The right hand english was to carry the cue ball around naturally 3 rails to the center of the table to shoot the 3 in the side. Needed english because he had to play the location of the three with the speed of the hit and still get the cue ball around 3 rails to shoot it in the side. If he wanted to throw it more he could have just hit more to the left side of the 3 and still made the 6 ball, but the cue ball would not have traveled far enough and the 3 might have stuck on the side rail. He was attempting to control the location of the 3, and get the cue ball around to have position.
Efren's 3 way shot!!
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Actually, now I'm not sure if I meant what I just said. Looking at the video a fourth and fifth time, and observing only his body language before and after the shot, I think there's a possibility that he was intending of potting the 5.jsp said:I think one thing is certain is that he wasn't intending to pot the 5, but who the heck knows.
spinster may be correct...look at the way he eyed the 5 ball at exactly 2:01 through the video. He points to a spot on the rail near the 5, and (coincidentally?) that's exactly where the CB hit.
And also, look at his body language right after he strokes the shot. It doesn't seem he was paying attention at all to where the 6 was headed...further evidence that suggests he wasn't intending to make the 6. Instead, he was focused on the path of the CB. To me, it seemed like he didn't even notice the 6 ball was pocketed, at least initially.
I have to revise my hypothesis. I think he was playing both the 3 and 5, and leaving the 6 near the pocket in case he makes both the 3 and 5.
Anyone there in Derby City have time to show this shot to Efren on a laptop, and ask him exactly what was going through his mind?? It would be greatly appreciated.
I was so excited when I thought I would be the one to explain how right english helps throw the 6 but of course someone got to it first. I have placed 2 frozen balls offline to a pocket and asked countless league players to show me how they would try to make the second ball in the pocket and 99 percent aim on the wrong side and don't know what enlish to use.
If you don't know about this I highly recommend looking into it as it comes up countless times. Ever wonder why a combo that looked dead on missed? It's for the same reason a combo that is off can be made.
If you don't know about this I highly recommend looking into it as it comes up countless times. Ever wonder why a combo that looked dead on missed? It's for the same reason a combo that is off can be made.
I would think the shot is throwing the 6 in, and missing the five to go 3rails into the center for the 3. That 3 ball missed the pocket by a bit, and I'm sure Efren can tell if the shot was dead into the side or not.
Then again, it's Efren, who the hell knows what's going on up there.
Then again, it's Efren, who the hell knows what's going on up there.
hemicudas said:
I was in Hardtimes about in 92 and watched Efren play Big Wave Dave one hole 12 to 4 was the spot as I remember, I sat there for 3 hours and saw things I never thought were possible no matter what the layout a couple shots after the break he would find a way to move 2-3 balls over to his pocket and lock up dave so bad he was helpless, the creativity of his shot selection was amazing, he made Grady look like a B player at best. One Rack he ran his 12 from no where to start with dave went to the stake horse for more $$ and Efrin fired in the remaining 3 balls and they wernt hangers, it was the only time I watched all 15 go in the hole in one inning with a proper one hole break not a wide open break. Never had the chance to watch him again play one hole which i think is the best gambling game , where his brain is and thought process might be beyond his ability to just pocket balls.
Why he couldnt run 700 in 14.1 I dont understand, unless he has I have been out of the game since 94
BELIEVE ME, Efren, threw the 6 ball in AND played the one rail billiard, with 2:00 cue ball, that's extreme to high right english, to pocket the 5 ball. When you have an extremely tough shot that you have decided to go for, why wouldn't you try to pocket two balls on the same shot if possible? It doubles your chances of staying at the table.
TheOne said:because he wouldnt have shape on the 3 ball. I would be exteeemly surprised if he played the 5 ball leaving himself a long shot on the 3 and possibly even hooking himself.
I'm with sjm and mr lipsky!
With all due respect, TheOne, you are wrong. All he wanted was to be able to see the 3 ball. He is Efren.
hemicudas said:
Efren is the man, for sure...but that 6ball hit the side rail at least 4" before the pocket and still went in. It is a bit silly to see pro's playing on such loose tables. Sorta like if basketball players played with 10' rims
I motion to raise rim to 11.f'
hemicudas said:
Hemicudas,
You are right on.
In post number 19 I was trying to be funny like our friend smorgasbored.Effren did appear that he was going after both 6 and 5.And
I also felt that his main target was 5 Ball.I do not have any reservations on the judgement of Effren ,The Meistro
jsp said:...I think there's a possibility that he was intending of potting the 5.
...I have to revise my hypothesis. I think he was playing both the 3 and 5, and leaving the 6 near the pocket in case he makes both the 3 and 5.
