Double Kiss Question

[Tennesseejoe]

In One Pocket, and other games as well, high English is needed for some cross-over banks. I have a good feel for avoiding the double kiss but not a fool proof method.

In this example, I am banking to the lower left corner. do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

 

[ideologist]

I would hit the cueball with inside to beat the kiss. You have to bank it a bit shorter since the object ball will open up some as it rolls across.

 

[jamesjr1963]

In One Pocket, and other games as well, high English is needed for some cross-over banks. I have a good feel for avoiding the double kiss but not a fool proof method.

In this example, I am banking to the lower left corner. do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

Are you hitting the 2-ball full or coming across the front of it? A bank can be shortened with draw, speed, inside English, or a combination of the 3 and you would not have to worry about a double-kiss.

 

[bbb]

No kiss with in side English,,,,,, if the cue ball passes the object ball to the opposite corner pocket with inside English. There is no kiss

 

[bbb]

Your cue ball passes the opposite corner pocket to what you were banking

 

[bbb]

In your example high English I think you might scratch and I doubt you would get a kiss

 

[naji]

In One Pocket, and other games as well, high English is needed for some cross-over banks. I have a good feel for avoiding the double kiss but not a fool proof method.

In this example, I am banking to the lower left corner. do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

I use a loose rule if i cannot shoot the CB straight past the OB to where the bank angle is at the rail, usually there will be a kiss, the other rule that works near a pocket, if you cannot shoot cb past ob to a pocket there will be a kiss. But you can stiff a bank by a diamond on some tables.
Good luck.

 

[Mardayo]

This shot comes into play often. I go with high inside with good results.

 

[John Brumback]

There is no "fool proof method or system" to know when there is a kiss or not. Depends on the table the cball and the type and age of the cloth and how clean or dirty the balls are. Example,with the shot you have here.. on my Diamond,I'm pretty sure I can cross this shot slow rolling with just center cball. With this shot I like to let the weight or mass of the cball help me get the oball to go long enough and still avoid the kiss.I would not be using english to try to get this to go long enough. You would just be asking for a double kiss like that. John B.

 

[macguy]

In One Pocket, and other games as well, high English is needed for some cross-over banks. I have a good feel for avoiding the double kiss but not a fool proof method.

In this example, I am banking to the lower left corner. do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

On some of those double kiss situations you may be shocked how many can be just stiffed in without crossing the object ball.

 

[Island Drive]

Some never go.

 

[Black-Balled]

There is no "fool proof method or system" to know when there is a kiss or not. Depends on the table the cball and the type and age of the cloth and how clean or dirty the balls are. Example,with the shot you have here.. on my Diamond,I'm pretty sure I can cross this shot slow rolling with just center cball. With this shot I like to let the weight or mass of the cball help me get the oball to go long enough and still avoid the kiss.I would not be using english to try to get this to go long enough. You would just be asking for a double kiss like that. John B.

On my gold crown, I can hold that ball, banking it without crossing it. It requires a firm hit and goes short enough-and with enough speed to go 2 railroad, back in front of my opponent's hole, dammit

 

[dr_dave]

... do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

FYI, several good videos on this topic can be found on the bank shot double kiss detection and avoidance resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[Bob Jewett]

In One Pocket, and other games as well, high English is needed for some cross-over banks. I have a good feel for avoiding the double kiss but not a fool proof method.

In this example, I am banking to the lower left corner. do you have a good method to determine if this will double kiss? How about similar banks?

I agree with John B. -- usually there is no precise rule. The problem comes at the "edges" of course where the shot may or may not kiss, depending. In your diagram the object ball looks to be about 3/4 ball off the cushion. Is that correct? Of course the exact distance is very, very important for crossing shots and often important for shots when you hold the ball.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

I agree with John B. -- usually there is no precise rule. The problem comes at the "edges" of course where the shot may or may not kiss, depending. In your diagram the object ball looks to be about 3/4 ball off the cushion. Is that correct? Of course the exact distance is very, very important for crossing shots and often important for shots when you hold the ball.

Yes Bob, that is approximately the distance. If we look at the diagram in the OP and place the object ball closer to the rail so it is 1/4 inch off the rail, I think we would have a double kiss while executing a cross-over bank. What I would like to know is: How do we judge when this is a kiss or a clean bank. While I understand there a myriad of factors, I was hoping for a rule of thumb.

I hope this information gives a clearer picture of my dilemma.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yes Bob, that is approximately the distance. If we look at the diagram in the OP and place the object ball closer to the rail so it is 1/4 inch off the rail, I think we would have a double kiss while executing a cross-over bank. What I would like to know is: How do we judge when this is a kiss or a clean bank. While I understand there a myriad of factors, I was hoping for a rule of thumb. ...

In my BD article of July of 1999 I describe a procedure that you can do for yourself to figure out a rule of thumb. It will take a lot of work to fill in a bunch of cases, but I think all that work will end up in producing a very good feel for the shot. Here's the article -- page 11: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1999.pdf

If the rule of thumb gets you to try a bank that is not possible or to pass up a bank that is possible, then it may be a net negative. There is always going to be a gray area between "surely kisses" and "surely no kiss" and I think the real skill in banking is in expanding the second area with speed and spin.

 

[Lesh]

Thanks for the article!

My Rule of Thumb in the case provided by the original poster would be to have the CB travel in the opposite direction of the object ball - sure its gonna skid off the top rail, but it will still do the work.... using inside English to make the CB come off the end rail to the left and bounce toward the top rail while the object ball travels downward to the intended corner pocket. Inside english banks are a staple shot to practice for 1-hole.

Regards,

Lesh

 

[pt109]

I use a loose rule if i cannot shoot the CB straight past the OB to where the bank angle is at the rail, usually there will be a kiss, the other rule that works near a pocket, if you cannot shoot cb past ob to a pocket there will be a kiss. But you can stiff a bank by a diamond on some tables.
Good luck.

I'm banking this with low left english....draw out of the way with a sharp hit.
The bank with inside is a kiss...the natural cross here hits about 2 or 3 inches
up the long rail.

On these shots, it's time to think bank-pool rather than one-pocket....
...lagging it to your hole doesn't get it here