Efren's Hill-Hill Nine Ball Against Appleton

there are plenty of outcomes he could have had in mind but it's ridiculous to think he intended to make that shot. Just another guess but I think his body language gives it away too, the stroking motion he does while it's rolling in is not typical of efren and is similar to snapping his fingers, something else i've seen him do when fortune smiles.
 
no way on heart he was thinking about making the 9 ball. He was trying to make the 4 in the lower left corner or to bank it in the lower right. This fluke reinforces my thesis that in 9 ball the money ball should be called. I think is a shame that a game which requires so much precision, focus and mental strenght sometime is decided totally by luck. I'm against the call shots but atleast the money ball should be called.
This is another example of my theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSFlXCCQYug
at 4:13 the tragedy ( lol).
 
there are plenty of outcomes he could have had in mind but it's ridiculous to think he intended to make that shot. Just another guess but I think his body language gives it away too, the stroking motion he does while it's rolling in is not typical of efren and is similar to snapping his fingers, something else i've seen him do when fortune smiles.

What some of you are failing to understand is that first of all it's in no way a 1 way shot.

From his preshot routine it's fairly clear what he was trying to do and I can almost guarantee you he knew there was some percentage of a chance that the 9 would be moving from the 4 ball going 3 rails. To think that he didn't consider making the 9 here is ridiculous.
 
I think he was doing exactly what he did, which is get the hit on the 5 and send the cue ball all the way down table, hopefully leaving Appleton hooked, which he did.

Appleton fluked into a stone cold safety, and was man enough to point that fact out to the cheering crowd. Efren responded with a perfect kick safety that left Appleton full table and hooked.

Kevin
 
I was impressed with Efron's disipline to remember to take his 25 cent piece of master chalk off the table and back to his pool bag after the match ended and before he left. Nothing worse than getting to your next match chalkless.

As for the shot? There was nothing lucky about it. He kicked exactly where he aimed and good things happened. That's pool.

JC
 
stop debating what he did, time and again Efren will tell you that he got LUCKY! :)
 
What some of you are failing to understand is that first of all it's in no way a 1 way shot.

From his preshot routine it's fairly clear what he was trying to do and I can almost guarantee you he knew there was some percentage of a chance that the 9 would be moving from the 4 ball going 3 rails. To think that he didn't consider making the 9 here is ridiculous.

The odds that he makes this shot intentionally are astronomical. I'm a huge efren reyes fan and I've seen him do some amazing things that he actually meant to do, and other times where he clearly got lucky. In this case I'm fairly certain it was the latter.
 
OK, watch the shot, particularly Efren's pre-shot movements. He points the cuestick to a spot on the endrail near the corner pocket opposite from him. Then he, pretty clearly IMO, looks down to the rail nearest him, and points to (or picks out) a spot inside the first diamond (points to it with his left hand).

Given these preshot actions, what shot do you think the magician had in mind here? To me, it's not too farfetched that Efren played this shot. What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSe6troPrzg&feature=youtu.be

Like the tooth said, play whitey down table and cause separation with proper speed and good outcome play %tages. But looking at it again to answer your question and I'm Not positive of this, and I did see it live. Looks like he wanted to hit the side rail 3/4 of the way up the rail, so he found the 1/2 point and then split the upper 1/2 to put him 3/4 of the way up from the bottom rail.
 
Thanks to the op for starting this thread. This is a great insight that allows us to appreciate the possible extent to which these pros consider these shots. Unfortunately, Efren doesn't allow us extensive commentary into his thought processes, but if he did, I'm sure everyone on Earth would be blown away at times by all the things that he considers when determining the correct shot. I certainly think Efren was first playing for the safe, then the kick bank into the lower right corner (while going up-table for the five), while facilitating the major aspects of the safe. The kick sending the four directly into the lower left corner pocket or off the nine into the lower left corner virtually eliminates the chance of leaving the 4 in the middle of the end rail with the cue ball up-table. I consider Efren's execution of the shot clearly the correct way to play it because the direct kick combo into the nine leaves almost no chance for a safety. Another poster brought up a great point about the 9 blocking the 4 from three railing out and back up-table towards the cue ball. It would not shock me if it crossed Efren's mind. I'm not saying he played the shot with that being his primary objective. Certainly not (first safe, then banking the four, then maybe three railing the four into the corner, or into the nine), but Efren certainly had an easier, straight angle to hit the 4 accurately and attempt a very precise shot with the peace of mind that he could easily end up with a safety if he didn't put it down. Changing the game to call-shot would certainly eliminate certain lucky rolls, but it would also eliminate the advantage that creative players have in executing the two-way shot. (sometimes three or four way shot) To me, a two way shot is often the most satisfying part of a match to watch.
 
