Edwin - Jay - someone

Yes. As I said I'm for the refs and local staff. The organizers should answer for any violation in the contract of these people. But as I said earlier I was responding to a post re the payout to players.

I'm sure everyone to will be behind the little guys specially if they file a complaint individually or as a class.

If the little guys were not paid even during the qualifiers, they should have boycotted as well. Everyone would have rallied behind them. And we will still rally behind them for unanswered violations.

Their contract with the organizers will be the basis of any case plus damages. They will surely win and all of us will be behind them.

Its just that my post was in reference to player pay-outs. That's why I was also asking what a reasonable period is for the pay-out to be given or wired.
 
monski said:
Yes. As I said I'm for the refs and local staff. The organizers should answer for any violation in the contract of these people. But as I said earlier I was responding to a post re the payout to players.

I'm sure everyone to will be behind the little guys specially if they file a complaint individually or as a class.

If the little guys were not paid even during the qualifiers, they should have boycotted as well. Everyone would have rallied behind them. And we will still rally behind them for unanswered violations.

Their contract with the organizers will be the basis of any case plus damages. They will surely win and all of us will be behind them.

Its just that my post was in reference to player pay-outs. That's why I was also asking what a reasonable period is for the pay-out to be given or wired.
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The payout should be right AFTER the tournament. If they're trying to buy more time by wiring the
payouts to the players who were right in front of them in the first place, instead of issuing cashier's
check IF (big if) they really have the money to pay, then 2 days should do the trick for wire transfers.

It's been 5 days now and counting ...
 
So player pay-out right after the tournament? That's fine. But if the players agreed to a wire transfer within a particular time frame then it should be all right, correct? Specially if the players agreed to that.

That's why I was asking what is a reasonable time...

For example, how long did it take for Efren to get his winnings when he won the WPC?

Did Dennis wait for a wire transfer from the Qatar event? If so, how long did it take? The same can be asked of Alex Pagulayan and Ronnie Alcano.

The point of my asking was to establish a reasonable time that has been experienced and done in the past.

Whats the experience in the US Open? Or World Pool Masters? Or similar events?

If its the same day or 2 days after, then let the people who know share the information so we are all informed.
 
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Hear players were told that it takes 2 weeks to wire, so around oct 20 players should be getting paid. players had to fill form out with bank details
 
monski said:
So player pay-out right after the tournament? That's fine. But if the players agreed to a wire transfer within a particular time frame then it should be all right, correct? Specially if the players agreed to that.

That's why I was asking what is a reasonable time...

For example, how long did it take for Efren to get his winnings when he won the WPC?

Did Dennis wait for a wire transfer from the Qatar event? If so, how long did it take? The same can be asked of Alex Pagulayan and Ronnie Alcano.

The point of my asking was to establish a reasonable time that has been experienced and done in the past.

Whats the experience in the US Open? Or World Pool Masters? Or similar events?

If its the same day or 2 days after, then let the people who know share the information so we are all informed.
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From what has reached me, the promise is payment in 2 weeks. But, if you're familiar with how corporate sponsorship here goes then you'd be aware that the completion of payment, 30-50% at contract signing, usually takes 45-90 days. That is if they deem that, after they (corporate marketing dept.) check the media values that they received in exchange for their cash participation , their exposure during the event is adequate.

That is why my post about the search for a 20M loan (bridge loan). The prize money release was promised in 2 weeks time yet complete payment of sponsorship monies don't come in until 45-90 days after conclusion of the event. And that is if they're satisfied with the media values that they received.

Now with the complaints coming from referees, who rendered services, about not receiving payment immediately after the event which is the normal practice then it just tells us that the promoters have hit bottom of the piggy bank. What then will players be looking forward to next week?

Promoters here need quite a sizeable amount of capitalization to hold such an event. With the way they were bragging people will just trust such boast specially since they have done a couple of events of this magnitude. The problem is people aren't aware that Yen is in the red on those 2 events and he's trying to make up for that debacle with this WTBC. We were and I did post about it yet ...............

Now this requirement for a sizeable amount of capitalization just proves to show that their stabs at us about the WPC is all baloney. The only press release we had is about on-going negotiations and none about anything definite. We don't announce unless we have cash in hand to cover all expenses and since we only have 50% of what was needed to hold the WPC in November then we didn't commit to holding such. That's the reason why Matchroom announced a Jan 2009 holding of the WPC.
 
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Thanks. Assuming its from a first hand source then I guess we have some time to wait and see.

Can anybody share info (more or less) regarding the experience in other big tournaments like the US Open etc...?

Pardon my ignorance, all the discussion about pay-outs made me curious on how other organizers do it.
 
