I'm glad Jayson ran his number - but I had Filler booked to be able to beat 526 and 626 in this event. I also really want to see Ruslan back at the table.
Eagle Eye Takes Aim at 14.1 High Runs
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
He's coming so we will see, he's another great shot.
That can't be the same table being used in this event, if you put those balls half way in the jaw of the pocket, split the balls down the middle, from point to point, the balls are 4 1/2' but the gap in between has to be well over a 1/2" which means those pockets would be bigger than claimed in this event. That can't be the table used in this event
Here's a screen capture:
Thanks Skip. This is the best photo of the pockets I’ve seen yet. Appears to be roughly 5” at the mouth, roughly 4-1/2” at the throat, roughly 1-3/4” shelf depth, and an estimated PFA of 139° +\-1°.
Not that anyone here cares about my opinion, but I will say that in combination with newly installed Simonis cloth, this would account for extremely favorable but certainly acceptable pocket specs for a 14.1 high run record, given that there are no set standard specs.
That said, these are certainly not acceptable for pockets any pro level player would ever choose to play or practice on, unless of course they were attempting to set a 14.1 high run world record.
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Your right post #1326 & 1327You obviously can't judge pocket size
Eagle Eye Takes Aim at 14.1 High Runs
Scotsman Jayson Shaw, 2010 World Blackball Champion, will be up next to attempt 14.1 high runs at Street Light Billiards Academy in the Legends of Pocket Billiards 14.1 Challenge, perhaps as soon as this week -- exact date and time to be...
forums.azbilliards.com
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I just made a ridiculously long post discussing some of this: Shuddy’s take on 14.1 high runs
But here’s my final thoughts on it:
BUT HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT WITH REGARDS TO THIS ISSUE (I pressed all the options for this text!!)
People discussing pocket measurements and angles are doing so if there is some kind of standard to be adhered to regarding solo exhibition high runs in straight pool. To my knowledge, there is no such standard. When the BCA reviewed Schmidt’s 626 footage, what standards did they use to assess the validity of the run? Did they have the exact measurements and angles of the pockets on his table? When for decades we accepted Mosconi’s 526 as the official high run, what standards did we apply to our acceptance of that? As we accept Florian’s cue ball spinning on the spot for 40 seconds, what standards do we apply to that? Do we know how heavy his cue ball was or what kind of cloth he used?
American pool has enough trouble applying standards to it’s most popular formats, and just as much difficulty making the game a professional sport, but somehow, people think they have enough information about both tables in question to determine one run’s validity over the other based on some kind of intangible standard they’ve created for the acceptance of solo exhibition straight pool runs.
Finally, from my point of view, here’s what matters.
John Schmidt set himself the goal of beating Mosconi’s recognized world record high run of 526. He spent months, not to mention the years leading up to that point, dedicating himself solely to the pursuit of that goal. When he missed on a 300, he picked up his cue and started again. When he missed on a 400, he picked up his cue and started again. I can’t imagine how he must have felt and the determination he must have mustered to continue fighting to achieve his goal. He surely battled demons that tried to stop him. He overcame those demons and achieved his goal. And no one can take that away from him. He beat Mosconi’s officially recognized word record run of 526, a record that stood for decades, and that will always be his achievement, in his life, and in the record books that persist after him.
Jayson Shaw, in this last week, has displayed a ruthless bullheaded focus and persistence that I’ve never witnessed before, culminating in a 12 hour session that ran from 9PM to 9AM, with his final inning resulting in the consecutive potting of 714 balls. Jayson Shaw set himself a target of beating 500. When he missed on 200, 300, and 400, he didn’t even falter. He pulled the balls out of the pockets, picked up his cue, and started again. He couldn’t even bring himself to drive away from the table, turning his car around, checking his family back into the hotel, and coming back to the venue for one final push. After his run of 714 balls, he had blisters on his fingers and he commented to the viewers that they would not believe how sore his back was. The improvement he displayed from day to day, even session to session, was obvious to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the game. He too must have battled demons that tried to stop him, and he too overcame those demons.
