Drill to stop elbow drop
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
My hamsters were trained to focus on the object ball and not the wishy-washy motion of my cue so they didn't become faint of heart.
Habits are hard to break.
Bill, I've made a couple of jests about elbow drop but in all seriousness, I have purposefully reduced my elbow drop and it has helped my precision in pocketing balls and shooting the cue ball straighter.
What I have done is set up shots where I missed certain shots which I thought were caused by elbow drop before, during or after tip contact with the cue ball. Most will say the danger of elbow drop is before cue ball contact and I can't disagree with that for sure. All I really know is that on shots that I missed, I set them back up and made sure that I did a pendulum stroke and did not drop my elbow. The balls fell after that, although I noticed a reduction in power. I can live with a little reduced power if I continue to pocket the balls.
REPETITION is your friend in reducing or eliminating elbow drop. It will take about 30 days of daily effort to break the habit. I don't worry much about elbow drop anymore but if I start missing balls, I make sure to "PIN" my elbow and when I do, they get back to finding their way in to the pocket.
Good shooting,
Bill, I've made a couple of jests about elbow drop but in all seriousness, I have purposefully reduced my elbow drop and it has helped my precision in pocketing balls and shooting the cue ball straighter.
What I have done is set up shots where I missed certain shots which I thought were caused by elbow drop before, during or after tip contact with the cue ball. Most will say the danger of elbow drop is before cue ball contact and I can't disagree with that for sure. All I really know is that on shots that I missed, I set them back up and made sure that I did a pendulum stroke and did not drop my elbow. The balls fell after that, although I noticed a reduction in power. I can live with a little reduced power if I continue to pocket the balls.
REPETITION is your friend in reducing or eliminating elbow drop. It will take about 30 days of daily effort to break the habit. I don't worry much about elbow drop anymore but if I start missing balls, I make sure to "PIN" my elbow and when I do, they get back to finding their way in to the pocket.
Good shooting,
Great post, Joey! One thing I'd like to add, is that when you're focused on pinning that elbow, you also become more aware of "where that elbow is" in relation to the rest of your stance. I.e. the focused practice on pinning your elbow also -- as a side benefit -- makes you acutely aware that your arm is positioned the way it should be, straight up and down in relation to the cue, and also perpendicular to the cue at the "set" position. It's almost like a "pull through" benefit, by merely focusing on minimizing the elbow drop. You don't have to think about doing this "side benefit" -- it just happens by merely the minimizing-the-elbow-drop thing.
The drills that highlight this (e.g. the aforementioned draw and follow shots) are great at doing double-duty in the same spirit.
-Sean
Wrist motion is not required (or recommended) with a pendulum stroke. With a light grip, the cue can pivot within the grip. For a demonstration, see:
Regards,
Dave
Any for lots of info on elbow drop, including lists of advantages and disadvantages, see:
Regards,
Dave
In the videos, I did my best to present arguments for both open and closed bridges; however, you are right ... I am an open-bridge advocate (hence the possible bias in the video).
I personally think the open bridge has many advantages over a closed bridge, for most people. For more info, see:
Regards,
Dave
Dave:
Good grief. With your penchant for linking in your responses, I have a new nickname for you:
Dave URLciatore, HttpD
I should write an RFC document that illustrates the "Dave URLciatore Method" of responding to every email and post with links, often multiple times to the same webpage in one writing.
oke: 
-Sean
Joey, so in the spirit of the correct use of that term, as applied to the character in my signature, would Eeyore say:
"A tail is not a tail. It's just some lagniappe at the end."
?
-Sean
Sean,Dave:
Good grief. With your penchant for linking in your responses, I have a new nickname for you:
Dave URLciatore, HttpD
I should write an RFC document that illustrates the "Dave URLciatore Method" of responding to every email and post with links, often multiple times to the same webpage in one writing.
-Sean
When I or others have a resource (article, video, webpage) that already addresses in detail the topic being discussed, I provide a link to the resource. I post links to my FAQ resource pages instead of trying to quote the information here because it can sometimes be difficult and time-consuming to do this, especially if there are article links, embedded video demos, numerous quotes from others, and lots of formatting.
I know some people actually like it when I provide links to additional information resources. For the people that don't like it (e.g., you), here is my advice:
Don't click on the links if you don't want to see the info. 
:grin:
:grin:Regards,
Dave
Sean,
When I or others have a resource (article, video, webpage) that already addresses in detail the topic being discussed, I provide a link to the resource. I post links to my FAQ resource pages instead of trying to quote the information here because it can sometimes be difficult and time-consuming to do this, especially if there are article links, embedded video demos, numerous quotes from others, and lots of formatting.
I know some people actually like it when I provide links to additional information resources. For the people that don't like it (e.g., you), here is my advice:
Don't click on the links if you don't want to see the info.
Regards,
Dave
Dave:
You missed my point. First, I was elbowing you in a friendly way. Second, I was only half-kidding about the prolific linking. You *do* link a little bit much. When, in the span of only two consecutive posts, you link to the exact same video, you don't think that's a bit much?
Think of being at the dinner table. The host offers you the serving plate with the main course of the day. You partake, and have some of that chicken (or pork, or beef, or tofu, et al.). You're about to settle in, and dig in. Then the host offers you that same serving plate again. "Here, have some chicken (or pork, or beef... etc.)." You say that you already have some, and are about to dig-in to the first serving that you haven't even touched yet. But the host is insistent and keeps offering you that serving plate. Even in the great hospitality, don't you think you'd be just a little bit stern with that host to stop offering the serving plate?