For example, how long did it take for Efren to get his winnings when he won the WPC?

Did Dennis wait for a wire transfer from the Qatar event? If so, how long did it take? The same can be asked of Alex Pagulayan and Ronnie Alcano.
When Efren won in Cardiff he was paid immediately after the tournament. All other players were paid as they lost their last match.

In Qatar Dennis was paid cash for his victory (I know because he bought me, the referees, Shane van Boening and a dozen other Filipinos dinner in the hotel).

Niels was given a bankers draft for runner up slot and they drove him to the bank to deposit it. All other players picked up cash from the Qatar Federation's on site Cashiers Office.

World 8 Ball Championship players in Fujairah picked up dollars at 7pm on the day they were eliminated.
 
WORD!!! Doug's the Man. Dennis and Ronnie did get paid immediately after they lost in Cardiff back in '03 but I have no idea for the higher payouts.
pro9dg said:
For example, how long did it take for Efren to get his winnings when he won the WPC?

Did Dennis wait for a wire transfer from the Qatar event? If so, how long did it take? The same can be asked of Alex Pagulayan and Ronnie Alcano.
When Efren won in Cardiff he was paid immediately after the tournament. All other players were paid as they lost their last match.

In Qatar Dennis was paid cash for his victory (I know because he bought me, the referees, Shane van Boening and a dozen other Filipinos dinner in the hotel).

Niels was given a bankers draft for runner up slot and they drove him to the bank to deposit it. All other players picked up cash from the Qatar Federation's on site Cashiers Office.

World 8 Ball Championship players in Fujairah picked up dollars at 7pm on the day they were eliminated.
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monski said:
How about the US Open?
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Why the need to ask this, are you doing a market study? Doug already gave answers to a number of major tournaments so the answer to your US Open question won't change your statistical study. Even if the US Open pays 2 weeks later then your average will still be less than 1 week.

Just don't include IPT because the outcome of your study will favor longer payout periods! LOL!!!
 
:) nothing wrong about being informed...

And yes. If you wanna do a statistical study, you don't want to include IPT to get averages... you can only consider it if you look at the mean using a large sample

just curious... for personal use & trivia etc
 
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Before the WTBC, all the signs pointed to a no show by Makabenta. Miraculously, he was able to proceed with the tournament proper in a very meager fashion. Though he had a magnificent venue, inside the venue was far from magnificence. Everything else was second rate. But the point is, Makabenta pulled through with the tournament proper (with the irritating effort from those who "upgraded" the event as a world class championship success).

With regards to the payments, yes, perhaps he might yet pull another miracle within two weeks, but if he has a bad credit standing, I doubt if he can avail of the bridge loan that Bandido had mentioned.

As I said in a previous post, Makabenta had nothing to lose even before the WTBC. That was based on lose talk in the local pool circles that he was heavily in debt because of the two WPCs.

His going all out in getting players to come over two weeks before WTB while he still did not have sponsors in his website was a suicidal business move. But he did not have anything to lose, so that was okay with him. Even abusing the players and using accreditation was part of the suicidal business plan. This was not okay with Bandido, Virginia Girl, a few others and me who came out in forums warning people that something was terribly wrong. Our warnings were called sabotage, and others were deceived that everything was in good order, as guaranteed by Ian Andersen in an official WPA statement.

Could Makabenta have counted his chicks before the eggs hatched? Has anything gone wrong with his last minute sponsor recruit? Word is that his sponsor is furious over being made to believe that it was another WPC that he was promoting, and that they were not told of the absence of the top Filipino players. But I do not know the veracity of that news.

It would be a pity if he will not be able to pay up because people who do not pay are scums in reality, no matter how they prop themselves up in public. To have to practically beg for what is rightfully yours is beyond dignity; and to be able to live with not paying people what is rightfully theirs is just indescribable.

"I have no patience with this nonsense. The joy of sports inheres in competition. And the more players and countries competing the better. Sports is not show business or make-believe." - Makabenta in his last AZ column. He forgot to mention the joy of getting paid, as he is so used to writing only from his "I" perspective.

Roy, maybe you can offer a wager again if Makabenta can pay up EVERYBODY within two weeks.
 
monski said:
:) nothing wrong about being informed...

And yes. If you wanna do a statistical study, you don't want to include IPT to get averages... you can only consider it if you look at the mean using a large sample

just curious... for personal use & trivia etc
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hehe, ok lang Monski..ikaw pa.:smile:
 
*bump*

Did anyone get paid? I've been keeping an eye on this thread. Seems REALLY fishy to me. I don't buy the wiring story because "that's what other sports do."

