Earl Strickland/John Schmidt altercation at BCA
- Thread starter Williebetmore
- Start date
shinobi said:
Should I name them, so that admirers of those players that I name will be angered with my opinion? I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night.
Turn on the TV in America when pool is being broadcast in America. I don't think it is too difficult to figure out who plays like a robot and throughout the duration of the match has the exact mannerisms of a Buckingham Guard.
I can tell you this, if Earl Strickland is on the tube, there is never a dull moment.
JAM
we may still be barking up the wrong tree
JAM,
I too think that we have to make pool more interesting to appeal to the general television watching public. But as I was watching the same matches that had been televised for the umpteenth time a few days ago I had to admit that there are only two or three NFL football games from the last forty years that are not basically live that I will watch. We may have as much of a problem with what is being broadcast as much as how it is being shown. I don't care too much about what happened in 2006, it is old news. I think the newest men's match I have seen lately was one from 2003. The newest event before that was from 2000 and then they dropped back to the early and mid nineties. If a player I hope to learn from is shooting I may watch but these things have already been shown seemingly forever. Besides which, most of the timeslots are lousy.
Woman's pool is getting events on the air that are only a few months old, and many first run events. That may be as much of the key to why they get better ratings as anything else.
Hu
JAM,
I too think that we have to make pool more interesting to appeal to the general television watching public. But as I was watching the same matches that had been televised for the umpteenth time a few days ago I had to admit that there are only two or three NFL football games from the last forty years that are not basically live that I will watch. We may have as much of a problem with what is being broadcast as much as how it is being shown. I don't care too much about what happened in 2006, it is old news. I think the newest men's match I have seen lately was one from 2003. The newest event before that was from 2000 and then they dropped back to the early and mid nineties. If a player I hope to learn from is shooting I may watch but these things have already been shown seemingly forever. Besides which, most of the timeslots are lousy.
Woman's pool is getting events on the air that are only a few months old, and many first run events. That may be as much of the key to why they get better ratings as anything else.
Hu
JAM said:Should I name them, so that admirers of those players that I name will be angered with my opinion? I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night.
Turn on the TV in America when pool is being broadcast in America. I don't think it is too difficult to figure out who plays like a robot and throughout the duration of the match has the exact mannerisms of a Buckingham Guard.
I can tell you this, if Earl Strickland is on the tube, there is never a dull moment.
JAM
JAM said:
I've posted this link a few times, and got zero comment. Maybe, if it is opened, it is only glanced at, not read to the end.
http://www.planitplus.net/careerzone/areas/?PID=nf&SECL=24SP&ID=600
Perhaps the dreamers of life as a pool god don't want to face reality
The point is that, historically, name recognition and important tournament wins are simply stepping stones to giving exhibitions, entertaining, and attracting a larger audience.
And until you get there, you need real-life employment.
Scaramouche said:I've posted this link a few times, and got zero comment. Maybe, if it is opened, it is only glanced at, not read to the end.
http://www.planitplus.net/careerzone/areas/?PID=nf&SECL=24SP&ID=600
Perhaps the dreamers of life as a pool god don't want to face reality
The point is that, historically, name recognition and important tournament wins are simply stepping stones to giving exhibitions, entertaining, and attracting a larger audience.
And until you get there, you need real-life employment.
I enjoyed reading the linked article, but snooker is kind of a different animal, in some respects, in reference to American pool.
Attracting a larger audience is key, I agree. The existing American pool culture, as evidenced by the numerous pool player-bashing articles on this forum, is not the audience that needs to be attracted. They as a whole don't give a hoot whether pool elevates in the States. Today, social shooters, bar bangers, and leagues are where it's at for pool industry members. Even American cuemakers send their products overseas where they are gobbled up like candy. In America, the majority of social shooters, bar bangers, and league players are not interested in owning a custom-made cue that hits like a ton. They're happy with the Cuetec variety or production cues, if you will. They're not expensive and meets their budget. Pool is a recreational game to these folks and not a sport.
I could visit a league night in Laurel, Maryland, on any day of the week and ask any one of those league players if they know who Efren Reyes or Earl Strickland or John Schimdt, the current U.S. Open winner, is, and there would be blank stares. A few of them might remember that "Asian lady who dresses in black," but they may not remember her name.
Pool needs recognition in the United States, and it will not get there with robotic Buckingham guards. Until there is a change in the way pool is broadcast on American TV, the industry as a whole, to include professional players, will struggle. The pool industry today targets league players, and the league players, social shooters, and bar bangers do not recognize pool as a sport.