Pool is a sport of determination, will, endurance, physical and mental precision, doubt and fear, confidence and certainty, elation and despair. And both John Schmidt and Jayson Shaw experienced all of these things in the pursuit of their goal. They are both Legends of the Game that we all love.
Thank you, John Schmidt, for doing what many thought was impossible in the modern age. Thank you, Jayson Shaw, for inspiring me and I’m sure many others with your incredible display of determination and downright stubborn refusal to give up. And thank you to Street Lights and Legends for giving us railbirds the opportunity to enjoy every moment of this event.
This is pool distilled; one man and a table
But here’s my final thoughts on it:
BUT HERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT WITH REGARDS TO THIS ISSUE (I pressed all the options for this text!!)
People discussing pocket measurements and angles are doing so if there is some kind of standard to be adhered to regarding solo exhibition high runs in straight pool. To my knowledge, there is no such standard. When the BCA reviewed Schmidt’s 626 footage, what standards did they use to assess the validity of the run? Did they have the exact measurements and angles of the pockets on his table? When for decades we accepted Mosconi’s 526 as the official high run, what standards did we apply to our acceptance of that? As we accept Florian’s cue ball spinning on the spot for 40 seconds, what standards do we apply to that? Do we know how heavy his cue ball was or what kind of cloth he used?
American pool has enough trouble applying standards to it’s most popular formats, and just as much difficulty making the game a professional sport, but somehow, people think they have enough information about both tables in question to determine one run’s validity over the other based on some kind of intangible standard they’ve created for the acceptance of solo exhibition straight pool runs.
Finally, from my point of view, here’s what matters.
John Schmidt set himself the goal of beating Mosconi’s recognized world record high run of 526. He spent months, not to mention the years leading up to that point, dedicating himself solely to the pursuit of that goal. When he missed on a 300, he picked up his cue and started again. When he missed on a 400, he picked up his cue and started again. I can’t imagine how he must have felt and the determination he must have mustered to continue fighting to achieve his goal. He surely battled demons that tried to stop him. He overcame those demons and achieved his goal. And no one can take that away from him. He beat Mosconi’s officially recognized word record run of 526, a record that stood for decades, and that will always be his achievement, in his life, and in the record books that persist after him.
Jayson Shaw, in this last week, has displayed a ruthless bullheaded focus and persistence that I’ve never witnessed before, culminating in a 12 hour session that ran from 9PM to 9AM, with his final inning resulting in the consecutive potting of 714 balls. Jayson Shaw set himself a target of beating 500. When he missed on 200, 300, and 400, he didn’t even falter. He pulled the balls out of the pockets, picked up his cue, and started again. He couldn’t even bring himself to drive away from the table, turning his car around, checking his family back into the hotel, and coming back to the venue for one final push. After his run of 714 balls, he had blisters on his fingers and he commented to the viewers that they would not believe how sore his back was. The improvement he displayed from day to day, even session to session, was obvious to anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the game. He too must have battled demons that tried to stop him, and he too overcame those demons.
Pool is a sport of determination, will, endurance, physical and mental precision, doubt and fear, confidence and certainty, elation and despair. And both John Schmidt and Jayson Shaw experienced all of these things in the pursuit of their goal. They are both Legends of the Game that we all love.
Thank you, John Schmidt, for doing what many thought was impossible in the modern age. Thank you, Jayson Shaw, for inspiring me and I’m sure many others with your incredible display of determination and downright stubborn refusal to give up. And thank you to Street Lights and Legends for giving us railbirds the opportunity to enjoy every moment of this event.
This is pool distilled; one man and a table
With pockets that big, I'd say, hell, invite Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles to come and play, but I know Ray passed away years agoHere's a screen capture:
You measure a pocket opening from point to point, not from inside the pocket from one side to the other, learn something! The screen shot just posted shows a pocket opening to be from 5 1/4" to 5 1/2" wide at the mouth, not 5".
