Double Shim The Gold Crown IV?

[DrCue'sProtege]

ok folks, as most of you may know i live in an apartment above my garage, which is right next to my dear old dad's house. he is 89. and we are about a 5-iron from the nursing home where mother is. she is 86. anyway, the builder of this palace is coming tomorrow, and we are going to talk about possibly expanding this place out by about 12 feet. i need some more room, after 9 years this place is getting a little small.

anyway, if i decide to expand this garage/apartment, i am going to have him add some extra floor joists in case i want to move the Gold Crown IV from the makeshift pool room in the garage back to the upstairs. and if that happens i am contemplating as to whether or not i should have the pockets shimmed or not?

what do you posters recommend here? would you shim the pockets? or perhaps double shim the pockets? do you prefer to have bigger pockets on your home table to build confidence? or do you prefer tighter pockets on your home table, figuring when you go somewhere to play you will play better on bigger pockets?

just asking for your serious thoughts posters. thank you in advance.

DCP

 

[Cue Freak]

I would rather have smaller pockets at home so I know I'll be on when I go somewhere else to shoot. I think would really step up the aiming portion of someone's game.

 

[JohnPT]

shim the pockets but pls. take it easy with the "why did i miss this shot" threads

 

[JDB]

You have to be careful with how tight you make the pockets. I agree with having tight pockets to make your game better; however, you don't want them so tight that you have to play differently on your home table.

I would think that 1 shim would be enough and 2 shims may make them too tight where you need to change your position game.

JMO.

 

[Russ Chewning]

DCP, no offense, but until you learn all the correct position routes, I wouldn't even think about tightening the pockets. You're just going to frustrate yourself. You are going to be forced to shoot extremely difficult position shots into even tighter pockets than you have now.

Besides.. You shouldn't be "shimming" the pockets anyways. If you can afford to have 12 foot added onto your house, you can afford to have a mechanic properly extend the rails to make the table play properly.

Russ

 

[CreeDo]

I vote no, there's no reason to play a strange crippled version of the game when you can be playing the real thing. Make the table as close as possible to what you see guys in big tv tournaments play on (which means not narrower than 4.5 in). By overshimming the pocket you take away some ability to cheat the pocket, which is part of the game.

Also, contrary to what people say, having a smaller target doesn't make you aim better or focus more.. it just makes your shots not go in more. Only you can train yourself to focus on accuracy and watch to see if the ball arrives where you intended (and only you can prevent forest fires).

 

[Scottster]

After reading the majority of your posts, I would not recommend you tightening the pockets on your home table.

 

[poolhustler]

I agree with all of the above. It seems to me that from your posts, that you are a C level player. You absolutely should not shim your pockets until you get to at least a very solid B+ player. You will just get more frustrated and we will have to read more "Why.............shot?" posts!!!!

The one thing I don't agree on is when people say that you shouldn't have to "change" yor game with tight pockets. It all depends on your level of play. An A player doesn't have to change his/her game to play on 4" pockets. Pockets can still be cheated, balls can still be pocketed with a hard hit, etc.... It DOES take more skill and you have to be way more precise.

Lower level C or B player should stick with 4.5" pockets.........

Russ....

 

[JimS]

4.5" pockets are small enough to be challenging and are smaller than most bar or ph pockets. There is really no need for anything smaller.

As I understand it all pockets have one shim or facing on the end of the rubber cushions. If you put two facings on the end of the cushion this changes the way that the cb bounces off the facing and imo you won't like the unnatural way the ball rebounds off the cushion.. You will lose playability. That's what everybody told me but I had to do it in order to discover that they were 100% correct. The ball hit the facing with more of a thud and was not as lively. The double shim/facing deadened the end of the cushion. And if you think about it, it would have to. I didn't like my table after having it shimmed and I sold it and got a new table.

You'll need new cushions cut for smaller pockets.

A players, ALL players, DO have to change their game on extremely tight pockets. Shots have to be played softer and this changes position play. B and C players often don't know how to change their game, or can't make balls using a lot of spin, so it just becomes more frustrating as you miss more often and are less able to play position because you have to hit softer and use more spin to get the cb where you want it.

The small pockets on my table (4.5") DO make me aim more precisely and shoot more carefully (no nonchalantin!) as even a very small aiming error will cause a miss. The shot has to be exactly on the spot in the pocket that you are aiming for. You learn to aim at a precise point/spot in the pocket instead of the pocket in general.

As for those who admonish you to not post threads about missing shots they can just skip those threads. Post what you need to post. Truth is that many of them like those threads so they can feel superior as they belittle those who ask for help.

 

[Koopa]

Shoot softer and play differently on a shimmed table? Unless your normal game consists of horribly cheating the pocket or just missing by a quarter ball often, I don't see why it'd be necessary.

I've played for the past 3 years on triple-shimmed tables and never changed my playstyle going to a table with bigger pockets. Sure I miss more balls on the tighter table but that's because I flat out miss the pocket. I shouldn't be able to cut a ball down the long rail have it bounce of the first diamond and still drop into the pocket.

 

[NineBallNut]

Flipside to that is if he tightens the pockets, he will be forced to learn to play better shape. He won't be able to fire balls at the hole with speed and make 3 rail shapes and such. His ball speed would naturally have to improve or he would get frustrated and quit the game.

 

[Williebetmore]

just asking for your serious thoughts posters. thank you in advance.