And, on a funny note, you aren't turning into an opposite-chromatic version of JoeyA, with the red fonts, are you?
(In case you didn't catch it, I'm elbowing you again.
)-Sean
Sean,
When I or others have a resource (article, video, webpage) that already addresses in detail the topic being discussed, I provide a link to the resource. I post links to my FAQ resource pages instead of trying to quote the information here because it can sometimes be difficult and time-consuming to do this, especially if there are article links, embedded video demos, numerous quotes from others, and lots of formatting.
I know some people actually like it when I provide links to additional information resources. For the people that don't like it (e.g., you), here is my advice:
Don't click on the links if you don't want to see the info.
Regards,
Dave
I always thought the classy move would be to build-up the content on AZB by copy/pasting the information here in lieu of driving all the traffic to your website. Since you spend so much time here, you might as well help build the house -- know what I mean? Link to your billiards.colostate.edu site in your autosig and start pasting the content here.
Take a lesson from Jerry Breisath, I took a lesson from him and that is all he focused on. Drills to remove elbow drop, video recording of the stroke to show elbow drop, lectures on how elbow drop is bad. Nothing about aiming, shape play, nothing but elbow drop, for 6 freaking hours.
It was a long time ago but the crux of the lesson was a drill where you stoked the cue one handed using the rail for the bridge with no cueball and focused on getting the tip to decend after the contact point, which would be at 90 degrees. The tip will be at it's highest point at contact with a no elbow drop stroke, it takes a parabolic path through the cueball. This is why it is so natural for people to drop the elbow, it makes the cue maintain a more consistent path through the cueball.
If you want to make sure your elbow is not moving you need to make sure that tip is going downward on the followthrough, if it is not then you are dropping your elbow.
It was a long time ago but the crux of the lesson was a drill where you stoked the cue one handed using the rail for the bridge with no cueball and focused on getting the tip to decend after the contact point, which would be at 90 degrees. The tip will be at it's highest point at contact with a no elbow drop stroke, it takes a parabolic path through the cueball. This is why it is so natural for people to drop the elbow, it makes the cue maintain a more consistent path through the cueball.
If you want to make sure your elbow is not moving you need to make sure that tip is going downward on the followthrough, if it is not then you are dropping your elbow.
A huge number of pro players use ulnar and radial deviation in the backstroke and followthrough as they come through the cueball. It adds alot of stroke power and lessens the amount of force required by the larger muscles on every shot. This is why we often here about how pro's seem to get more power and action with less of a stroke then amatures think they should. I don't think I have ever seen a Filipino player shoot without those two particular deviations. When set up properly with a proper stroke those two don't affect the aim of the shot from a side to side sense, they simply affect cue tip height and cue angle when measured from the plane of attack.
The real killer is if a player puts in some flexion, extension, pronation, or supination, all of those are moves that add nothing to a stroke but that can cause serious aiming flaws. That said I have seen ALOT of semi decent players who have a constant flexion position in their stroking arm and Keith McCready and Willie Hoppe have a ton of extension.
I think ulnar and radial deviation are a positive over the long run, they are crucial to create a truly powerful stroke as the top professional male players have. The other wrist movements are negatives or at best issues that have to be learned around.
Elbow drop after contact is not in any way harmful to a solid stroke..... Most elbow drop during the shot is due to the arm being too far forward of perpendicular to the cue.
What happens is you use up all of the wrist 's ability to ulnar deviate at which point the elbow has to drop to hit the cue... This is exactly how the piston stroke comes about. Arm is forward wrist is almost completely deviated at setup and the only way to propel the cue is to drop the elbow to create a stabbing motion like with a foil......
Correct the arm and wrist and the elbow will quit dropping until after contact.....
What happens is you use up all of the wrist 's ability to ulnar deviate at which point the elbow has to drop to hit the cue... This is exactly how the piston stroke comes about. Arm is forward wrist is almost completely deviated at setup and the only way to propel the cue is to drop the elbow to create a stabbing motion like with a foil......
Correct the arm and wrist and the elbow will quit dropping until after contact.....
Try and drop the elbow with the cue as low and level as you can get with the arm perpendicular at impact.. you'll be knuckle banging and leaving little flesh trails on the cloth if you drop it before you are thru the cueball....
This may be counterproductive to the no elbow drop concept, but what I find is....If I focus more on just keeping the cue smooth and level on the takeaway and keeping the cue stick smooth and level on the follow through....(all while keeping the head still)... it does a couple things..
It seems to automatically shorten the stroke both backstroke and follow through...and it helps keep the stroke arm "solid" for the entire stroke instead of getting that winding up feeling on the back stroke with a dropping or "raising" elbow.
My thoughts are that if the cue is being delivered smoothly, accurately, level and "consistent"...it really does not matter how your arm accomplishes that feat...(thus that is why you see all different kinds of deliveries of the cue)
I think..."consistent" is the most important part of all this.
It seems to automatically shorten the stroke both backstroke and follow through...and it helps keep the stroke arm "solid" for the entire stroke instead of getting that winding up feeling on the back stroke with a dropping or "raising" elbow.
My thoughts are that if the cue is being delivered smoothly, accurately, level and "consistent"...it really does not matter how your arm accomplishes that feat...(thus that is why you see all different kinds of deliveries of the cue)
I think..."consistent" is the most important part of all this.