Efrens understanding.

[lamar25]

Another BS story. There are more bs story about Efren than Kaiser Soze.
Efren was the Karambola King of the Philippines. He got so dominant they banned him. He ended spotting the champion, after he was banned, a huge spot and still beat him for the cash.
He was already a pool player at 12 years old. But, he excelled in Karambola as well. He told me his last year as a karambola player was 1979.
Here's a true story.
Alex and Efren were hanging out at Hollywood Billiards back in 96'.
The owner approached Efren and introduced a local 3-cushion player.
They agreed to race to 35 for some cash.
We go upstairs where the heated table was. I asked Efren, what billiard cue he's going to use. He pulls out his Meucci ( he was under contract with them then ) that had a tapered down shaft. IT was so whippier than a wet noodle ( ok I'm exaggerating ).
He beats the gentleman who had a nice Gina billiard cue with an elephant ear wrap.
During the match, Efren told me he could have spotted that man 50-25 easily back in 79. The last year he played competitive billiards.
Efren then goes to Hong Kong and beat Earl in the Color of Money with his tapered down Meucci.

Hey Joey,
WHY are you jumping down my throat. Did I step on your toes or whatever. I was only stating what I heard.
"Have a nice day",
Lamar

 

[Travis Bickle]

Might as well ask Bird or Trane how they got that sound ...

Maybe he'll tell us a few things after he's done snapping off the big prizes ... and when he's No. 10 in the world in 1-hole, assuming he lives to about 120. But why would he give out any ammo at this point?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hey Joey,
WHY are you jumping down my throat. Did I step on your toes or whatever. I was only stating what I heard.
"Have a nice day",
Lamar

I didn't . I jumped on the guy who told you that bs story.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Mr441]

Some one please give out some insight on Efren, I have not been playing for along time, but I am starting to think that the guy has some knowledge or understanding on the game of pocket billiards that most dont. Granted there is of course natural talent, but can the guy right a book or something? I would think the world of pocket billiards would be at a great loss if Efren was to pass away without writing about his knowledge of the game. Has anyone had a lesson with Efren or have a good story?

Mack

Players like Reyes, Strickland, Sigel etc. started very young, played A LOT, and competed at an early age whether it was gambling or tournament play or both. There's no special secret, sure some have more natural ability than others but the less ability one has the more you have to practice to get to the top. Try practicing 10 hours a day in a very serious manner every day for a few years and see what happens to your game.

 

[Gerry]

A few random thoughts along the lines of this post.

Efren and the other Phillipino guys that came over here first, stayed at "Spanish" Mike LeBrons house in Philly for a while.

There's not 1 thing IMHO that Efren can't tell you about any pool/billiard game. I don't mean explaining Physics either! We all know you work on shots to get the "FEEL" of a given shot. You can explain it with physics. but you have to engrain it into your subconscience with feel...

I know the more I work on fundamentals, and "TRY" to aim, the worse I play, in direct proportion to how much I try to work on them. When I forget I even have a cue in my hand, and just let go, I play at my highest gear.

Maybe, "proper fundamentals" don't work for every person. Maybe Efrens style IS proper. just like if you made me play like a snooker player, I'd have BIG trouble, because I've tried it! and I"ll never get that year back!

I dunno, all I can say is I've got a bajillion hours of Efren on video, and I'm doing my best to enfuse his game into mine. Not to mention he seems like such a cool/nice person to be around. Maybe I'll get to meet him at the DCC.....Gerry

 

[tfdr]

when you see efren play your not seeing a game of science as all other top players do.You are seeing an art.
Even if Leornardo da Vinci writes tons of books we will never be like him.
Arts comes from the person naturally..a talent not just an intelligence.
That is why we love to watch him play

 

[freddy the beard]

Efren did his Basic Training in Chicago

A few random thoughts along the lines of this post.

Efren and the other Phillipino guys that came over here first, stayed at "Spanish" Mike LeBrons house in Philly for a while.

Gerry

My ego is forcing me to intercede here. Efren did not stay with Mike LeBron until after he did a one year stint at the Billiard Cafe in Chicago. Efren, Parica and Luat all hung there. I dont want anyone to be led to believe that Efren honed his pool and onepocket game in Philadelphia. It was Chicago, where he and I played almost daily. He learned onepocket from Billy Incardona (who also played him on a regular basis) and myself. Ask him. His learning and quick pick up of the game was not intentional. Nobody can stop that guy from learning. We started out with me spotting him 10 to 8, ten days later he was playing me 10 to 8. Chicago is also where Jose Parica learned bank pool by getting drummed on by the Black bankers from the South Side and myself. In those days if you wanted to learn straight pool you went to New York, if you wanted to learn onepocket and banks, you came to Chicago. You probably wouldnt win, but you would learn.

the Beard
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!

