out the used-table market. There are some real steals. If your concern is appearance, you can often get an antique for next to nothing (literally). People are always giving them away to make space in their basements. If you're looking for a poolroom-type table, you can always buy from a room that's closing. Considering how the market has been recently, I'm certain there are thousands out there.

 

[ScottR]

Yes, I agree with this opinion in full. If you want to buy a bargain, check out the used-table market. There are some real steals. If your concern is appearance, you can often get an antique for next to nothing (literally). People are always giving them away to make space in their basements. If you're looking for a poolroom-type table, you can always buy from a room that's closing. Considering how the market has been recently, I'm certain there are thousands out there.

Jude, Didn't you or someone else say in another thread that the GC III's are more consistently better quality than the IV's? If so, that's another reason to buy a used III. Scott

 

[woody_968]

Used is the way to go,,, and as far as the AMF,,, I have one but Im not sure what the model is. FWIW I am happy with my AMF, but one day will have a Diamond

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, Didn't you or someone else say in another thread that the GC III's are more consistently better quality than the IV's? If so, that's another reason to buy a used III. Scott

Yes, that was me. To reiterate my point, the GC IV is still an excellent playing table. However, it just seems that more problems are arising with the model IV than with III's.

If I had the opportunity to pick any table in the world for my basement, I would surely pick a Brunswick Black Gold Crown III. Easily, that was their best commercial table.

 

[ScottR]

Yes, that was me. To reiterate my point, the GC IV is still an excellent playing table. However, it just seems that more problems are arising with the model IV than with III's.

If I had the opportunity to pick any table in the world for my basement, I would surely pick a Brunswick Black Gold Crown III. Easily, that was their best commercial table.

The blacks are different/better than the woodgrain look, or you like the black look better? Thanks. Scott

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The blacks are different/better than the woodgrain look, or you like the black look better? Thanks. Scott

Although I don't know this for certain, my understanding is that the Black Gold Crowns were better made and more expensive. Among the players in my area, Black Gold Crowns were always treated as something special and it had nothing to do with color.

 

[Muxy]

Is Canadian Billiard and Bowling Black Crown

not Brunswick Black Crown,................................

or is this a different table all together.

 

[billlaur]

I've been trying to decide on which Brunswick model to buy (Metro or Centurion). Today I took a trip to the nearest Brunswick dealer to ask some questions and look at a Metro they had on the showroom floor. Unfortunately for me they also had a GC IV on the floor. I say unfortunately because the Metro looks like a toy compared to the GC IV, now the only table I want is a GC, and the GC IV has a retail of $8,499.

Oh well, now I know why everyone is always talking about the Gold Crowns.

By the way, anyone ever seen an AMF Grand Prix. Supposedly it looks a lot like a Gold Crown, but it can be purchased for about $2,500 less.

a uSED GC IS THE WAY TO GO.kEEP AN EYE IN THE PAPER THEY WILL POP UP..yOU CAN GET A GOOD ONE BETWEEN 2500-3500...jUST KEEP LOOKING.

 

[kokopuffs]

Scan the want ads for moving sales because the owner(s) may offer a GC for sale at a really cheap price. And while deciding to abandon the table just before they move out, you make them a much lower offer!

 

[JoeyInCali]

I'm sorry but the GC III's almost ruined Brunswick's reputation . The III's are famoust for not being close to GC I or II's quality . The slates are not doweled and pinned like GC I and II's.
The III's were not 100% made in US, unlike the I and II. The I and II had the Chicago-made Monarch-cushions ( Tablemechanic and PTM, correct me if I'm wrong on this one). while the III were fitted with Asian-made Superspeed. Superspeed cushions became hard within months while the Monarch stayed true for decades. The new IV's cushions are way way too fast.
The Metro table is not even really made by Brunswick. It started as Dufferin.
Good deals on GC I and II and even the Centennial or Anniversary tables come around once in a while ( I got my II for $975 and I found a used 8-foot Centennial for $750 for a friend ).
I'd go with a Diamond table before a GV IV.
If I had 8K or so, I'd go with the Gabriel or dymondwood topped Diamond table.
For $3K, I'd find a nice used GC I or II and have a good mechanic fix it up.

