Efren's 3 way shot!!
- Thread starter Nostroke
- Start date
I don’t know how many one pocket aficionados we have here but the billiard on the 5 ball is one of Efren’s patented moves. I lived in the Chicago area for 20 years as did Efren for some years. I watched him play many times at the Billiard Café and other places. Efren has the ability to incorporate other games into what ever game he is playing at the time ie one pocket moves into his 9 ball game.
Assuming Efren has the pocket where he plays to throw the 6 ball, his opponent would have the pocket where the 5 ball is hung. I have seen Efren play the same billiard on the 5 ball to concede it to his opponent and continue his run to 8-10-12 or what ever number of balls he was obligated to make due to the spot he was giving up.
Even if you feel you have no interest in one pocket, you owe it to yourself to watch the all time master of the greatest pocket billiards game ever invented, IMHO. There are a handful of players who have a chance to beat Efren playing 9 ball, even 8 ball but no one who ever lived was/is the favorite to beat him playing one pocket. Efren has even surpassed the once greatest, again IMHO, Ronnie Allen.
Assuming Efren has the pocket where he plays to throw the 6 ball, his opponent would have the pocket where the 5 ball is hung. I have seen Efren play the same billiard on the 5 ball to concede it to his opponent and continue his run to 8-10-12 or what ever number of balls he was obligated to make due to the spot he was giving up.
Even if you feel you have no interest in one pocket, you owe it to yourself to watch the all time master of the greatest pocket billiards game ever invented, IMHO. There are a handful of players who have a chance to beat Efren playing 9 ball, even 8 ball but no one who ever lived was/is the favorite to beat him playing one pocket. Efren has even surpassed the once greatest, again IMHO, Ronnie Allen.
hemicudas said:
Thanks for a great post, Hemi. Though I've played one pocket, I'm not too knowledgeable about the game, so perhaps you'll offer me a little education here.
My first inclination when I saw the layout presented in this thread was that playing the carom five exposed Efren to a scratch. Of course, the smaller the pockets on the table, the less the exposure. As one-pocket is generally played on super-tight equipment, the carom five would seem to pose only a minor risk of a scratch.
Contrastingly, nine ball is typically played on looser equipment and the danger of the scratch would seem considerably greater.
What's your view (all others invited to chime in on this, too) on whether the scratch is an important consideration in planning the shot here? And, just for a moment, let's say that a "plain old A" player is the shooter, rather than the inimitable Reyes.
All I can say is that if you look carefully at the speed at which Efren played the shot, there's no way that he could have been planning to go three rails to the center at that angle and at that speed. As such, the only logical conclusion is that he was not sure that the three or the six would go, and therefore decided to try and make the five to ensure that his inning continued.
sjm said:
Thanks, SJM. First, the table they were playing on in the video is a Gold Crown and not a super tight Diamond, like you suggest. I own a Gold Crown 4 and the pockets on it are standard 41/2". Diamonds are more like 41/4" and I believe the Diamonds they are playing on at the DCC are cut to 4". So your point about the possible scratch is a good one, were it you or I shooting the shot. In the still, Efren's index finger is pointing to the exact spot he had to hit to pocket the ball and that is exactly where he hit. His precision on kicks and billiards has never been equaled.
I play a lot of one pocket. I wouldn’t have played the billiard on the 5 ball. Wouldn’t have seen it as an option playing 9 ball. Jose Parica, might have played it, with his tremendous one pocket ability. Would other “A” players have played the billiard? I don’t know. They would first have to see the shot as a possibility of staying at the table if the 6 ball didn’t fall.
I only hope BCN has their problems repaired in time to watch Efren, again, win the one pocket division.
I told you he was going for all 3!!! 
Cool to get his comments on the shot! Thanks!!!
Cool to get his comments on the shot! Thanks!!!
It's Magic!!
http://pl.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=260&posted=1#post260
and some other DCC photo in the same thread..
http://pl.cuetable.com/showthread.php?p=260&posted=1#post260
and some other DCC photo in the same thread..
hemicudas said:
i agree with you 100% no one in the history pool can beat E-Man playing one hole, i dont like to play the game but I'm a rail bird anytime champions play it, it is the best gambling game ever invented, you can stall just by shooting the wrong ball and still look like a good player or pull off E-Man shots if you happen to see one. Earl is subject to beat E-Man if all his marbles line up right for 45 minutes playint 9,10, rotation. but no one Grady, Ed Kelly, Corn Bread, etc can beat Efrin, it simply cant be done
sjm said:
Here you go! I think SJM and Steve Lipsky have a good handle on this shot. The primary ball was the Six, and he knew that the Three could go. He looked at the Five merely to confirm that the Cue Ball would not scratch in the corner. If the Three had fallen then the Five was his next shot. Correct?