So there you have it. Pool needs to provide something NEW on American TV rather than the way it is now. I do not have the answer, but I know that the way it is broadcast today doesn't seem to be bringing in the masses.
JAM
Very valid observations, ShootingArts!
Of course, broadcasting pool live on American TV today will never happen, and we both know the reasons why.
Go to Philippines, though, and pool is as popular as baseball is here in the States. Live television coverage works great in the countries that accept pool as a sport.
Since the American public as a whole does not recognize pool as a sport, there needs to be another way to attract the interest, which in my opinion is the entertainment value, just like Fats, Mizerak, and Mosconi did in their era. Americans knew who they were, and if they were surfing the TV channels, they might stop and watch these guys play pool because these players offered entertainment.
After mainstream America is hooked, then and only then will robotic Buckingham guards draw a little interest. Otherwise, they're stinking up American TV, and this type of pool on TV is doing more harm than it is good. JMHO, FWIW!
JAM
Of course, broadcasting pool live on American TV today will never happen, and we both know the reasons why.
Go to Philippines, though, and pool is as popular as baseball is here in the States. Live television coverage works great in the countries that accept pool as a sport.
Since the American public as a whole does not recognize pool as a sport, there needs to be another way to attract the interest, which in my opinion is the entertainment value, just like Fats, Mizerak, and Mosconi did in their era. Americans knew who they were, and if they were surfing the TV channels, they might stop and watch these guys play pool because these players offered entertainment.
After mainstream America is hooked, then and only then will robotic Buckingham guards draw a little interest. Otherwise, they're stinking up American TV, and this type of pool on TV is doing more harm than it is good. JMHO, FWIW!
JAM
ShootingArts said:
I agree that the public must be entertained . . .
I agree that the public must be entertained. Unfortunately I have to admit that I am one of the Buckingham guard types. I don't show emotion when I make a bad shot because it is often perceived as a weakness. I don't show emotion when I make a good shot because then not showing emotion may be considered an acknowledgement that I made a bad shot. Also I occasionally make an outstanding shot that may not be obvious. I prefer to leave folks guessing if it was planned or not. Fortunately I'll never be on TV.
Until and unless all competitors start showing emotion I think it is a disadvantage. I do think that it would be a good idea for governing bodies and sponsors to encourage showing emotion, properly expressed at the proper time of course. I was surprised to see one of the "Buckingham guard" types burst into tears after winning a big match. The emotions are there just tightly held in check or at least not demonstrated.
As always, I see this as a Catch-22 situation. We need more excitement in pool to attract a general audience, and I consider providing that excitement by showing emotion a sign of weakness that gives your opponent something to feed on.
Hu
JAM said:
I agree that the public must be entertained. Unfortunately I have to admit that I am one of the Buckingham guard types. I don't show emotion when I make a bad shot because it is often perceived as a weakness. I don't show emotion when I make a good shot because then not showing emotion may be considered an acknowledgement that I made a bad shot. Also I occasionally make an outstanding shot that may not be obvious. I prefer to leave folks guessing if it was planned or not. Fortunately I'll never be on TV.
Until and unless all competitors start showing emotion I think it is a disadvantage. I do think that it would be a good idea for governing bodies and sponsors to encourage showing emotion, properly expressed at the proper time of course. I was surprised to see one of the "Buckingham guard" types burst into tears after winning a big match. The emotions are there just tightly held in check or at least not demonstrated.
As always, I see this as a Catch-22 situation. We need more excitement in pool to attract a general audience, and I consider providing that excitement by showing emotion a sign of weakness that gives your opponent something to feed on.
Hu
I agree with your thoughts, Shooting Arts, and, hey, listen, I think competitors gotta do whatever they got to do to win, and if it means playing like an emotionless Buckingham Guard, then that's what a player should do. This style of player, however, should not be showcased on American TV. It is not attracting new interest, which is sorely needed.
I'll give you an example that I am familiar with. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Jeremy Jones was undefeated all the way to the end, and he was a very deserving champion. However, if you had been there sitting in the audience watching this match between him and Jose Parica, you, like most others who were in attendance, may not have enjoyed watching this long and drawn-out match. I remember Corey Deuel sitting in the audience looking over at Keith, shaking his head. However, if Keith has been in Jeremy's shoes, I'd want him to play EXACTLY in a style that is comfortable to him because, after all, it is the almighty win and U.S. Open title that is important, not how attractive it is to an audience.
On TV, though, especially here in the States, this style of play isn't worthy of watching. I find myself switching channels when pool on TV sometimes, and I like pool.
Now, there is nothing wrong with emotionless robotic players, but to put them in full view on TV representing pool in America, I'm sorry, but this is doing more harm than good.