 

[Gerry]

My ego is forcing me to intercede here. Efren did not stay with Mike LeBron until after he did a one year stint at the Billiard Cafe in Chicago. Efren, Parica and Luat all hung there. I dont want anyone to be led to believe that Efren honed his pool and onepocket game in Philadelphia. It was Chicago, where he and I played almost daily. He learned onepocket from Billy Incardona (who also played him on a regular basis) and myself. Ask him. His learning and quick pick up of the game was not intentional. Nobody can stop that guy from learning. We started out with me spotting him 10 to 8, ten days later he was playing me 10 to 8. Chicago is also where Jose Parica learned bank pool by getting drummed on by the Black bankers from the South Side and myself. In those days if you wanted to learn straight pool you went to New York, if you wanted to learn onepocket and banks, you came to Chicago. You probably wouldnt win, but you would learn.

the Beard
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!

AGAIN, I bow to your all encompasing pool knowledge!.....great book BTW...I'm re-reading it today, I read it 2 days ago also

Maybe I should have said when the Phillipino guys came to my area (Philly)

I remember there being such a buzz about these forign guys who never miss. That was pretty much right! Come to think of it, your right. When I was learning, everyone played 14.1!....1pocket was rarely played, only if a road agent was around, and Banks....BANKS....what the hell is that?...I never played the game til moving to Florida. Now I'm trying to catch up on years of not playing 1P and Banks.....Your book is making that MUCH easier!.....Thanks.....Gerry

 

[catscradle]

when you see efren play your not seeing a game of science as all other top players do.You are seeing an art.
Even if Leornardo da Vinci writes tons of books we will never be like him.
Arts comes from the person naturally..a talent not just an intelligence.
That is why we love to watch him play

I agree Efren has something "special", but don't ever forget he ALSO plays a very intelligent, thinking game of pool. His execution may be without thought, but his decision making process is not.

 

[catscradle]

AGAIN, ...Your book is making that MUCH easier!.....Thanks.....Gerry

... and that book is ??????

 

[TheBook]

If he wrote a book it would probably have all the stuff that has already been written. Every one is looking for that magic feather and there is none. Education basically comes from experience and experience comes form making mistakes and remember not to make those mistakes again. The key words are experience and remembering. Experience being practicing and playing. There are no shortcuts. Every now and then a "freak" comes along like Efren, Tiger Woods, Michelle Wie, Labron James, Etc. The rest of us are pretenders that can practice and play but will never reach those levels because we just don't have the all the ingredients.

 

[Jaden]

I never said a game of science.

when you see efren play your not seeing a game of science as all other top players do.You are seeing an art.
Even if Leornardo da Vinci writes tons of books we will never be like him.
Arts comes from the person naturally..a talent not just an intelligence.
That is why we love to watch him play

In fact I believe I said that he deosn't really necesarily know all of the underlying principles. I'm not saying he doesn't, just that he might not. The thing I am saying is that he has more practical knowledge as to what actually works. To make the mistake of thinking that Efren is just some sort of pool savant is to not give him enough credit.

He KNOWS the game, possibly better than almost anyone on the planet. If that's just a matter of knowing how to develop the right feel and to how to get into and keep the right mindset, those are still aspects of knowledge of the game and he HAS them.

I know that since I've really started to try and figure out how those things that allow you to get into the right mindset and how to figure out exactly what the contact points are and developing different ways of being closer to 100% accurate, my ability has gone up three fold and I was already on the cusp of being a strong A+ player. I probably shouldn't say that, I know it sounds Arrogant, not Ignorant like someone accused me of, but I can't help it. Since this has come about, I'm just too excited over the prospect that I can't wait to get back to the states and start using some of this.

I don't really care what people think about what I'm saying. I know that a stroke speaks louder than words. I'm not looking for people to say oh, I want to bow down to you oh pool God. I'm just speaking freely. I have come to certain realizations in the past few months and I spoke them out loud. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the top players don't have secret methods of aiming comboing and caroming kicking banking etc.... I am willing to admit when I'm wrong... I don't think so though.... I think that on some level they have figured out the easiest ways to be extremely accurate and consistent and are afraid to put them out there. That's all I was saying. I know with the systems that I have been working on that I'm afraid to put them out there, atleast until I get a chance to see if they'll allow me to be as consistent as I think and hope. Again, I haven't even been able to play on a table more than once in the last six months.

Oh BTW, Colin, I admit I was wrong about stroke and BHE, it is not important to have a straight stroke to make the shot using BHE, but it is to remain as constistent as possible on CB control though.....

If anyone doubts my ability to play before these epiphanies, well I'm so sorry for you. I guess we'll see what we see. Plus, you could always ask DWallace, he knows how fast I used to run.
or maybe even Chris Macdonald, if he's not sure I'm sure he suspects how fast I ran.