 

[JimS]

I'm sorry but the GC III's almost ruined Brunswick's reputation . The III's are famoust for not being close to GC I or II's quality . The slates are not doweled and pinned like GC I and II's.
The III's were not 100% made in US, unlike the I and II. The I and II had the Chicago-made Monarch-cushions ( Tablemechanic and PTM, correct me if I'm wrong on this one). while the III were fitted with Asian-made Superspeed. Superspeed cushions became hard within months while the Monarch stayed true for decades. The new IV's cushions are way way too fast.
The Metro table is not even really made by Brunswick. It started as Dufferin.
Good deals on GC I and II and even the Centennial or Anniversary tables come around once in a while ( I got my II for $975 and I found a used 8-foot Centennial for $750 for a friend ).
I'd go with a Diamond table before a GV IV.
If I had 8K or so, I'd go with the Gabriel or dymondwood topped Diamond table.
For $3K, I'd find a nice used GC I or II and have a good mechanic fix it up.

This post reflects what has been said by many experienced posters on the ccb for several years. GC 1's and 2's being the best of the GC's while the 3's were the worst. I"ve played on the 4's and I don't like the bouncy cushions at all. I have a Diamond Pro and will never regret spending the $$ that I couldn't afford at the time. Once I got it paid off the pain was over and now I have a table that is unbeatable and will never need to be replaced.

If I had to do it over I would buy the Diamond but would consider spending quite a bit less on a used Brunswick Anniversary or GC 1 or 2.

 

[max06]

GC I & II's vs. GC III & IV's

I'd have to agree that the GC 1's and 2's play better than the 3's and 4's.
GCI's can be identified by the plactic nameplate on the headrail,(usually having a few cigarette burns), metal plates under the rails that accept the rail bolts and pinned slates. The 2's have a metal nameplate, and a floating
nut inside the rail to accept the bolt.
Adjustable feet were an option and should not be a factor in identifying a GC
I or 2. I asked an excellent table mechanic once what he thought was better and he agreed that the ones and twos were on top of the list.
Finding one on the secondary market or after a big tournament is the way to go. Manufacturers would rather sell a tournament table cheap then break it down and haul it back.
Got my friend a 4 day old GCIV at the super billiards expo last year for 4K
cash and carry. His best deal prior to that was $6350 del & set up.
Of course when you are looking for one thats when they will be a little harder to find.
Getting a good mechanic is crucial to any table playing like it should.
I would try to get the same type table that is in your local pool room.
Unless it's a Playcraft or some other cheapo table.
Good Luck in the hunt.

Rich

 

[StatMan]

JoeyInCali, I looked into a Gabriels. Here's the email I got from them:

Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry.
The Signature Pro 9 foot, including steel frame, 30 mm slates, Dianite
finished rails, Simonis 860 cloth and maritime grade packing is 4,750 US
dollar ex -works, Holland. Quantity discounts are available depending on
the number of tables you will be purchasing.

With Best regards,
Thierry Gabriels
Loontjens biljarts

 

[JAM]

I heard that some players don't like the glare or shine from the silver hardware on the GC IV's, but it's a personal preference I guess.

I've got an older-model Brunswick Century [not Centurion] in my basement, as it was called 20 years ago. I think back then I paid about $2,000 for it, plus set-up fee. My daughter recently moved back home and is now living in the basement.

I'm getting ready to sell my 9-foot table to provide more living space for her, plus the fact that I never use it anymore. Selling a pool table is difficult because of the enormous cost of tearing it down, moving it, and setting it up again.

The players I know like playing on Diamonds AND Brunswick GC's. Each one plays a little differently, but they're quite popular and seem to be the table of choice at major venues.

Here's a pic of my Brunswick Century.

JAM

 

[JoeyInCali]

JoeyInCali, I looked into a Gabriels. Here's the email I got from them:

Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry.
The Signature Pro 9 foot, including steel frame, 30 mm slates, Dianite
finished rails, Simonis 860 cloth and maritime grade packing is 4,750 US
dollar ex -works, Holland. Quantity discounts are available depending on
the number of tables you will be purchasing.

With Best regards,
Thierry Gabriels
Loontjens biljarts

I'd ask how much shipping would be.
That table is just awesome. Jeesh, they even have one now where you can easily convert it to a billiard table.
A friend of mine owns a Gabriel billiard table. It's da nuts.