American pool needs a boost. Movies like The Hustler and TCOM did a lot for the American pool industry, but those days are over. Players like Mizerak, Fats, and Mosconi showcased pool on TV, and it was popular, but those days, too, are over. Robotic and emotionless Buckingham Guards, as good as they play, are not the answer to elevating pool in the States, unfortunately. Though some of these players are world champions, their style of play is BORING, BORING, BORING to mainstream America, and when it is televised, it is a big turn-off to the majority of the American TV viewing audience, which includes myself.
JAM
I'll give you an example that I am familiar with. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Jeremy Jones was undefeated all the way to the end, and he was a very deserving champion. However, if you had been there sitting in the audience watching this match between him and Jose Parica, you, like most others who were in attendance, may not have enjoyed watching this long and drawn-out match. I remember Corey Deuel sitting in the audience looking over at Keith, shaking his head. However, if Keith has been in Jeremy's shoes, I'd want him to play EXACTLY in a style that is comfortable to him because, after all, it is the almighty win and U.S. Open title that is important, not how attractive it is to an audience.
On TV, though, especially here in the States, this style of play isn't worthy of watching. I find myself switching channels when pool on TV sometimes, and I like pool.
Now, there is nothing wrong with emotionless robotic players, but to put them in full view on TV representing pool in America, I'm sorry, but this is doing more harm than good.
American pool needs a boost. Movies like The Hustler and TCOM did a lot for the American pool industry, but those days are over. Players like Mizerak, Fats, and Mosconi showcased pool on TV, and it was popular, but those days, too, are over. Robotic and emotionless Buckingham Guards, as good as they play, are not the answer to elevating pool in the States, unfortunately. Though some of these players are world champions, their style of play is BORING, BORING, BORING to mainstream America, and when it is televised, it is a big turn-off to the majority of the American TV viewing audience, which includes myself.
JAM
ShootingArts said:
Me TOO
I agree. You don't see pool, darts, Foosball, miniature golf or Roshambo (rock,paper,scissors) covered in the newspaper here in Central Florida but, they DID have quite a few nice write-ups this week about beach volleyball (due to Karch Kiraly's participation this weekend here)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karch_Kiraly
Doug
( I prefer the girls in the bikinis )
Neil said:
I agree. You don't see pool, darts, Foosball, miniature golf or Roshambo (rock,paper,scissors) covered in the newspaper here in Central Florida but, they DID have quite a few nice write-ups this week about beach volleyball (due to Karch Kiraly's participation this weekend here)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karch_Kiraly
Doug
( I prefer the girls in the bikinis )
Smorgass Bored said:
All right, then. I've got an idea, Smorgie, and if there's anybody who can do it, it would be YOU. This is brilliant and may just put pool on the map here in the States. I don't know why this hasn't been thought of before, as it happens all the time in sports and gets put in the national media.
Here it is. Next televised event in Florida as the players are competing on the TV table, I nominate you to streak, running as fast as you can, in the background. The cameras will be rolling, and YOU could be the savior of American pool and get it on national media. Just think, Trudeau's multi-million-dollar events didn't get one iota of a mention on American sports news. However, a streaker just might be the ticket. Are you ready to rumble?
JAM
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Jam
I agree with what you are saying and at times I also find pool boring to watch.
I think that part of the problem for an average sports watcher is that it is difficult to compare the skills of the players and the player with the best skills is not always the winner.
Every game of pool is different (debatable) and skill involved to win any given game will be different from the next. And I believe that the average viewer does not realize the difference and what the real level of skill is involved to become a champion.
I truly believe, when viewed on TV, that a big part of the problem is the game itself.
I suggest a total offensive game where each player shoots an identical series of racks (15 balls) and the winner would be the one who makes the the most balls.
If the layout a certain rack were to be extremely difficult and for example some players could not get past the 6 ball and those who did got stuck at the 11 ball and only a couple of players able to complete the runout.
With good commentary this would allow an average viewer the anticipation of how the most difficult portions of the rack will be negotiated.
I suspect the players would resist such a format but if the average viewer was to become interested it would mean more TV airtime and hopefully more $$$ to the players. And that I would believe would change their opinion.
I started a thread on this topic some time ago.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53578
JMO FWIW
Steve
I agree with what you are saying and at times I also find pool boring to watch.
I think that part of the problem for an average sports watcher is that it is difficult to compare the skills of the players and the player with the best skills is not always the winner.
Every game of pool is different (debatable) and skill involved to win any given game will be different from the next. And I believe that the average viewer does not realize the difference and what the real level of skill is involved to become a champion.
