Earl's Foul

[Rickw]

The real problem here is that Scott was out of position to referee the match. Earl was not obligated to call the foul on himself, that's Scott's job.

Whether Earl should have admitted to it is another matter.

Barbara

Technically speaking, you are absolutely correct Barbara, there was nothing wrong with what Earl did according to the current rules of the game. That being said, the rules SUCK!! I think the pool world should take a serious look at Snooker and how they manage to instill high moral values in their players.

It is my opinion that Earl and anyone that behaves in a similar fashion should be forced to alter their behavior or be banned from the game. This game is always going to be in the shadows unless the people in charge (TD's at large) enforce strict codes of conduct universally.

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Don't they have people in other sports/games being kicked out of competitions and hall's of fame for their character flaws and previous bad decisions?

 

[Rickw]

Don't they have people in other sports/games being kicked out of competitions and hall's of fame for their character flaws and previous bad decisions?

Pete Rose in baseball comes to mind. Of course I know that there is a huge difference between what Pete did and what Earl did but the bottom line is that integrity should be part of the game.

 

[Purdman]

I will agree with you but only to an extent. I feel that Earl's place in the Hall of Fame is deserved as he is one of the best to ever play the game. He was a true competitor and a master of the the game. On skill and accomplishments alone, I do feel that he has earned his spot in the Hall of Fame. However, he is still an embarassment and for him to think that what he has done was to preserve the integirty of the game is truly laughable as all he has done was tarnish it even more.

pharaoh68, I can appriciate your point of view, however I must agree to disagree on this one. If you cheat to get there, it don't count in my book. That goes for Barry Bonds and the rest of the dishonest players in any sport.
Purdman
Dam, It has been pouring all day. I hope this isn't another 40 day, 40 nighter. I got to go dewinterize my boat!

 

[Purdman]

Pete Rose in baseball comes to mind. Of course I know that there is a huge difference between what Pete did and what Earl did but the bottom line is that integrity should be part of the game.

As far as we know, Pete didn't cheat during any games, he just gambled when he wasn't supposed to. Correct me if I am wrong. I am a Pete Rose fan.
Purdman

 

[rackmsuckr]

My only question is why didn't SS see the foul?

He only has one thing to do on that shot...WATCH & MAKE SURE THE 5 DOESN'T MOVE!!!

What a joke-- SS had 17 seconds to get into position to view the shot, and when he got there he positioned himself so he COULDN'T see the hit and then tried to look around Earl after the shot...LOL

That has got to be the worst I have ever seen on the ref's part.

facets--

Hi Mike,

The way I see it is that Scott was still getting into position behind Earl, which is sometimes the best vantage point to watch the shot and Earl shot quickly, then jumped up obscuring everything that happened afterwards. Because Scott is shorter than Earl and because he was watching the action of the cueball, he missed it.

Not calling a foul on yourself is like saying a tree falling in the woods makes no noise if no one is around to hear it.

I always call fouls on myself if I know I fouled. There have been times when I have moved the ball myself and been so intent on the cueball that I did not notice that my cue grazed another ball. I definitely think he knew though, because he says, "Hey, look at that!" In those cases, since I was not really watching, I feel like I must have done whatever the opponent told me, if they jump up and call the foul, even if I never felt contact with anything.

 

[nfty9er]

You need to re-evaluate your opinion

Well good buddy, I don't mind setting a dishonest newbie straight on this one. As a matter of fact, it is my pleasure!

When we lose fundamentals, we supplant them with increasingly inferior values which we pretend are the true values. Tao Te Ching
Seems this is what you have done!

You just might want to re evaluate your low horse position!
Purdman

?
IMO your opinion stinks because it goes against all standards of play in "all" other sports in the history of sport.
If you are participating in a contest that is officiated, refereed, or monitored all game control is in the hands of that person or persons when it comes to fouls, infractions, etc. etc. You did not answer the mans question so I will ask it again. When in the "history" of sport has a player or participant called an infraction on himself? Have you ever seen a football player call holding on himself after his team scored a touchdown? Did he cheat? More so than an unintentional foul in pool. Earl did not cheat, he just did not call something on himself and give his opponent ball in hand. I do not care if the world knew it, he was within his right. Have you ever seen a play disallowed when officials look at instant replay and see a foul. NO. They are not allowed to. No see, no call. Get it?
Do basketball players call their own hacks? No. Do baseball players tell the ump they really trapped the ball. Hell no? If a hockey player high sticks someone on a goal and the ref didn't see it does he call it on himself. The whole world saw it but just have to suck it up. There are a lot worse infractions in sport than what Earl did not a lot more money was at stake. Sports figures get away with what they can, always have and always will.

