End game? Question

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LEAGUE PLAY-9ball-handicapped.

Player1(P1) giving the 7ball. Player2(P2) shoots 7ball, misses but slops in 8ball. He and teammates celebrate victory(w/out their captain who was off discussing a perceived 'coaching' violation with league director(LD). P1 sits quietly while celebration ensues. Eventually P2 approaches P1 with outstreched hand-they shake with no words spoken.

'Winner' teammate gathers remaining 7ball and 9ball to rack next game.

P1 calls FOUL.

CONSIDERABLE DISCUSSION FOLLOWS . LD called in to make a ruling.


WHAT'S YOUR CALL??? - if you were the league director? Anybody had this situation happen before?


NOTE: Prior to breaking P1 confirmed with opposing captain that P1 was giving the 7ball.


3railkick
 
Sounds like P1 was in the right, but IMHO went about it in a very unsportsman-like manner, even though it's not his responsibility to inform his opponent on anything.

Shaking his hand could, COULD be construed as a giving the game to P2, but not necessarily.

If I was the LD, I'd probably sided with P1.
 
3RAILKICK said:
... 'Winner' teammate gathers remaining 7ball and 9ball to rack next game. ...
Click to expand...
The teammate was acting as the referee. The referee is not penalized for fouls. I'd ask the player who remained silent to sit out a few weeks and think about the Golden Rule. All too many people in sports of various kinds operate on the strategy, "screw him before he can screw me."
 
P1 is a tool for not correcting the issue and going with the fake handshake...

P2 and team is a tool for celebrating a lucky roll on the 8...even if would have won him the game, celebrating slop is stupidity....

Personally, I would have told them to stop celebrating and reminded them that the 8 was made out of turn.....when they snapped back that this is not 8 ball, I would have reminded them that they are getting the 7, not the 8, so shoot again stick....
 
Big Perm said:
P1 is a tool for not correcting the issue and going with the fake handshake...

P2 and team is a tool for celebrating a lucky roll on the 8...even if would have won him the game, celebrating slop is stupidity....

Personally, I would have told them to stop celebrating and reminded them that the 8 was made out of turn.....when they snapped back that this is not 8 ball, I would have reminded them that they are getting the 7, not the 8, so shoot again stick....
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PLaying eight ball and making a ball on the breack and getting you pick solids or stips is not eight ball and needs to be changed. Whatever you make on the breack is what you have. And whoever made that rule does not know what the are doing. And three scratches in a row you loose the game is another horrable rule. And one foul cue ball in had is to simple for the players to run out. The breack up thier problem ball and the game is over. THe new rules have made the game too simple. I wont be on her too long so listen to what I wright it will help your game. And you will learn what the correct thing to do is. And you will improve your game. Nobody hardly knowes me. But you will soon see what I wright works and will open up your mind to think. Thinking is the key to improveing your game. And after you reached you potential in shooting that is they only way you can keep improving your game. By learniong more. And making less mistakes count your mistakes in every game and cut down on your mistakes and your game will improve a lot. Start doing that today. And you will also start learning more once you start doing that.
 
I wouldnt be so quick to judge P1 before knowing the entire story. Their could be some bad blood between the two teams that isnt being disclosed here. Was the meeting with the LD concerning an incident that happened during the same match?

3RAILKICK said:
He and teammates celebrate victory(w/out their captain who was off discussing a perceived 'coaching' violation with league director(LD).
Click to expand...
 
3RAILKICK said:
LEAGUE PLAY-9ball-handicapped.

Player1(P1) giving the 7ball. Player2(P2) shoots 7ball, misses but slops in 8ball. He and teammates celebrate victory(w/out their captain who was off discussing a perceived 'coaching' violation with league director(LD). P1 sits quietly while celebration ensues. Eventually P2 approaches P1 with outstreched hand-they shake with no words spoken.

'Winner' teammate gathers remaining 7ball and 9ball to rack next game.

P1 calls FOUL.

CONSIDERABLE DISCUSSION FOLLOWS . LD called in to make a ruling.


WHAT'S YOUR CALL??? - if you were the league director? Anybody had this situation happen before?


NOTE: Prior to breaking P1 confirmed with opposing captain that P1 was giving the 7ball.


3railkick
Click to expand...

If I'm understanding this correctly the game is nine ball and both players are aware that P1 is giving up the seven ball. To me this means that P2 wins by legally pocketing the seven. Pocketing the eight even if by slop awards him with another turn to continue shooting.

It seems that player P1 was naive or confused. In either case if I was the TD I would rule to either replay the game or award it to P1 because the balls were raked by P2s teammate. IMO every player on a team is regarded as one. Team mate had no business touching the balls.

P1 in shaking the hand of P2 does not imply that he conceded the game it is a decision only the referee can rule on. Since P2 had no control on the actions of his team mate I believe playing the game over would be the best.
 
dabarbr said:
P1 in shaking the hand of P2 does not imply that he conceded the game it is a decision only the referee can rule on.
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I generally agree with you but on this one I don't. I think he conceded the game when he shook his hand.