I truly believe, when viewed on TV, that a big part of the problem is the game itself.
I suggest a total offensive game where each player shoots an identical series of racks (15 balls) and the winner would be the one who makes the the most balls.
If the layout a certain rack were to be extremely difficult and for example some players could not get past the 6 ball and those who did got stuck at the 11 ball and only a couple of players able to complete the runout.
With good commentary this would allow an average viewer the anticipation of how the most difficult portions of the rack will be negotiated.
I suspect the players would resist such a format but if the average viewer was to become interested it would mean more TV airtime and hopefully more $$$ to the players. And that I would believe would change their opinion.
I started a thread on this topic some time ago.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53578
JMO FWIW
Steve
Florida Passed A Law Against Me Being NAKED (b/c of the Tourists)
Are you ready to rumble?
I'm ready to rumble, I'm just not ready to RUN (or walk..... nekkid)
Doug
( nice try YAM.... I call you YAM because you're so sweet )
JAM said:All right, then. I've got an idea, Smorgie, and if there's anybody who can do it, it would be YOU. This is brilliant and may just put pool on the map here in the States. I don't know why this hasn't been thought of before, as it happens all the time in sports and gets put in the national media.
Here it is. Next televised event in Florida as the players are competing on the TV table, I nominate you to streak, running as fast as you can, in the background. The cameras will be rolling, and YOU could be the savior of American pool and get it on national media. Just think, Trudeau's multi-million-dollar events didn't get one iota of a mention on American sports news. However, a streaker just might be the ticket.
Are you ready to rumble?
JAM
Are you ready to rumble?
I'm ready to rumble, I'm just not ready to RUN (or walk..... nekkid)
Doug
( nice try YAM.... I call you YAM because you're so sweet )
I Do My BEST Thinking In The 'Reading Room'
I was just in the reading room, checking out the Sunday Sports section of the St. Petersburg Times newspaper and the back page caught my eye.
There were two big color photos of the girls competeing in this weekends "AVP Tour" volleyball matches. The title of the write-up was ""Your Ad Here (for now)" by Bob Putnam and it showed two of the girls sporting 'temporary tattoos' of Corporate Sponsors.
The tattoos were professionaly done and looked great. One was a two color Gatorade tattoo. These are temporary tattoos and seem like an ideal way to get corporate sponsors into the pool/billiard world. Have Gatorade (or some other sponsor) tattooed on the back of your bridge hand (or forearm, etc.) if you're a well known top player in a televised or filmed (ProPoolVideo.comor Accu-Stat, BCN, etc.) event.
If the temporary tattoo gets enough airtime or viewers, perhaps the sponsors would go for shirt, sweater, jacket, hat, poolcase, etc. logos and actually put some money INTO Professional (and amateur) pool.
Maybe, they'd even host tournaments like the Coca-Cola 10 Ball Championships for example.
Doug
( I tried to find today's www.SPTimes.com article by Bob Putnam online to show how nice the tattooes looked, but I didn't have any luck )
I was just in the reading room, checking out the Sunday Sports section of the St. Petersburg Times newspaper and the back page caught my eye.
There were two big color photos of the girls competeing in this weekends "AVP Tour" volleyball matches. The title of the write-up was ""Your Ad Here (for now)" by Bob Putnam and it showed two of the girls sporting 'temporary tattoos' of Corporate Sponsors.
The tattoos were professionaly done and looked great. One was a two color Gatorade tattoo. These are temporary tattoos and seem like an ideal way to get corporate sponsors into the pool/billiard world. Have Gatorade (or some other sponsor) tattooed on the back of your bridge hand (or forearm, etc.) if you're a well known top player in a televised or filmed (ProPoolVideo.comor Accu-Stat, BCN, etc.) event.
If the temporary tattoo gets enough airtime or viewers, perhaps the sponsors would go for shirt, sweater, jacket, hat, poolcase, etc. logos and actually put some money INTO Professional (and amateur) pool.
Maybe, they'd even host tournaments like the Coca-Cola 10 Ball Championships for example.
Doug
( I tried to find today's www.SPTimes.com article by Bob Putnam online to show how nice the tattooes looked, but I didn't have any luck )
Me TOO
JAM sed:
Here it is. Next televised event in Florida as the players are competing on the TV table, I nominate you to streak, running as fast as you can, in the background.
LOL.... 5,000 AZB readers just threw up into their Rice Krispies...
Doug
( including ME....... I need a drink )
JAM sed:
Here it is. Next televised event in Florida as the players are competing on the TV table, I nominate you to streak, running as fast as you can, in the background.
