sjm said:
by my count, (according to the WPBA website history, along with the year's wins. some may not be points events, but are listed in the WPBA history)
allison has won 48 tournaments, thats a little bit off from the supposed "over 70".
VAP
Efren or Allison?
- Thread starter Renegade
- Start date
by my count, (according to the WPBA website history, along with the year's wins. some may not be points events, but are listed in the WPBA history)
allison has won 48 tournaments, thats a little bit off from the supposed "over 70".
VAP
vapoolplayer said:
Thank, Va. Guess I could have done the legwork myself if WPBA.com had occurred to me. WPBA.com tends to list both the WPA World championships and the Torunament of Champions (aka Challenge of Champions). Neither is a WPBA event. In calculating your 48 number, did you omit these?
sjm said:
If they are listed there, I DID NOT omit them. I just looked at the right side where it had the winner's names. I didn't even look at the event.
that being said, she probably is closer to the 40 mark than the 50 mark when it comes to actual WPBA events.
VAP
APA7 said:After all, she is an APA 7
My guess is she's around an C or C+ player.
Eric
Yes I am an APA 7 Eric...I am not only a 7, but I was the only female 7 to Qualify for the APA singels last April.
As far as Allison's record, I should have said career wins, it was a statistic I heard the last time I saw her play on ESPN so let me be more specific...
Allison has won 90% of the 450+ matches played in her 8-year pro 9-Ball career.
#1 ranked WPBA points leader and purse winner for 5 consecutive years.
All-time tournament purse leader in WPBA history.
Voted by Billiard's Digest and Pool & Billiard Magazine as Player of the Year for 5 consecutive years.
Has had more ESPN televised tournament match appearances and match wins than any other player (male or female) in history.
Has finished in the top 5 in all but 3 of the 80+ pro events she's played in.
Record setting 8 consecutive tournament wins in 1996 and 1997.
Won 72% of all tournaments entered in 1998.
Won $65,000.00 in January 1998, the largest purse in cue sports history and the title of "ESPN Ultimate 9-Ball Champion."
In 1999, she defended her title at the ESPN Ultimate Challenge and pocketed another $65,000.00.
Won all three events of the 1999 Triple Crown: the U.S. Open, BCA Open, and WPBA National Championship.
In 2000, she added a U.S. Open Straight Pool title to her credentials.
Finished 1st or 2nd in a streak of 20+ consecutive pro events spanning from 1998 to 2000.
7 WPBA National Championships and U.S. Open Titles
Aslo regarding the defintition of a short stop, I asked a very respected local player named Jim Jennings today, and he said "Just a little below an A"...He was adament and I think it is just possible that the term has been dsitorted in different regions over the years?
I also discussed this thread and asked if he thought Ally could beat Efren with that spot, and he said absolutly but only if she had the breaks or had a designated breaker. I respect Jim a lot and he went into much more detail about handicapping at that level, I now have a better understanding and think he may be right...and he has great respect for Allison and has seen her beat some very strong players.
It's just interesting to me that so many here think it is just cut and dry and then start passing judgement on me, my skill level and making personal attacks. I don't care, I just don't see what it has to do with the debate at hand...
Just the breaks as the spot?whitewolf said:
Ally would be sweating and get robbed.
Efren gave Marshall Jung the 6-out and the breaks and beat him on one session. Marshall won the second one.
Marshall Jung might qualify as a shortstop. He can shoot.
cuechick said:
If the sigel vs jones was successful, maybe we will have an allison vs Efren match?
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whitewolf said:
I don't believe I was laughing...(I even threw in a "with all due respect)
The "fact" is in the origonal post it was asking about a Allison / Efren matchup...(said nothing about a designated breaker)
Since you are propositioning a "desegnated breaker" that must mean you also agree that Allison has very little chance of winning a set against Efren.
Now even with your added "equalizer" for Allison, I still think that only evens the break part of the game...She is still behind on paper in every other area of the game...the only part of the game she comes close is the ball pocketing.
I will give you this....Allison has a better shot at beating Efren than any other woman in the world right now....and if she did compete on a regular basis in Men's events, I would say she has a real good shot at becoming on of the top 100 in the world....and I hope that someday I am able to play as good as her......but she has no shot of beating Efren in any long race of 9-ball
I won't even bother discussing 8-ball / straight pool / one pocket, because even she admits she never really plays those games...(she is just a 9-ball girl)
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Sweet Marissa said:
I guess thats why in her day Jean Balukas beat Mizerak three straight 9-ball tournaments in a row? Must not have been strong enough...
or could she have eaten just enough wheaties to beat a WORLD CHAMPION? I'm not picking at you, believe me...I'm just tired of hearing who can/who should/who cant. Post up, lag and prove yourself. Melissa Herdon plays mens events as does Karen Corr, Julie Kelly and a host of others. I guess Karen winning on the Joss tour is a fluke too?