Now a match that is not officiated, I agree, that is a different matter. Then you must make the call. Golfers have to do it but the difference is which makes my point, golfers are not officiated on the course unless their is a rules official right there. They are in the area so golfers are expected to monitor themselves.
Just like in all sport, some calls go your way and some don't. Earl got a break but lost anyway so it seems what goes around comes around.
So now give me one of your fascious answers and tell me all the sports players called fouls on themselves.

 

[Snorks]

?
You did not answer the mans question so I will ask it again. When in the "history" of sport has a player or participant called an infraction on himself?

I think it was Bobby Jones in the US Open (golf) that lost by 1 stroke after he called a 2 stroke penalty on himself. Similarly I'm sure there are many other golfers that have done the same thing (myself included). I have called fouls in pool on myself and I will continue to do so. Maybe cheating is rewarded (I have seen people not call fouls on themselves and simply said the other person should of been watching more closely).

 

[Rickw]

As far as we know, Pete didn't cheat during any games, he just gambled when he wasn't supposed to. Correct me if I am wrong. I am a Pete Rose fan.
Purdman

You're right Don. I stated that their behavors were different. The thing that is consistent, though, is that both their behaviors lacked integrity. Pete was asked numerous times to tell the truth and he refused - not much integrity there imho.

 

[Purdman]

?
IMO your opinion stinks because it goes against all standards of play in "all" other sports in the history of sport.
If you are participating in a contest that is officiated, refereed, or monitored all game control is in the hands of that person or persons when it comes to fouls, infractions, etc. etc. You did not answer the mans question so I will ask it again. When in the "history" of sport has a player or participant called an infraction on himself? Have you ever seen a football player call holding on himself after his team scored a touchdown? Did he cheat? More so than an unintentional foul in pool. Earl did not cheat, he just did not call something on himself and give his opponent ball in hand. I do not care if the world knew it, he was within his right. Have you ever seen a play disallowed when officials look at instant replay and see a foul. NO. They are not allowed to. No see, no call. Get it?
Do basketball players call their own hacks? No. Do baseball players tell the ump they really trapped the ball. Hell no? If a hockey player high sticks someone on a goal and the ref didn't see it does he call it on himself. The whole world saw it but just have to suck it up. There are a lot worse infractions in sport than what Earl did not a lot more money was at stake. Sports figures get away with what they can, always have and always will.

Now a match that is not officiated, I agree, that is a different matter. Then you must make the call. Golfers have to do it but the difference is which makes my point, golfers are not officiated on the course unless their is a rules official right there. They are in the area so golfers are expected to monitor themselves.
Just like in all sport, some calls go your way and some don't. Earl got a break but lost anyway so it seems what goes around comes around.
So now give me one of your fascious answers and tell me all the sports players called fouls on themselves.

I will kindly agree to disagree with ya nft9er. Honesty, integrity, and good sportsmanship are more important to me than winning. Plain and simple, if you cheat, you are a loser in my book. You have lost your way if you think it is ok. You can tell me about all the cheaters on the planet that get away with it, that don't make it right. You fall in the 50% catagory I was talking about. It is your kind of thinking that has put pool at the bottom of the entertainment ladder. If it wasn't for the other 50% that play for the pure enjoyment of the game I would get rid of all my cues and my table. So in short, get off of my cloud. If you are dishonest and are willing to cheat to win, you got the problem and should re-evaluate your opinion.
Don Purdman

 

[jjinfla]

Good post nfty9er,

And I agree. I guess that the Purdman has never played any other sport. Nor watched any other sport. One that is refereed.

The fact is that most athletes will fight for the point against the ref when they know they were wrong. It is just part of the game. The ref has his job to do and the player has his job to do and officiating is not part of the players job.

Jake

 

[jjinfla]

Hi Mike,


Not calling a foul on yourself is like saying a tree falling in the woods makes no noise if no one is around to hear it.

I.

Noise is like beauty. It only exists in the eyes (ears) of the beholder.