If he misses the Five and the Cue ball comes up for the Three he is also in good shape to get out. An excellent two way shot that worked partially. I agree Efren did not want to make the Five.
OK, IMO he played the 3-6 carom with the 3 going in the side. There is no way of knowing the 6 would have went. Look at how much he threw the 6 and it still hit 1 diamond up from the corner pocket. And why in the world would you play the 5 ball sitting so close to the corner pocket. As much as I agree with you about his talent I think that would be crazy close to scratching.
I honestly believe he played the 3 ball and intended to run into the 5 ball. This does 2 things as well. If he makes the 3 he has a shot on the 5. If he doesn't make the 3 he has killed his Qball and possibly has a safe.
I honestly believe he played the 3 ball and intended to run into the 5 ball. This does 2 things as well. If he makes the 3 he has a shot on the 5. If he doesn't make the 3 he has killed his Qball and possibly has a safe.
hemicudas said:
Hemicuda is right! After searching for a day to find this shot you have been talking about it is obvious Efren played the 5 ball as insurance just in case he hung the six ball. I think if he was totally confident he could pocket the six he wouldn't have brought the cueball down to take out the five because he would have been closer to his work when he had to deal with the 3 ball. He couldn't guarantee the six would throw enough so he figured the solution was a 2way shot. Efren's the man. Go Effy!!!
P.S. As a rule of thumb when throwing a ball you can get as much as an inch of throw per foot of table. You young players read as much as you can. You can learn so much away from the table things that will inspire you at the table. Philw
hemicudas said:
Hemicuda, I've read many of your posts and am sure I must know you having been playing at the Chicago Billiard Cafe since it opened in 1984.
Efren first big matchup was a 9ball match against Billy Incardona back in the mid 80's Billy called the Cafe and told the owner Frank V. to put a new cloth on table eight because Efren was spotting him the 8 and the breaks and he wanted to be sure balls would fall in on the break. They played for $3000.00 a set I believe. I think it was a raise to 11 or 13 and after three sets Billy was up a set when Efren unscrewed. George Fels was present as well as myself and a few others and George wrote a piece in the Billiards Digest about this matchup. Efren only missed three balls in the entire three sets and still lost. So not only is Efren great but he is also smart. Smart enough to unscrew. I also got to see the exciting matchup Efren vs. Bugs
The Chicago Billiard Cafe was really cooking back then. Efren got his first taste of one pocket from Freddy (the beard) Bentivegna and Efren learned fast the rest is history. Hemicuda is there anyway to reveal your indentity to me? Please reply, Thanks Philw
Steve Lipsky said:Exactly... I don't even think it was a two-way shot. His efforts were mostly on making the 6, putting the right to help the 6 even more. As you saw from the video, it just barely went in. Without the massive right english he used, the 6 would not have fallen.
If anything he was probably trying to avoid the 5 altogether, as pocketing it would keep the cueball in a really bad spot to continue the rack (as actually happened).
It's possible he was playing the carom on the 3 too, but I really think most of his efforts were on the 6.
Edit: it's a shame we can't see his eyes in the video... that would tell you right away what he was doing by seeing what he looked at first
- Steve
The shot was a three-way shot, with Efren trying to make all three balls, the six, the three and the five. A little birdie in the know, told me so.
JoeyA
Here is my analysis on the supposed 3-way shot. for me, he intended to pocket 3-balls with 1 shot. he was playing the 6 basing from the right english that he used on the CB. he was also intending to pocket the 3, otherwise he would have stopped mid table for an open shot on the 3 on the side pocket and not going downhill with the cueball. the amount of spin and speed on the CB that he applied won't be enough to bring him back in the mid table for an easy setup shot on the 3 if he weren't aiming to pocket it the first time. that's why the 3 came up a bit in an awkward position when he missed it. on the 5 ball, basing on the direction of the CB going downhill left corner pocket, he was also aiming for it. there is no clear logic why he needed to go in that direction where he could have simply avoided going there by staying mid table for the setup 3. also, he would have scratched certainly if the 5 ball wasn't there. so that shot was on. now, if he made that 3 as well, he would have a perfect position on the 7. the 7 ball is available on the right upper corner pocket. it's a long but very makeable shot. I have also taken Effie's playmaking into consideration. especially his attitude towards entertaining the crowd by doing outrageuos shots. so it won't be a surprise that he does those things.
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