F
Fred Agnir
Guest
cuechick said:
A lot of us see it as "cut and dry" because a lot of us share the same feelings as Mr. Jennings.
Fred
cuechick said:
CC,
I'll tell you that Allison's chances would be GREATLY improved if she had Jim Jennings as her designated breaker. I've observed him play the last 2 years at DCC, and I say he has one of the top 5 breaks I've ever seen - I really enjoyed watching him play. I suspect no one wants to arm wrestle him.
cuechick said:
You know what, alot of people have forgoten your first post I think. All I was saying is that I didn't think they were in the same league, and it seems you may not word it that way but pretty much agree that Efren (do to skill and knowledge, not being a man) is better, and why not he really is a head of all the others. The only thing youv'e been doing is protecting Allison's honor (and I think that's great). Allison has done more for th WPBA than any of the other women (just look at how well they didn't play before her) to bring the skill of the game up.
And I do think that alot of the people think that of Efren, and take offense that anyone would question him as being the best all around player.
I wish you the very best CueChick, and hope I get to meet you some day, your passion for the game is insperational.
Pete
"In 2000, she added a U.S. Open Straight Pool title to her credentials"
I was there in NY for this tournament. Allison had the high run in the 60's. Far out running the rest of the women. Efren came in 3rd. He had a high run of 132 I believe. Those who watched this tournament would know that Efren made unbelievable shots to make high runs. Alison might be a good shot maker when it comes to the classical style of playing. Connect the dots type of run. But inorder to run racks in 9 ball and straight pool you will have to play unorthodox shots, or get lucky, or just playing safe. Efren has said many times "I GOT LUCKY". And when he made complex shots, banks, and kicks he did. They went in but he attempted it.
For example one break shot he used against Dallas West was a bank cross side with the rock going 3 rails smashing into the stack. Mr West just stood there with his jaw dropping turning to the audience and wondering who he was up against. Efren was not playing by pools classical rules. He banked and kicked in shots and stuck you frozen to the rack or between 2 balls many times getting out this same kind of traps with masse and throw.
I have great respect for Alison and her technique but Efren is in a class by himself. Time and time again he has proved it by beating some of the toughest in the world. With a technique that is unique to his persona. The kind that Mizerak used to have when he came on the scene. How Steve utilized follow while breaking through the stack was beautiful. Everyone can learn follow english but the way Mizerak used it was one of its kind. Efren has taken the game higher with a much more expansive technique. Wether you can digest that cup of tea is on you.
I was there in NY for this tournament. Allison had the high run in the 60's. Far out running the rest of the women. Efren came in 3rd. He had a high run of 132 I believe. Those who watched this tournament would know that Efren made unbelievable shots to make high runs. Alison might be a good shot maker when it comes to the classical style of playing. Connect the dots type of run. But inorder to run racks in 9 ball and straight pool you will have to play unorthodox shots, or get lucky, or just playing safe. Efren has said many times "I GOT LUCKY". And when he made complex shots, banks, and kicks he did. They went in but he attempted it.
For example one break shot he used against Dallas West was a bank cross side with the rock going 3 rails smashing into the stack. Mr West just stood there with his jaw dropping turning to the audience and wondering who he was up against. Efren was not playing by pools classical rules. He banked and kicked in shots and stuck you frozen to the rack or between 2 balls many times getting out this same kind of traps with masse and throw.
I have great respect for Alison and her technique but Efren is in a class by himself. Time and time again he has proved it by beating some of the toughest in the world. With a technique that is unique to his persona. The kind that Mizerak used to have when he came on the scene. How Steve utilized follow while breaking through the stack was beautiful. Everyone can learn follow english but the way Mizerak used it was one of its kind. Efren has taken the game higher with a much more expansive technique. Wether you can digest that cup of tea is on you.
Tourney play doesn't compare to high-stakes gambling in my opinion.Koop said:
I don't know if John Schmidt has ever won a Joss Tour event but, I'd put money on him to give Karen the 7-ball.
JoeyInCali said:
It sure doesn't. To win a tournament you have to beat champion after champion, not just show the capacity to adjust to and exploit the playing style of a single foe. Karen has shown the ability to knock off champion after champion, Schmidt has come up short in this regard.
These points aside, though, I suspect it's anybody's game with the seven.
yobagua said:
I just have to add one thing to that, as I too was there, this was the first time Allison had ever played straight pool. Making her win even more impressive.
And fyi, I agree Efren is an amazing player, I am not sure if I made this clear but he is my favorite player...as I mentioned before, my cat is named after him....yes he only has one eye but he is all heart.
Efren Reyes