Efren or Allison?
- Thread starter Renegade
- Start date
With all due respect, if Allison had a designated breaker, take Bustamante for instance, I would back Allison in a heartbeat. Shit, I might even drive to NY to place my bet (just kidding, maybe to NC).
She doesn't stand a chance. Efren gave a very good California player, Jerry Brunsetter, the 5 ball and the breaks and beat him. Jerry is easily Allison's speed.
Why? Let's face it. Efren has a girly-man break. As does Jose Parica, who claims to have beaten Efren more times for the money (Billiards Digest Magazine).
Parica is imbelishing. Besides, Allison ain't Parica.
I have been meaning to ask this question for a long time, but does anyone know how many racks Efren has strung together at 9 ball (and these probably had to have been in his youth when he had some kind of muscles tone)? Sure, he is the best all around player on the planet. However, if Archer is playing well and breaking well, he is going to wipe Efren off of the face of the planet, at least in today's times at 9 ball.
Efren ran 9 racks on Bustamante at WPC 2000.
Last time I saw Efren play Johnny was at the Bike last January. Johnny was breaking well on those loose Metro table. Efren still clocked him.
Efren's 9-ball game now is not quite the level it was in the mid 90's.
But, I bet he can still give Allison the 7-out.
She doesn't stand a chance. Efren gave a very good California player, Jerry Brunsetter, the 5 ball and the breaks and beat him. Jerry is easily Allison's speed.
Why? Let's face it. Efren has a girly-man break. As does Jose Parica, who claims to have beaten Efren more times for the money (Billiards Digest Magazine).
Parica is imbelishing. Besides, Allison ain't Parica.
I have been meaning to ask this question for a long time, but does anyone know how many racks Efren has strung together at 9 ball (and these probably had to have been in his youth when he had some kind of muscles tone)? Sure, he is the best all around player on the planet. However, if Archer is playing well and breaking well, he is going to wipe Efren off of the face of the planet, at least in today's times at 9 ball.
Efren ran 9 racks on Bustamante at WPC 2000.
Last time I saw Efren play Johnny was at the Bike last January. Johnny was breaking well on those loose Metro table. Efren still clocked him.
Efren's 9-ball game now is not quite the level it was in the mid 90's.
But, I bet he can still give Allison the 7-out.
8 racks times 3
If I am not mistaken the largest payday to date tournament in Japan a few years ago, Efren ran 8 racks in 3 different matches, ultimately winning that tournament. $160,000!
In my opinion, Efren can do anything. I have seen him!
The original question of Allison vs. Efren, is a comparing apples to Dynamite!
If I am not mistaken the largest payday to date tournament in Japan a few years ago, Efren ran 8 racks in 3 different matches, ultimately winning that tournament. $160,000!
In my opinion, Efren can do anything. I have seen him!
The original question of Allison vs. Efren, is a comparing apples to Dynamite!
No Alison would not miss against Efren. How can you miss from sitting in the chair for most of the match as Jimmy Wetch and Mika did at the DCC. Neither would she miss if every time she got up she was hooked, frozen to a ball, or racking.
I never said women couldnt run racks but it seems such a common place amongst male pro's. The women like to put down the men's tour but they cannot compare when it comes to the excellence and quality play in a mens tourney.
One night at a UPA tournament in Los Angeles I had the pleasure of watching Alex P beat Efren running 6 racks on him. Efren met him on the one loss side and returned the favor by running 8 racks on Alex. This is beauty. Like Tiger birdying the last 6 holes for a come from behind win. Efren is the Master and still is. A one of a kind. To compare him to anyone else is not fair to the game. His patterns and his technique is unique in itself.
When Efren was in town we used to run to Hard Times just to watch him practice. He would toss 15 balls on the table and run 4 or 5 racks in a row. He did this like he was drinking water. A thing of beauty.
I never said women couldnt run racks but it seems such a common place amongst male pro's. The women like to put down the men's tour but they cannot compare when it comes to the excellence and quality play in a mens tourney.
One night at a UPA tournament in Los Angeles I had the pleasure of watching Alex P beat Efren running 6 racks on him. Efren met him on the one loss side and returned the favor by running 8 racks on Alex. This is beauty. Like Tiger birdying the last 6 holes for a come from behind win. Efren is the Master and still is. A one of a kind. To compare him to anyone else is not fair to the game. His patterns and his technique is unique in itself.
When Efren was in town we used to run to Hard Times just to watch him practice. He would toss 15 balls on the table and run 4 or 5 racks in a row. He did this like he was drinking water. A thing of beauty.