LOL.... 5,000 AZB readers just threw up into their Rice Krispies...
Doug
( including ME....... I need a drink )
JAM said:
The proof is in the pudding. After days of nothing worth watching I just watched an old match of Earl and Francisco. Definitely not bad but starting at noon I have two channels of pool for three hours and the World of Outlaws sprint cars. Sprint cars were my first love so there is no question where my primary attention will be for that hour while checking out the 2007 women's action during commercials. After that it is either the other women's 2007 semi and the final or some more old events. No question I will be watching how people are playing now, not how they played years ago. I enjoy much of the past of the sport but I am more interested in now and the future.
Like it or not, I think we probably need a new game to attract mainstream audiences maybe even a new type of play or new table. Allen Hopkins has surely ran enough by them without gaining more than moderate interest. From my viewpoint I would rather keep professional pool a sport instead of just a game. However, first and foremost, I would like to see professionals able to make a living competing in professional events. I have no objections at all to gambling, what I object to is having to gamble to survive. That makes the actual competition in tournaments little more than a hobby or what they really are for most, a place to get together to gamble.
Old and new events that simply bypass the tournament and get right to the heart of things have proven popular with competitors but I don't think that they would have audience appeal and much of the gambling is technically illegal where it is taking place. Shining a bright light on it just won't work in these places.
Hu
PS: Late night pool on TV puts me to sleep better than anything I can take!
Stretched out player.
I don't like having to clean up after you but here's a home run. Well, at least looking at the main picture feels like a grand slam.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/30/Sports/Bringing_the_beach_to.shtml
JoeyA (sells Temporary Tatoos- customized just 4 U.) They're fun and cheap as sin.
Smorgass Bored said:
I don't like having to clean up after you but here's a home run. Well, at least looking at the main picture feels like a grand slam.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/30/Sports/Bringing_the_beach_to.shtml
JoeyA (sells Temporary Tatoos- customized just 4 U.) They're fun and cheap as sin.
"I can tell you this, if Earl Strickland is on the tube, there is never a dull moment.
JAM"
I don't think anyone turns off the tube when Earl's on...maybe the greatest 9-ball player ever and definitely no robot. Love him or hate him, he's good for pool. BTW, Keith's personality is obviously contagious...whenever he's on TV, he brings out the personality of the other players and gets the audience engaged...he's good for pool too.
JAM"
I don't think anyone turns off the tube when Earl's on...maybe the greatest 9-ball player ever and definitely no robot. Love him or hate him, he's good for pool. BTW, Keith's personality is obviously contagious...whenever he's on TV, he brings out the personality of the other players and gets the audience engaged...he's good for pool too.
$4,000,000.00
Thanks Pal Joey. Did you notice THIS in the article:
"The AVP tour, which offers $4-million in prize money, includes more than 150 players. Its season runs from April to September and is as likely to set up in a parking lot as at a seashore in the 18 cities 13 states on its tour"
Man, that's pretty good money, considering it's ONLY volleyball.... sheesh !
Doug
JoeyA said:
Thanks Pal Joey. Did you notice THIS in the article:
"The AVP tour, which offers $4-million in prize money, includes more than 150 players. Its season runs from April to September and is as likely to set up in a parking lot as at a seashore in the 18 cities 13 states on its tour"
Man, that's pretty good money, considering it's ONLY volleyball.... sheesh !
Doug
rayjay said:
Funny you should mention that!
I've got a few seconds to post, being that Keith just got knocked out of his poker satellite tournaments for the millions on PokerStars!
In times gone by, it was ALWAYS me on the Internet and Keith on the pool table. Today, it is Keith on the Internet playing poker, and me, I'm on the other computer in my home office with no Internet connection, banging out pages for my work. What a team we make in the office setting!
It was relayed to me by two members of the current American tour for men that a discussion ensued that in order to advance professional pool in the States, older players should be swept aside, done away with, and not included. This was said to me not only by EXISTING tour members, but it was WHO said it that was upsetting. This is the climate in the United States for professional pool players Keith's age. Nice deal, huh?!
Now, I am not saying that Smorgie streaking in full view on ESPN or Keith floating around the table with his quips is going to raise the level of awareness of mainstream Americans to the game that we all know and love. However, the current robotic Buckingham Guard-like players are not only keeping pool stuck in the mud in the States, but it just ain't cutting the mustard.
To illustrate my point, there was a high-profile pool tournament in my area that had all of today's super stars competing in it. I personally called all four local news stations to inform them of it, hoping to get a little press time. The replies I got back were: POOL IS NOT A SPORT. There was no interest. And there you have it.
JAM