Efren or Allison?

[JoeyInCali]

She is a master of technique and if she ever did play anyone with that spot, I'd scrap up all the money I could and put it right on the Duchess. I do not think there is a player out there that could give her that spot.

I think Corey Deuel would be an easy even money giving Allison that spot if he's on his game. Same Hohmann or Pagulayan.
In the mid 90's, Efren was giving local shortstops the orange crush around here.
He just didn't miss that much then.

 

[cuechick]

I think Corey Deuel would be an easy even money giving Allison that spot if he's on his game. Same Hohmann or Pagulayan.
In the mid 90's, Efren was giving local shortstops the orange crush around here.
He just didn't miss that much then.

A shortstop? Isn't that between a B and an A? Allison is much stronger than that, you guys just really don't know do you? As I said, I watched Allison shoot a 7 pack, what difference would it make who was sitting in the chair? How many shortstops can do that... have you ever really watched her play. I mean really?

 

[vapoolplayer]

I think you guys highly underestimate the top women.

.

i could be wrong here.......but i believe i noticed that someone in the top 16 on the WPBA has a "B" player rating in the tri state tour.........

i don't think anyone is underestimating.

VAP

 

[vapoolplayer]

A shortstop? Isn't that between a B and an A? Allison is much stronger than that, you guys just really don't know do you? As I said, I watched Allison shoot a 7 pack, what difference would it make who was sitting in the chair? How many shortstops can do that... have you ever really watched her play. I mean really?

no, a shortstop is between an A+ and a pro/open level player. as far as men go anyway.

VAP

 

[JoeyInCali]

A shortstop? Isn't that between a B and an A? Allison is much stronger than that, you guys just really don't know do you? As I said, I watched Allison shoot a 7 pack, what difference would it make who was sitting in the chair? How many shortstops can do that... have you ever really watched her play. I mean really?

But, she was offered the 6-out a few years back by Efren's backer and she turned it down.
This was after she lost big ones to a road player getting a spot.
Coltrain gave her the 7-ball and robbed her too, supposedly.
Jennifer Chen got the 6-out from Santos and got robbed.
Santos is not quite Corey and Jennifer is not quite Allison but you can see the disparity is huge between a top 20 female and a top 100 ( maybe ) Sambajon.

 

[cuechick]

But, she was offered the 6-out a few years back by Efren's backer and she turned it down.
This was after she lost big ones to a road player getting a spot.

Where did you get this stuff? According to who? As far as I know Allison doesn't gamble, she has sponsorship deals to consider and no reason to do it, I have photographed her a few times and spent a lot of time with her. I asked her about gambling and she told me it was not her thing, she is a tournament player and it was not the kind of image she wanted to have. So I seriously doubt there is any truth to these rumors...and if she was offered this game with Efren her reasons for turning it down may have had nothing to do with concern about the outcome.

 

[vapoolplayer]

I bought a tape and watched Johnny Archer clean Efren's clock. And from reading all of the posters below, I see where Efren never ran over 10 racks in a row. WHY? BECAUSE HE HAS A GIRLY-MAN BREAK.

i've also seen efren clean johnny's clock.

also.......how many people with a GREAT break have run 10 in a row???? not very many..........

VAP

 

[cuechick]

i could be wrong here.......but i believe i noticed that someone in the top 16 on the WPBA has a "B" player rating in the tri state tour.........

i don't think anyone is underestimating.

VAP

When I am talking about the top, I mean just that, there is HUGE difference between 1 and 16, in any sport.
Let me be specific; Alison, Karen, Jeanette, Ga Young, Monica and Helena.
The last two I have personally seen play a lot of the top men in the South East and win...

 

[JoeyInCali]

So I seriously doubt there is any truth to these rumors...and if she was offered this game with Efren her reasons for turning it down may have had nothing to do with concern about the outcome.
She did back in 97-98.
Some peeps here can vouch for it as well.
Santos and Jennifer hooked-up at HT, Bellflower.

WW, Efren has not run 10 racks of 9-ball but has run 9 racks against Busta at the 2000 WPC. Busta was ahead 3-1 and scratched on the break. The next time he got on the table, he was down 10-3.
Efren has run 5 racks of 15-ball rotation according to him.