Thanks to the op for starting this thread. This is a great insight that allows us to appreciate the possible extent to which these pros consider these shots. Unfortunately, Efren doesn't allow us extensive commentary into his thought processes, but if he did, I'm sure everyone on Earth would be blown away at times by all the things that he considers when determining the correct shot. I certainly think Efren was first playing for the safe, then the kick bank into the lower right corner (while going up-table for the five), while facilitating the major aspects of the safe. The kick sending the four directly into the lower left corner pocket or off the nine into the lower left corner virtually eliminates the chance of leaving the 4 in the middle of the end rail with the cue ball up-table. I consider Efren's execution of the shot clearly the correct way to play it because the direct kick combo into the nine leaves almost no chance for a safety. Another poster brought up a great point about the 9 blocking the 4 from three railing out and back up-table towards the cue ball. It would not shock me if it crossed Efren's mind. I'm not saying he played the shot with that being his primary objective. Certainly not (first safe, then banking the four, then maybe three railing the four into the corner, or into the nine), but Efren certainly had an easier, straight angle to hit the 4 accurately and attempt a very precise shot with the peace of mind that he could easily end up with a safety if he didn't put it down. Changing the game to call-shot would certainly eliminate certain lucky rolls, but it would also eliminate the advantage that creative players have in executing the two-way shot. (sometimes three or four way shot) To me, a two way shot is often the most satisfying part of a match to watch.

Agreed totally with this. It's almost pointless to ask Efren about these things because he internally processes all these thoughts and then execute the one with the highest percentage of leaving a favorable outcome. Same reason he likes playing chess. He very rarely confuses me with his intent after the shot has taken place because he kicks so well.
 
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this. And thanks for link to the whole final game. I guess if you did ask Efren, you'd probably get his old standard, "I get lucky" reply. He seems to get lucky in some awfully important situations. I hope he has a little more magic left.
 
I was impressed with Efron's disipline to remember to take his 25 cent piece of master chalk off the table and back to his pool bag after the match ended and before he left. Nothing worse than getting to your next match chalkless.

Shhhhh...that's his magic chalk.
 
efren would have acknowledged the chance of the nine in the side before the shot if he was thinking it might go in there. he is pretty good at doing that from what i have seen on videos.
 
I think he's using a system for measuring the kick. There are a kicking and banking systems where you find a line going from the pocket to a point on the rail parallel to the object ball, then shift through some imaginary halfway point. That's what it looks like to me.

Obviously he could just use feel for an easy one but he wanted to be very accurate and hit the lower half of ball to ensure separation between the CB and OB. I believe that was his main goal. Make the ball, and if not, send the cue ball to the head of the table.
 
i think he did it on purpose. at least to hit the correct side of the nine with the four. why? all of us are projecting the path of the four from initial position. that's why its difficult for us to imagine it. efren projects the path of the four ball from the first rail where he points his finger. a lot of us will stop thinking where the four ball will go after the first rail, efren imagine it where its going to stop.
 
i think he did it on purpose. at least to hit the correct side of the nine with the four. why? all of us are projecting the path of the four from initial position. that's why its difficult for us to imagine it. efren projects the path of the four ball from the first rail where he points his finger. a lot of us will stop thinking where the four ball will go after the first rail, efren imagine it where its going to stop.

The speed of the four ball is an interesting point, because if it hits the nine on the other half, then the four would probably go up table too, maybe leaving a shot. So, I think at the very least Efren considered the possibility of the four hitting the nine, and the results of that possiblity.
 
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