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
So wouldn't she miss there?yobagua said:
Fred Agnir said:
You would have to go much lower than 150 to find a male tennis pro Venus or Serena could beat. Much lower. Riggs was an old man and had beaten Margaret Court as a decrepit old man. If we could get an on the square match up of #150 vs. Serena or Venus or any other woman you wanted in the top 3, you would have all the action you wanted. Because people would line up to bet you all they could get their hands on. It won't happen and is moot, but the betting lines in las vegas would have the over/under of games won for serena or venus at 1 or 2. 6-0 6-0 is the probable result. Compared to the men, the women are very slow and hit the ball very softly. The difference between Serena and 150 is much greater than Allison - Efren. And allison wouldn't win that, to return to the topic of the thread.
catscradle said:
agreed 100%. I saw part of the Grady / Allison tour in Lancaster, Pa. It was fairly entertaining and Allsion did win that night but it seemed like a show more than a match. I think we can get a good comparison by seeing what Karen Corr does when she plays the Joss Tour stops. Competitive to say the least but certainly no Reyes, Strickland, Archer. I applaud Karen Corr for going out there with the guys.
I just wish someone would sponsor this event, like when samsung bankrolled the efren-jeanette exhibition match. i'm sure they'd make a killing out of ticket sales alone. then there's advertising money. i think efren would gladly play in this, although i'm not sure if allison would. can't see why not, though. she has nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Fred Agnir said:
As someone who has played Efren more than once, and who has seen him play many times in person (not just in tournaments), I have to agree. The only way Efren's break is 'weak' is if you compare it to the top men pros with the top breaks. Efren breaks much, much better than Allison, and he does everything else better as well, with the possible exception of accuracy on pocketing balls generally, where Allison might be close. If they played for the dough it would be a joke in the long run. Having said all that, I have tremendous respect for Allison's game, and I tend to think that she is in Jean Balukas's category of great players.
It is a foolish waste that Loree Jon Jones is playing Sigel for the big cash in the IPT challenge match. She does not even play anymore and is hardly as well known as she used to be. Now Sigel vs Fisher, a man who quit quite a long time ago vs the number one womens player of the moment, that would garner alot of interest and debate. Sigel would drill her, but I am sure there are alot of people who are argueing on this thread that would like to lose money thinking otherwise.
yobagua said:
Allison ran 7 racks in row in the NJ State Championships and I watched her do it, and I watched Jeanette run 5 in a row against Allison on TV a few seasons back. The entire match was only 2 innings. Jeanette broke, ran 5 racks, 6th rack broke had no shot on the one, played safe) Allison missed kick, Jeanette ran out 1 inning, Broke, again no shot, played safe, Allison missed again 2 innings, Jeanette ran out, wins 7-0! (I watched it a few times, it was the semis of the Nationals I believe and there was a thread about it on the CCB board)
I also know Karen beat Mika straight up in a Joss event after being down 1-6...I think you guys highly underestimate the top women.
I am not saying they are better but Efren giving Allison the 6 and out? That is ridiculous.
Pete said:As a note, Jenn Barreta, said that in the top 16 or so, they would only be ranked 6s & 7s in the APA.
I'm in the APA, and have played with many 6s & 7s, they can't compete at the world class level period.
Pete
You are really taking that comment out of context, she was asked
what would the women playing in the WPBA be ranked if they played in the APA? I do not beleive the question was about the top 16, but about the overall players on the pro tour. She was not making a blanket statement. She was also referring to APA 8 Ball handicap's not 9Ball, and a 7 can be anything...Allison would be a 7 and guess what, so would Efren. This is as high as you can be, duh!
She was also giving a range to the lower end of the spectrum, there are a few women on the WPBA that might be 6's but not many at this point...
Jenn herself played APA and was never higher than a 6 (I know this because she was on my team) I have no doubt that would no longer be the case if she played in it now...she would easily be a 7, as would Mika, Thorsten, Corey and all the other male pros, if you were to ask her the question "What would the male pros be rated if they played APA 8 Ball?"
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Celtic said:
it's not for the big cash the pot is almost equal if it were for all the cash I think sigal would run her out of town , it' would have been better if it were allison that he would play and make it more interesting and have a winner take all that would be something to talk about IMO allison still wouldn't win either IMO
Steven
cuechick said:
To do you response to my post justis (spelling), I copied this from Jenn.
Hey LS77,
We never had an APA 9 ball league in NY so it was 8 ball. The skill levels went from a 2 (which only a woman could be) up to a 7. In my estimation most pros in the top 16 would be a 6 or a 7 depending on their 8 ball prowess.
Nippon & VA,
This is the one drawback to any handicapped league, and why I don't really enjoy playing in them. You invariably have people who sandbag and never get raised and then you have others who have a career match and get punished for it. It's usually the sandbaggers who complain the loudest about everyone else, too.
Jenn
I may have not understood her post. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Pete
cuechick said:
he gives cliff joyner a ball or two in 1hole............that sounds ridiculous too.........
VAP
vapoolplayer said:
For him to give Allison the 6 and out, he could never, ever, ever miss. And as much as I love Efren (I named my Cat after him for pete's sake!) he does miss. I have seen him miss ball in hand even! No one is perfect and I just think because Allison has no interest or any real reason to compete against men in 9 Ball it is easy to underestimate her incredible level of skill.
Y'all forget she played and beat many top snooker pros and I know in the one Tommy Kennedy event she played in, she won.
She is a master of technique and if she ever did play anyone with that spot, I'd scrap up all the money I could and put it right on the Duchess. I do not think there is a player out there that could give her that spot.