 

[nibrobus]

Hi all I'm new here

Even if Efren does have what is considered a weak break, it's still stronger than Allison's and he'll be able to get out more often. If he breaks soft and the balls are tied up he'll be able to deal with the clusters/traffic better. He did run 9 racks on Francisco in the WPC and 8 on Ralf Souquet (same tournament I think).

P.S.
Hey JoeyinCali - I watched Efren at Hardtimes Bellflower throw out all 15 balls and run out the first ten in rotation before I realized he was doing it left-handed (he ran out the rest right handed).

 

[Celtic]

You guys are getting off my original path. What I was trying to say was that if Allison had a designated breaker, and because Efren can't break worth a shit IMHO, Allison would be favoried to win.

You and the rest of the forum visualize Allison with her tiny tiny break getting tied up all the time and not looking so impressive. Can anyone (except maybe Cue_Chick - I hear your wheels turning) imagine Allison playing 9 ball with only 6 balls left on the table all the time after a big bang break? I could see Allison running 10 racks in a row easily and poor little old Efren sitting in the chair most of the night.

I have an idea, why dont you put your money where your mouth is? We have Cuechick willing to put her life savings on the side of the Duchess, Whitewolf sure that Allison would dominate to the tune of what, $10,000? And we have about 40 people that are itching to throw cash onto Efren's side. How much money are we talking about Cuechick, can you manage $20,000? Because I am sure there is $30,000 worth of action for you two and that just may be enough to make the match happen, hell if we do it against Cory then they will tape it and we can all watch the Duchess proving what 95% of us already know.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Because I am sure there is $30,000 worth of action for you two .

I think if this were to happen........there would be quite a bit more than 30 dimes worth of action.

VAP

 

[Pete]

You are really taking that comment out of context, she was asked
what would the women playing in the WPBA be ranked if they played in the APA? I do not beleive the question was about the top 16, but about the overall players on the pro tour. She was not making a blanket statement. She was also referring to APA 8 Ball handicap's not 9Ball, and a 7 can be anything...Allison would be a 7 and guess what, so would Efren. This is as high as you can be, duh!
She was also giving a range to the lower end of the spectrum, there are a few women on the WPBA that might be 6's but not many at this point...

Jenn herself played APA and was never higher than a 6 (I know this because she was on my team) I have no doubt that would no longer be the case if she played in it now...she would easily be a 7, as would Mika, Thorsten, Corey and all the other male pros, if you were to ask her the question "What would the male pros be rated if they played APA 8 Ball?"

Hey LS77,

We never had an APA 9 ball league in NY so it was 8 ball. The skill levels went from a 2 (which only a woman could be) up to a 7. In my estimation most pros in the top 16 would be a 6 or a 7 depending on their 8 ball prowess.

Nippon & VA,

This is the one drawback to any handicapped league, and why I don't really enjoy playing in them. You invariably have people who sandbag and never get raised and then you have others who have a career match and get punished for it. It's usually the sandbaggers who complain the loudest about everyone else, too.

Jenn


I've thought about it, and I'm sorry but what I read,

" We never had an APA 9 ball league in NY so it was 8 ball. The skill levels went from a 2 (which only a woman could be) up to a 7. In my estimation most pros in the top 16 would be a 6 or a 7 depending on their 8 ball prowess."

So she said in her estimation (not that she is right, it's an opinion), The Top 16 Would Be 6 and 7. Now yes it only goes up to 7, so lets say that at least some of these "Top 16" female pros are 6.
So I would like you to show me any male pro player that's a 6 (and I don't mean someone who pays the entrée fee and loses, I mean the top consistent 16 finishers in the Non Handicapped open pro tournaments).

Now I wasn't trying to start a men are better then women thing, I was just adding what I read from a top pro (in the "Top 16" I think). And I do think that the women should be able to compete with the men, on even ground.

But until more women are willing to take the same bumps that the men do in the regional tours, like KarrenCorr, and Julie Kelly, I don't think it will happen.

