efren's shot on BD website
- Thread starter mikepage
- Start date
That shot had to put a dagger in Sigel's heart. I know it did mine when I saw it happen. All I can say is wow. Efren has some imagination and a lot of guts to play that shot in a match.
Corys' draw ain't bad either,
Paul
Paul
Omg!!
Amazing shot. The guys doing the game analysis said it was very early in the match. It is unusual for a good straight pool player to take such a risky shot unless it's late in the match and they're way behind. Even then straight pool players just don't like to turn the cue ball loose. Just curious; what was the outcome of that match? Who was Efren's opponent and what was the final score?
Amazing shot. The guys doing the game analysis said it was very early in the match. It is unusual for a good straight pool player to take such a risky shot unless it's late in the match and they're way behind. Even then straight pool players just don't like to turn the cue ball loose. Just curious; what was the outcome of that match? Who was Efren's opponent and what was the final score?
Hmm, he made a bank shot and sent the cueball in a fairly standard direction. It's a good shot because he was a bit jacked up and he used inside english. It's a silly shot because he went into the stack in almost the worst way possible.
No good player is going to miss this shot by more than three inches in either direction, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. And it's almost easier to hit the rack after making it than not to.
Sorry to be a party pooper on this; been holding my tongue all day
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- Steve
No good player is going to miss this shot by more than three inches in either direction, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. And it's almost easier to hit the rack after making it than not to.
Sorry to be a party pooper on this; been holding my tongue all day
.- Steve
So Steve,
If someone held a gun to your head and said you had to play the aggressive bank shot, what would be a better way to go into the stack here?
If someone held a gun to your head and said you had to play the aggressive bank shot, what would be a better way to go into the stack here?
Steve Lipsky said:Hmm, he made a bank shot and sent the cueball in a fairly standard direction. It's a good shot because he was a bit jacked up and he used inside english. It's a silly shot because he went into the stack in almost the worst way possible.
No good player is going to miss this shot by more than three inches in either direction, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. And it's almost easier to hit the rack after making it than not to.
Sorry to be a party pooper on this; been holding my tongue all day
- Steve
I have to agree with Steve. It's just a standard cross side bank with a little inside english. For someone who plays as well as Efren, he should make the shot 80% of the time. After all his regular games have a lot more banks than straight pool does.
Would I shoot it? Probably not but I would have thought about it.
Would I shoot it? Probably not but I would have thought about it.
mikepage said:
I would say two rails into the side of the stack is much better than three rails into the bottom. If that angle is not available (and at a really firm speed to miss the scratch), then your risk reward ratio on shooting it in the first place goes way down.
In my opinion, it's not at all unlikely - going into the stack as he does - that he'll open a lot of balls and be dead stuck to the back row. This can be disastrous, especially when Sigel is in the chair waiting for an opportunity.
I will give him one thing about this position in favor of shooting the shot. There's no great safe option. I'm not at all sure I wouldn't play it given the same circumstance.
My only comment, and I'm sorry if I worded it poorly before, was that I can't see him missing the shot by much at all, and with a little left he's going to naturally go into the rack (2 rails with a lot of left, 3 with a little) anyway. He could shoot this shot 100 times and I can't see 5 of them looking dramatically different than this (not counting the small misses as "dramatically different").
Now Corey's draw on the other hand...
- Steve
I don't think the point is the difficulty of the shot as much as pulling it off under those circumstances. It's not like it's a friendly game and it doesn't matter if you win or lose. It was a very aggressive shot during the US Open. Not too many players would have opted for that one.
MULLY
that man's got some pills
MULLY
that man's got some pills
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Steve Lipsky said:Hmm, he made a bank shot and sent the cueball in a fairly standard direction. It's a good shot because he was a bit jacked up and he used inside english. It's a silly shot because he went into the stack in almost the worst way possible.
No good player is going to miss this shot by more than three inches in either direction, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. And it's almost easier to hit the rack after making it than not to.