Again I apologize if I am sounding arrogant. I'm just excited about the prospects that lie before me, with the real money that the IPT has to offer and the circumstances in my life right now that just appear to be falling into place. OK? Oh well, I'm sure some people will read this and just get more pissed off, I really don't care that much. WEll, I care a little or I wouldn't have written this.....

 

[Rude Dog]

I think that Efren would write a book, it would not only make him money in sales, but the money generated into the pool world by the non-players right now would be HUGE. Doyle Brunson, who many say is the best poker player ever, wrote a book, and it didn't hurt his wallet any. Efren could then say, 'I taught 'em everything they know, but not everything I know." Peace, John.

 

[bud green]

I don't know that Efren would write all that good of a book on pool playing. He seems to be more of a natural talent than systematic type of player. I don't know if you want your kids to start playing with his style; lots of spin, two foot bridge, or if he is the guy to teach you how to break.

He could write a book on the mental game though. Who else is so cool under pressure so consistently? No one knows HOW to win better than Efren. Color of Money for $100K, recent 200K IPT,and the 160K he snapped off in Asia awhile back. Others break harder, pocket balls just as good, and have better fundamentals but no one else is even close to his success lately except for maybe Alex P., Thorsten, or Wu.


I have a number of tapes of Efren playing nine ball and one pocket and its amazing to see how he almost always finds a way to win. His shotmaking is great (although he says its "rotten" compared to before) but it's his subtle little finesse shots and kicks that separate him from the rest. One pocket especially; every match he seems to bury his opponent behind a ball near his opponents pocket. What he does time after time is completely block off the table to his opponent with these incredible shots that spin and die right on the ball. Doesn't matter if there are other balls around, if he has to kick rail first,etc... he buries you, then wriggles out of any trouble, and then runs out.

***Question for Freddie: I remember you telling the story (accu-stats tape)about Efren coming to Chicago and playing you and Billy. I also remember a real interesting part where you said his game still had some holes in it.

"I know he does, I'm the one who put them there" is how you put it, I believe.

Mind if I ask what the holes were and if he's patched them up? Just the concept of putting holes in his game is hilarious. Old school pool! I guess Efren and Artie never played; I don't remember you discussing that on any tapes,posts,etc...



Ronnie Allen (maybe the greatest ever) on Efren when asked who would of won if they were both in their prime:

"He might of won, but he'd be too tired to spend it". Even Ronnie admits Efren might be the greatest ever.

 

[bud green]

Sorry to disagree Rude Dog, but Doyle Brunson said he made tens of thousands of dollars from writing Super System, but that it cost him millions in poker earnings later.

Basically, people learned that he was bluffing a lot and stopped letting him bully them around thinking he always got the nuts.

 

[supergreenman]

Personally, I'd much rather read a biography of Efren, I doubt very much that a how to shoot pool like Efren book would have any earth shattering revelations that can't be found in any other How to Shoot pool books(jmo).

James

 

[Jaden]

I wouldn't know

Personally, I'd much rather read a biography of Efren, I doubt very much that a how to shoot pool like Efren book would have any earth shattering revelations that can't be found in any other How to Shoot pool books(jmo).

James

I;ve never read any pool books, so I wouldn't know....

 

[Black-Balled]

I have a number of tapes of Efren playing nine ball and one pocket and its amazing to see how he almost always finds a way to win...What he does time after time is completely block off the table to his opponent with these incredible shots...Doesn't matter if there are other balls around...

And that is about the crux of 'why Efren plays so good', isn't it? Check this out (whaddya do from here? 'A' is your pocket, 1H is the game):
START(
%AE5G3%BN3^1%CF0Z0%Dn3F5%ED6T9%FO5^5%GM0_1%H^0E2%IM5^5%Ja5Z7
%LL0^9%Of4J2%PF0E0%QA8A7%SB1[5
)END

Here is what Efren did:
START(
%AE5G3%BN3^1%CF0Z0%Dn3F5%ED6T9%FO5^5%GM0_1%H^0E2%IM5^5%Jb3Y9
%LL0^9%Of4J2%Pd9Z9%QA8A7%SB1[5%Wc4[1%XF4E3
)END

And, like Bud said, sure enough, he wriggled his way to a win from there (DCC 2005). Brilliant.

 

[Rude Dog]

Sorry to disagree Rude Dog, but Doyle Brunson said he made tens of thousands of dollars from writing Super System, but that it cost him millions in poker earnings later.

Basically, people learned that he was bluffing a lot and stopped letting him bully them around thinking he always got the nuts.

I understand what you're saying, but my point is the popularity of poker has a lot to do with his book. So, w/o his book, there may be ten's of millions less players playing the game now. Who knows? It was just a thought on my part, maybe I'm wrong. Peace, John.

 

[henho]

Jaden, why don't you tell us your real name so we can follow your rise to pool stardom?