DCP

DCP,
Adding one shim to the shim that comes standard on the table is "double-shimmed."

The answer to your question is YES. You definitely want a double-shimmed GCIV (yesterday is none too soon). The regulation GCIV's are too loose. Triple-shimmed is too tight. Double-shimmed is perfect. There is no other way that a serious player should set up his GCIV.

P.S. - You do not need new cushions cut longer - that involves major woodworking for the cushion backings. The double shimmed pockets accept balls NO differently than an un-shimmed GCIV. The only difference is an occasional odd soft bounce on a ball that misses the pocket very close to the point - but that ball was NOT going in the pocket on any table. I've discussed this extensively with the table mechanic. Shims are fine; no downside.

 

[ginsu]

The new standard is 4.5 " for the corners and 4.75 " for the side pockets. Depending on the year your GC was made will determine the number of shims to be used to reach the new standard (there is no reason for anything smaller). The key to shiming a pocket and having it play properly is having it done correctly. It should appear to be an exact extension of the existing cushsions. My GC was made in 1973 and required 3 shims in each pocket (actually 6, 3 per facing) which make the corners exactly 4.5 and the sides 4.75. This size pocket will rattle some balls not hit properly from certain angles and in some cases require better shape. So it should improve your overall play. Anything smaller could actully do damage.

 

[APA7]

ok folks, as most of you may know i live in an apartment above my garage, which is right next to my dear old dad's house. he is 89. and we are about a 5-iron from the nursing home where mother is. she is 86. anyway, the builder of this palace is coming tomorrow, and we are going to talk about possibly expanding this place out by about 12 feet. i need some more room, after 9 years this place is getting a little small.

DCP

This splains a lot~ UR HOW old N UR living with mommy N daddy???????

Brian

 

[Flex]

shim the pockets but pls. take it easy with the "why did i miss this shot" threads

Am I the only one on here, besides DCP of course, who thinks all the "take it easy with the *fill in the blank* threads" is a bit over the top?

If you don't wish to read his threads, don't.

One of these days, someone will come up with a novel idea: giving posters bad rep for dumping on DCP every time they get a chance...

Flex

 

[ginsu]

This splains a lot~ UR HOW old N UR living with mommy N daddy???????

Brian

I think he said on their property but his apartment is away from the house over a garage.

 

[Flex]

As for those who admonish you to not post threads about missing shots they can just skip those threads. Post what you need to post. Truth is that many of them like those threads so they can feel superior as they belittle those who ask for help.

Tap, tap, tap!

 

[TATE]

ok folks, as most of you may know i live in an apartment above my garage, which is right next to my dear old dad's house. he is 89. and we are about a 5-iron from the nursing home where mother is. she is 86. anyway, the builder of this palace is coming tomorrow, and we are going to talk about possibly expanding this place out by about 12 feet. i need some more room, after 9 years this place is getting a little small.

anyway, if i decide to expand this garage/apartment, i am going to have him add some extra floor joists in case i want to move the Gold Crown IV from the makeshift pool room in the garage back to the upstairs. and if that happens i am contemplating as to whether or not i should have the pockets shimmed or not?

what do you posters recommend here? would you shim the pockets? or perhaps double shim the pockets? do you prefer to have bigger pockets on your home table to build confidence? or do you prefer tighter pockets on your home table, figuring when you go somewhere to play you will play better on bigger pockets?

just asking for your serious thoughts posters. thank you in advance.

DCP

There is nothing worse for your game than a table with big, sloppy buckets. Bad shots go in, pockets are cheated for postion with ease - it's great for your ego but terrible for your game.

I think a practice table with 4.5" corners and 5" sides is right on a GC. It's enough to keep most players honest. Expert players should look for a little tighter. Tight pockets will eventually improve your game, but if they are too tight you might find yourself trying to cinch or slow roll your shots and you might lose some willingness to freely stroke the ball.

A tight table visually and dramatically shows a player exactly how they hit the ball, and will not allow you to get away with playing bad angles.

If you can swing $600 or $700 for a complete re-do, I would have new German rubber installed and cut to your specs instead of shims.

Chris

 

[Flex]

Shoot softer and play differently on a shimmed table? Unless your normal game consists of horribly cheating the pocket or just missing by a quarter ball often, I don't see why it'd be necessary.

I've played for the past 3 years on triple-shimmed tables and never changed my playstyle going to a table with bigger pockets. Sure I miss more balls on the tighter table but that's because I flat out miss the pocket. I shouldn't be able to cut a ball down the long rail have it bounce of the first diamond and still drop into the pocket.

I guess you haven't played on the tables I've come across at Chris's Billiards in Chicago for example. Not every table, but 3 in particular. Tables 9 and 10, the money tables, are very tight. Smokin' 'em down the rails has to be done with care. Table 6 is not only tight, but the slowest in the joint. The other tables (more than 40) are standard to buckets. There is also one table in the tournament room that is tighter than normal.

If you're able to play the same way on the super slow table 6, and a fast table with buckets, congratulations. For us duffers, though, extra care is needed on 6, 9 and 10. Actually, not only for the duffers, but for the pros as well.

Flex

 

[Flex]

Flipside to that is if he tightens the pockets, he will be forced to learn to play better shape. He won't be able to fire balls at the hole with speed and make 3 rail shapes and such. His ball speed would naturally have to improve or he would get frustrated and quit the game.

Absolutely right.