Sorry to be a party pooper on this; been holding my tongue all day
- Steve
I don't think going into the underside of the rack at an angle is one of the worst possible ways to go into it. It's actually text book for how you should go into the rack if you're going into it from underneath. Going into the side of the rack from there would have been more dangerous in my opinion because of the huge scratch factor. Now, if he was coming straight off the bottom cushion that would be a different story.
MULLY
he can make anything he sees anyway so any position is good position for him
The shot looks more impressive than it really is. The biggest deal about this shot is that he chose to shoot it. I set it up on my table and made it a bunch of times....still low % when you're playing someone who will steam-roll you if you miss.
I still think Efren is a top-notch 14.1 player...and he doesn't even play.
I still think Efren is a top-notch 14.1 player...and he doesn't even play.
Steve Lipsky said:Hmm, he made a bank shot and sent the cueball in a fairly standard direction. It's a good shot because he was a bit jacked up and he used inside english. It's a silly shot because he went into the stack in almost the worst way possible.
No good player is going to miss this shot by more than three inches in either direction, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. And it's almost easier to hit the rack after making it than not to.
Sorry to be a party pooper on this; been holding my tongue all day
- Steve
I agree Steve,
I figure the bank is a 50/50 shot for a decent banker and with stun IE it is almost certain to hit the pack. I expect he was trying to hit it on the way down rather than bouncing up into it.
Though, I'm no 14.1 player, I suspect a 50/50 shot is a bit to risky in that game, so maybe Efren sees it as an 80/20, though it didn't look like there were many decent safeties available.
I would have played that shot and been slightly disappointed if I didn't make it, though I tend to play 14.1 more aggressively being less familiar with the nuances.
Colin
SpiderWebComm said:
Yes. I agree with this. The cross bank is straightforward, and going to the end rail with some inside is pretty natural here...
For me, though, as soon as I put my 14.1 hat on, I am fearful of all kinds of shots that I wouldn't think twice about in 9-ball. And I carry that fear even when I see someone ELSE playing 14.1.
Funny, though, my opponents don't seem to have that fear! I don't get it. You would think the prospect of having six or eight balls run on them would put the fear of God in their hearts But NO, they boldly go for all kinds of stuff. I don't get it...
mikepage said:
Well, you would prob shoot it with the prospect of having 6 or 8 balls run on ya (you're a good player, I don't think that would faze you... I know you're joking). I know I would. Now, if I think someone is gonna run 30+ balls on me... it's a different story. It's REALLLLLLY a different story when Sigel, who can run 100+ a mid-double-digit-%, is stepping up behind you.
The irony is....Efren couldn't possibly care less if it was Sigel or the "End of the World" stepping up after him. He thinks in his mind he'll grind them to death if they don't run the game out.
Colin Colenso said:
I don't know. Efren is a pretty solid 3-cushion player too. I think he went into it pretty much where he expected to. After all the cushion shots I've seen him make over the years I would highly doubt that he was that far off from what he intended to do. If he was wanting to go into the side of the pack, which has a huge scratch factor built right into it, but went into them where he did then he was waaaay off his mark. Nah, I think he played it like that.
MULLY
SpiderWebComm said:
You know, I also think that Reyes is a great straight pool player and could probably be one of the best in history if he set his sights on it. But one thing I've always said about his game is that he plays 9-ball straight pool. That break shot is a perfect example. A truly great straight pool player like Sigel, Rempe, Varner etc... most likely wouldn't have opted for that shot during a match at the US Open. But Reyes plays his game his way. I think it's interesting to watch him play but I don't feel like I really learn anything important from him like I do watching the players I mentioned before.
I've heard that we have a new school of straight pool with young aggressive players that play shots like that. I'm sorry, I just can't get on board with it. I like the traditional style of straight pool........and in the long run the traditional style is going to take you farther.......in my opinion that is.
MULLY