The reason I believe this is because I think Player 1 was pulling a move. Player 1 was sitting there looking at the table and saw that the 7 ball was an easy shot after the 8 was slopped in. That is pretty much the only reason NOT to say anything. Therefore, I think he conceded the game when he shook hands with the "winner."
 
JDB said:
I generally agree with you but on this one I don't. I think he conceded the game when he shook his hand.

The reason I believe this is because I think Player 1 was pulling a move. Player 1 was sitting there looking at the table and saw that the 7 ball was an easy shot after the 8 was slopped in. That is pretty much the only reason NOT to say anything. Therefore, I think he conceded the game when he shook hands with the "winner."
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If the scenario played out like you said then yes the hand shake would be to acknowledge that P2 would make the seven ball if it was an easy shot. However the hand shake is usually offered by the one that concedes the game, not by the one that will win the game.

P.S. JDB, you make a valid point. I'm wondering what the outcome was?
 
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Frank got it

:yes:LD ruled that the game be replayed. P1 won the replay.

ADDITIONAL INFO: 'Discussion' revealed P2 thot that he got the 8ball and that his teammates knew that it was the 7ball. They did not address this in the celebration.

IT WAS A MOVE? P1 shakes P2 hand at the end of the celebration and waits for P2 to shoot. He doesn't. Instead teammate gathers the undisturbed cb, 7ball and 9ball.

P1 would have accepted any LD decision without a problem. He just wanted to know if P2 won despite not completing the game. If so. lesson learned.


It was very strange.


Thanks for droppin in

3railkick
 
3RAILKICK said:
:yes:LD ruled that the game be replayed. P1 won the replay.

ADDITIONAL INFO: 'Discussion' revealed P2 thot that he got the 8ball and that his teammates knew that it was the 7ball. They did not address this in the celebration.

IT WAS A MOVE? P1 shakes P2 hand at the end of the celebration and waits for P2 to shoot. He doesn't. Instead teammate gathers the undisturbed cb, 7ball and 9ball.

P1 would have accepted any LD decision without a problem. He just wanted to know if P2 won despite not completing the game. If so. lesson learned.


It was very strange.


Thanks for droppin in

3railkick
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Just to satisfy my curiosity can you tell us where the 7 ball was at when all of this happened? My guess is that it was an easy shot, otherwise Player 1 would have said something.
 
I guess it boils down to whether he was giving the 7 and out or just the seven ball. As for the hand shake, therein lies the problem....

Chris
 
Bodendorfer said:
PLaying eight ball and making a ball on the breack and getting you pick solids or stips is not eight ball and needs to be changed.
WHAT?

Whatever you make on the breack is what you have. And whoever made that rule does not know what the are doing.
WHAT?
And three scratches in a row you loose the game is another horrable rule.

And one foul cue ball in had is to simple for the players to run out.

The breack up thier problem ball and the game is over. THe new rules have made the game too simple. I wont be on her too long so listen to what I wright it will help your game. And you will learn what the correct thing to do is. And you will improve your game.

Nobody hardly knowes me.

But you will soon see what I wright works and will open up your mind to think. Thinking is the key to improveing your game. And after you reached you potential in shooting that is they only way you can keep improving your game. By learniong more. And making less mistakes count your mistakes in every game and cut down on your mistakes and your game will improve a lot. Start doing that today. And you will also start learning more once you start doing that.
Click to expand...
this guy is a wright!:smile:
 
I thought when you are getting the 7 it is assumed you are also getting the 8 and 9. Sounds like kind of a chicken shit league to me.
 
alstl said:
I thought when you are getting the 7 it is assumed you are also getting the 8 and 9. Sounds like kind of a chicken shit league to me.
Click to expand...

Not knowing the structure of the league, we obviously dont know how their handicap system is set up. But when matching up it is normal to hear someone offer just the 7 or 6 or 5 without giving all that are above it.

There is a big difference between giving just the 7 and giving the 7 and 8, but I really dont know what would make either of them chicken excrement :grin-square:
 
JUST THE 7BALL(and the 9ball)

alstl said:
I thought when you are getting the 7 it is assumed you are also getting the 8 and 9. Sounds like kind of a chicken shit league to me.
Click to expand...

That assumption of 7 out may have been a factor-P2 was a sub for the evening.

P2's 'winning' ? shot(ABOVE)

CueTable Help


CueTable Help

LAYOUT AFTER SHOT:(ABOVE)

7ball might bank or double kiss.

P1 is not a tool by nature. Involving the LD seemed appropriate.

BTW: recently saw a move. Hill-hill. After dry break-breaker brakes down break cue during opponent easy run out-in line of sight of shooter. Shooter contends game over. Breaker contends break cue no longer needed-so he broke it down. TD rules-no loss of game. Shooter misses/loses. THAT WAS A MOVE.

Again-very strange sequence of events re P1 and P2.

THE END/moving on


3railkick
 
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