Other sports tours are multi-million dollar ventures so there are huge tax liabilities, etc. One pool tournament is very insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Sounds to me someone is scrambling to come up with cash quick before the word's out.
 
I don't know how Johnny Archer got paid.

I personally know of two players that had a real problem with their hotel bill because of a failed credit card which was not their fault.

The hotel agreed that if the organisers of the tournament would guarantee payment they would release the players the following morning (Sunday) so that they could return home.

These two guys went "cap in hand" to the organisers to ask for their help.
They were due $5000 from the prize fund.

Their plea was refused and the hotel later confirmed that they had asked the organisers to guarantee payment with either cash or a credit card and they were told it couldn't be done.

At the eleventh hour, literally at 10 pm on the Saturday a second credit card which had been sent urgently from their country, was approved and the players left the hotel at 7 am on Sunday morning.

In my organisation, players are paid after they lose and the winner after he wins.

That's how it should be.
 
Usually at this time, Yen/Raya (specially the former) would be tooting their horns for everyone to hear
after a "successful" event that they just held. Not a pip after almost 6 days, do I hear crickets chirping?
 
Hurting the sport of billiards...

I stumbled upon this article, which I'm sharing with you...

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=sports6_oct7_2008


Hurting the sport of billiards
by Ronnie Nathanielsz

WE have consciously sought to stay away from the debilitating quarrel between two factors in Philippine pool, that at times has degenerated into a level of arrogance and meanness that cannot but hurt the sport and distress the millions of Filipinos, who support the sport in its various formats.

That?s because close friends of many summers are positioned on either side and if we have any interest at all, it?s in trying to bring the two factions together in the interest of the sport, the many fine players that the country has bred and a public that should never be deprived of seeing the very best represent the Philippines.

This should be the underlying principle, whether it be in regional competitions such as the Southeast Asian Games and Asian Games or pro tournaments like the Guinness 9-Ball Tour, the World Pool Championships and the recent World 10-Ball Championships.

However, while in Cebu to cover two excellent boxing promotions back-to-back in Talisay and Naga City, we read a Standard Today story quoting World Pool Association president Ian Anderson who, when asked about the absence of pool legends Efren ?Bata? Reyes, Django Bustamante, former World Pool Champions Ronnie Alcano and Alex Pagulayan and reigning world no. 1 Dennis Orcollo, replied that the quality of play will not diminish and that they are not the only top world players. He went on to state that the absence of Reyes, Bustamante and Pagulayan ?won?t matter in the event.?

If Anderson dared watch television, he would have realized that their absence did matter because the crowds were sparse to say that least, so much so that at one point, Ted Lerner had to seat the few fans behind him and ask them to make a much noise as possible.

Besides, for Anderson to downgrade the likes of Reyes, who is acknowledged as the greatest pool player of all time and a Time magazine awardee is an affront to all of us, who have thrilled at the exploits of The Magician and others and enjoyed their demeanor both at the table and away from it. The flag-waving overseas workers, who crowned venues in the Middle East and Europe, whenever Reyes and his buddies play is a testament to their admiration for the quality of their game and affection for such simple, down-to-earth individuals, who are a tribute to our country.

Of course, Anderson had to probably say that he said because the WPA earns a percentage of the prize money as sanction fees and he knows, at least for the present, where his bread is buttered.

To stage a $400,000 tournament in Manila amid the absence of the superstars of Philippine pool was like giving good money away to the foreign players without a decent fight with the notable exception of Demosthenes Pulpul.

It becomes even more questionable when the major sponsors were government owned or controlled entities such as Pagcor and the Department of Tourism, who skimp in support of our national sports programs, but somehow found the funds to support this tournament, which did nothing to enhance the reputation of the Philippines being the epicenter of pool. That honor was deservedly earned as a result of the tremendously successful World Pool Championships, staged by Raya Sports, headed by Yen Makabenta in 2006 and 2007 when our best players completed, with Ronnie Alcano being crowned champion in 2006 and Roberto Gomez finishing runner-up in 2007.

The crowds were there in full force, particularly at the PICC in 2006, while nowhere near those numbers showed up at the 10-Ball Event.

If government supports such events with substantial funding, it is incumbent on those responsible to find out, who is playing and whether we can get the kind of exposure that justifies the investment. Beyond that, if government considered it an investment, then rather than follow the example of GSIS president Winston Garcia, who refuses to provide details of foreign investments with the money of its members claiming confidentiality, they need to release information because the public has a right to know.
 
The public does have the right to know. Players and all people hired for the event need to get paid. And of course, everyone wanted to root for the top local players... win or lose. Though the field was deep and we can't take anything away from the champ, we wanted to see our idols play for us.
 
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