Jake

 

[predator]

Pool players shouldn't act like football players who always do their best to cheat in any way possible. There's always foul faking, pretending to be in agony even after a light contact, stalling...you name it. Referee's cannot always see what's real foul and what is not. Because of this, some even succeed in getting non existing penalty kicks in their favour (recent match Italy vs. Australia). Now this is football, the most popular sport in the world beyond any doubt. But, such behavior is accepted among football fans. To them, it is perfectly normal for their heroes not to have any class whatsoever. They simply don't care.

I hope pool fans don't become like that.

Note: of course, I'm talking about soccer, not american football.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

The underlying problem here isn't with Earl not calling a foul on himself, but with the referee being completely out of position to make the call.

If anything is to be learned from this incident, it's that the referee needs to have a unobstructed view of the player and the table.

 

[GADawg]

In summary, 50% of you think it alright to cheat. That's the bottom line and that is why pool will never get anywhere!!!! Pool has a negative rap without this truth being known. You have just proven them all correct!
Purdman
What a freaking shame!

You are CORRECT! That is why this sport will always be seen as a game for "hustlers" and "lowlife" and not a game with honesty and integrity.

It is a shame, because I love the game, but that is how it seems to be.

Also, I think that anybody who would do one thing if money is on the line, but something else if no money is at stake is a real hypocrite who carries his ethics in his wallet.

 

[UGOTDA7]

Good post nfty9er,

And I agree. I guess that the Purdman has never played any other sport. Nor watched any other sport. One that is refereed.

The fact is that most athletes will fight for the point against the ref when they know they were wrong. It is just part of the game. The ref has his job to do and the player has his job to do and officiating is not part of the players job.

Jake

Well, I agree with Purdman on this issue and have played quite a bit of competitive basketball, baseball, football, softball, golf and tennis (even coached a high school team). That is beside the point though.

The simple fact here is that cheating is cheating. No amount of equivocation for whatever reason you or others care to cite is going to change that basic fact.

That cheating is accepted, excused and even defended is truly pathetic.

 

[cuedoctor]

after watching the video I can see what many would say is earl cheating but no one will know for sure but I think earl blows the 5 ball shot on purpose after realizing what he has just did and just wants out of there. It wasnt a hard shot and he just blast's it and it wasnt even close. With 16500 on the line he rattles the table! I'm sure most have gotten away with a small foul in there lives playing pool and I think earl had a brain fart and after he went over to his chair and thought about what just took place and how it looked to the crowd he just didnt want to win and really blow this up. What would have happen if he won!Boy,there would have been all sorts of problems but since he lost its like no harm done.

 

[nfty9er]

You did not comprehend

I think it was Bobby Jones in the US Open (golf) that lost by 1 stroke after he called a 2 stroke penalty on himself. Similarly I'm sure there are many other golfers that have done the same thing (myself included). I have called fouls in pool on myself and I will continue to do so. Maybe cheating is rewarded (I have seen people not call fouls on themselves and simply said the other person should of been watching more closely).

I am talking about officiated matches, like when someone is assigned to referee. Duh. Golfers and pool players players call fouls on themselves as an honest player would when not being watched. If a referee is assigned, it is his job and he cannot call what he does not see like in any sport.

 

[pharaoh68]

pharaoh68, I can appriciate your point of view, however I must agree to disagree on this one. If you cheat to get there, it don't count in my book. That goes for Barry Bonds and the rest of the dishonest players in any sport. Purdman
Dam, It has been pouring all day. I hope this isn't another 40 day, 40 nighter. I got to go dewinterize my boat!

Amen to that! Kick Bonds the hell out of baseball! ....Wow! When you think about it, the cimparisons one could draw between these two are startling:
They are both obnoxious and abbrasive.
They are both among the best to play the game.
They are both cheaters.
...and I'm sure we could keep going!

 

[Fleece3]

Amen to that! Kick Bonds the hell out of baseball!

I love all of the Bonds is a cheater talk. Do you know why Yankee Stadium is called "the house that Ruth built"? If you go to the stadium ( I have been there many times) you will notice that the right field wall is 314 feet, the shortest in baseball. It was built that way because that is where Ruth hit most of his blast to. It is literally a stadium built for Babe Ruth to hit home runs in. Which is why 73% of his home runs was hit there. Is that the Yankees Cheating?

Also, if this pitcher (I forget his name) talks, it is my understanding that A LOT of players will be named, and not just sluggers. A lot of pitchers are juicing, as well as skinny guys that just always get on base. Remember, juicing doesn't always make you big. It ONLY makes you big if you lift weights in ADDITION to juicing