But I will say this, huge pockets only play a role in the pocketing of the balls, and has nothing to do with breaking out the rack, having a shot after breaking the rack, avoiding scratching on the break, which is much easier to happen. Huge pockets have no bearing on focus, determination, and the confidence to believe you can keep pocketing balls without missing. To be fair, Jayson did all that and ran 714 balls, congratulations. Problem now is, unless played on this specific table, or a table mirrored to this table, any attempts to try and compete and challenge the high run record are going to much harder to achieve without the help of THIS table, so what you have here is an exclusive playground, a one of a kind.
Finally, a thoughtful and positive post. If this could be your last word regarding this topic, you might actually have a shot at regaining some semblance of respect on this forum, not that you care.
If the balls actually touched each other in the throat of the pocket, that would be 4 1/2' but there's no way they can touch. The balls are sitting inside the mouth of the pocket, and still looks to have a 1/2" gap between the balls, and between the balls and the facings. Split the points of the pocket with the balls halfway in, like the mouth of the pocket is suppose to be measured,
not with the balls inside the mouth of the pocket.
I didn't catch that in the picture showing the calipers measuring the pocket opening, they're measuring inside the jaws of the pocket, not between the points.
A 1/2” gap between the balls you claim? Are you blind? The two balls are frozen to each other!
You should have laid it to rest after your previous post.
True but if they were in the throat one ball touching each side there would be a gap between them..maybe lol:
Still, what Jayson did was amazing! Props to all involved for making this happen. The drama over the pockets is kind of crazy and takes away from what was accomplished for some.- not me.
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Oh I have all the respect in the world for the players today, and support them as much as I can. My problem is with those who would rather change the legitimacy of the sport to fit their own personal agenda.
I would have rather seen ALL 14.1 high run records thrown out on the basis of non-repeatability because of the one off tables they were set on. Instead, with this being 2022 I would have been all in support of creating a NEW real world record, on today's equipment, with today's pocket dimensions, and forget the yesteryear records.
What this event really tells me, is that today's players are not GOOD enough to break yesterday's high run records, Willie's 526 for example, without the help of a GAFFE pool table, and I just refuse to believe that. I feel strongly that today's players, at least a few of them, HAVE that ability to break the 526 record on a table with 4 1/2" corner pockets and 5" sides. And today, the world has these table specs all over, in almost every pool playing country on this planet. They ONLY reason Willie's record has never fallen, 20 years ago even, was the lack of incentive.
But no, this event is all about HELPING the players break records, set new records, be a part of an exclusive club of players, and keep the rest of the world out.
If the Diamond 9ft ProAm was used just for example, thats today's standard tournament table, sets the standard for other tables pocket openings, and players from all over the world could jump in on this high run challenge. All that would have been needed was a set of rules in which ALL pool rooms wanting to partisapate in this competition, would have to adhere to in order to be officially recognized. 14.1 would spread world wide on that basis, but no, this event clearly shows the players need help in breaking records, so, make the table work for them, because they're not good enough on their own to break records.
What a shame!
Based on this photo, enlarging this photo, and then taking some measurements, I could buy that this is a 5-1/4” mouth and a 4-3/4” throat. However, this is clearly not parallel 135° pocket facing angles, but more like 138°-139°. Can we at least agree to that?
Are YOU blind? Yes the balls are frozen together, but they have gaps between the balls and the facings, right? The balls are clear INSIDE the jaws of the pocket, right? If the throat of the pocket was 4 1/2' the balls would not only be touching each other, they'd be touching both sides of the pocket as well, RIGHT? If you moved those balls out to the jaws of the pocket, splitting the balls in half, the mouth of that pocket is definitely wider than 5" as well.
This is hysterical. That table the old guys (Willie especially) played on forever years ago had pockets at least this big or bigger. Players today aren't as good, give me a break, what a joke... Everyone wants to hang on to sh!t, mostly because if you let go, it's like letting go a piece of yourself because it was part of "your time" or whatever... Just quit it man.
when this nonsense was vomited out here during Earl's try, yeah yeah ok, the man pissed off a lot of people ok, I get it... but after Shaw please!
NOT GOOD ENOUGH... delusional!