As per my previous post, I don't think he thought the 6 was a sure thing, that's why CB was sent to 5.
hemicudas said:
hi hemicudas,
You are right on.In the post number 19 ,I was trying to be funny like our smorgasbored.I felt that Effren was going after both 6 and 5 and I further felt that his main target was 5 ball.His attack on 5 ball is obvious even to a dum player like me.who can question the judgement of Effren,The Maistro?
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vagabond said:
I do not play as well as the majority of posters on this thread.
However, it looks as if Efren "threw" the 6-ball in the corner, and as is customary with The Magician, he miraculously played the billiard on the 5-ball. What a shooter; what a guy!
JMHO, FWIW!
JAM
I think if Efren was here he would say something like (smiles) "yeah, I was real lucky." Sure.
A couple things that stuck me in the video. The 2 ball was a thing of beauty. He slightly mased the cue ball at just the right speed. Note that the cue was elevated. A "simple shot" but one that is easy to miss.
And finally the 3-ball. Swish. Not an easy shot either, but shot with no hesitation and effortlessly. Quite impressive as far as I am concerned.
A couple things that stuck me in the video. The 2 ball was a thing of beauty. He slightly mased the cue ball at just the right speed. Note that the cue was elevated. A "simple shot" but one that is easy to miss.
And finally the 3-ball. Swish. Not an easy shot either, but shot with no hesitation and effortlessly. Quite impressive as far as I am concerned.
Steve's got it correct.... Or, at least I agree with his opinion.
Cutting the 3-6 with english could only produce the throw effect we saw in the video. The 5 Ball wasn't suppose to be made(again IMO) and he was just trying to get the cue ball back up table for shape on the 3 ball.
Watch the video again... when the 5 ball falls, Efren shrugs.. lifts his arms... IMO I don't think he was expecting to make the 5 ball.
Great shot? maybe? typical Efren? you bet your A$$!!!!!
Cutting the 3-6 with english could only produce the throw effect we saw in the video. The 5 Ball wasn't suppose to be made(again IMO) and he was just trying to get the cue ball back up table for shape on the 3 ball.
Watch the video again... when the 5 ball falls, Efren shrugs.. lifts his arms... IMO I don't think he was expecting to make the 5 ball.
Great shot? maybe? typical Efren? you bet your A$$!!!!!
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Tom In Cincy said:
Tom, I think if you look at the video again and freeze it at the 2.01 mark you will see Efren standing over the 5 ball with his left index finger pressed on the rail, pointing directly at the 5 ball and looking at the angle he needs to play the billiard on the 5 ball I think you will have to agree, he played the 6 and the billiard on the 5 ball.
hemicudas said:
So, what you are saying is that Efren was going for the billiard on the five? That he wasn't intending to make the 6 ball? I have to agree that this is a possibility and certainly from Efren's background in billiards this carom is easily within his ability.
If the 3-6 is frozen, his shot is very makable for the 6 to go. Especially since he hit the pair the way he did.
Maybe he was playing a two way?
TheOne said:because he wouldnt have shape on the 3 ball. I would be exteeemly surprised if he played the 5 ball leaving himself a long shot on the 3 and possibly even hooking himself.
I'm with sjm and mr lipsky!
Let's add to what you've accurately noted that the path of approach toward the five made following in the five with the cue ball a distinct possibility.
I think it's all in the diagram. Clearly, many of us are assuming that Efren expected the six to go in given the way he intended to hit it. We're talking Efren here, so he probably figured the carom three wasn't going, but saw a way to allow for the possibility.
Still, if you start with the assumption that Efren knew that the six and three would miss, you can at least begin to consider the possibility that he played the carom five, but, even then, it's still iffy, as the carom three (possibly with draw to change the carom angle) in the side looks the easier of the two available caroms, and offered far better position prospects.
Nice to see everyone having fun with the position. The only thing we can be sure of here is that we can't be sure of anything!
This postion aside, all these table talk threads are making the forum a little more fun, I hope others will follow the lead of myself, cuetable, and onepocket73 by posting some thought-provoking shots.
Tom In Cincy said:
I said this in an earlier post, Tom but will iterate here. Efren tried to throw the 6 ball in off the frozen 3 ball. He knew it didn't have to go, very tough angle. So, he looked at the billiard on the 5 ball, even pointing to the spot he had to hit with the cue ball to make it. He hit the shot with the proper speed that would bring the 3 ball off the rail and into the open so as to not be hooked on it. As you know, all Efren needs is to be able to see the object ball, which he made and ran out. Bottom line is he tried to make the 6 ball and the 5 ball.
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