Once again I'm sorry if I offend anyone, and I'm sure Cuechick and many many other weaker (under the pro level) female players could give me the orange crush and beat me all day and night without even trying, for I've just started playing a couple of years ago (3). So I don't want to hear that I need to prove myself. I'm just repling w/ my opinoin (and I might very well be wrong).

Pete

 

[Ken_4fun]

Put me in for 10K

I'm in for 10K.

I will own Allison.

Ken

 

[Jimmy M.]

You guys are getting off my original path. What I was trying to say was that if Allison had a designated breaker, and because Efren can't break worth a shit IMHO

I don't even know you, but I'm pretty confident when I say that I'm sure he breaks better than you. Yes, in the 80's and part of the 90's his break was pretty weak for a player of his caliber, but that has changed. He doesn't do all of the jumping around theatrics of some of the "big breakers", but the guy has a solid break. Have you, by any chance, watched any of his 9-ball matches from the last 2 DCC's? You're only seeing what you want to see to support your beliefs if you have honestly seen the guy break in recent years and still think "he can't break worth a shit". You should play him some next time he's in a town near you. He gives up a lot of weight, and he'll even play fairly cheap. I see him playing locals at Hard Times for $100/set some times. I think you'll come away from the game with a different outlook on his break.

 

[CHIEF1]

Hi all I'm new here

Even if Efren does have what is considered a weak break, it's still stronger than Allison's and he'll be able to get out more often. If he breaks soft and the balls are tied up he'll be able to deal with the clusters/traffic better. He did run 9 racks on Francisco in the WPC and 8 on Ralf Souquet (same tournament I think).

P.S.
Hey JoeyinCali - I watched Efren at Hardtimes Bellflower throw out all 15 balls and run out the first ten in rotation before I realized he was doing it left-handed (he ran out the rest right handed).

I used to play at HT and was there 1 night Efren played a local Mexican A player,he spotted him the 8 and shot left handed for 500$ races to 7.Efren was running out or playing crazy safes lefty.It was rediculous

 

[cuechick]

Now I wasn't trying to start a men are better then women thing, I was just adding what I read from a top pro (in the "Top 16" I think). And I do think that the women should be able to compete with the men, on even ground.

I was wrong about Jenn talking about the top 16 and have to say I strongly disagree that any of those women could be a 6in the APA. I think she may have been looking at her own experiance (based on an extremely tough NYC league) and who was in the top 16 at the time.
I am an APA 7 and I do not think I play better than any of the top 16, I might give a few a run for their money though.
I still believe you presented her reply as a statement out of context but I do not think you intended to do that.

 

[cuechick]

How much money are we talking about Cuechick, can you manage $20,000?

Are you crazy? I am a poor struggling artist/poolplayer...I would put up a grand which is more than I have ever bet on anything...and I do not care swho she plays, there is no one alive that can give her the 6 and out.

 

[cuechick]

But until more women are willing to take the same bumps that the men do in the regional tours, like KarrenCorr, and Julie Kelly, I don't think it will happen.

Pete

Okay Pete, I just re-read this part, and have to say WTF are you talking about? Men do not have any regional tours? If a man wants to play in a pro event all he has to do is pay his entry and he is in. ALL WOMEN who play in the WPBA have taken their share of bumps on regional tours cause that is the only way to get there.
I am the verteran of three tours myself and have driven hundreds of miles, stayed in seedy motels and eaten crappy food, only to draw Kim Shaw or Julie Kelly in the first round get to the hill and loose...are those enough bumps for you?
I am really not sure most people have any idea what it takes to play this game, which in the end offers little back. You do it for the passion and nothing else.

 

[Snapshot9]

First off

The APA is no measure how good a player is. I was an APA 7 years
ago. The BCA advanced league would be the best measure
of a player's skill via league.

Just because a woman can run 6,7, or 8 balls with regularity
does not mean they are world class among all players, men and
women. It's what they do when the 'run' isn't there, and quite
frankly, men players make better decisions and shots then
the women do. They do not bank, kick, or play safeties to
the level that men pros do.

I play the BCA National women's champion from last year, and
she will not play me without the break and the 7.