Ending up ahead- more gambling issues

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Shoebat
In another thread going on right now, someone is asking whether it's alright to quit winner... in his situation of six hours and $700 later. There are a lot of people offering their own habits and opinions on this, the most notable being that it's always okay to quit, at any time. Rather than hijack his thread, I thought I'd offer my own story with the more general question: isn't there an assumption of having some gamble if you accept a gamble? I know I didn't quite say that right. Please don't knock me and my story just because the money's cheap and we two players suck. There is a principle.

So I approached someone I'd seen for weeks at no less than three different poolrooms in town, sometimes even hanging out with very, very respected and accomplished players. That night I was with the girls on my league team, who all wanted to play "loser sits down" one-on-one 8ball with five girls on one table, and I was bored stiff thinking that way of "practicing" was just making us all even worse. So I asked this guy on the next table if he wanted to play cheap sets of 9ball- race to five for ten.

"You must think you can beat me, now that you've been watching me. That's why you asked me."
"No, I noticed you're getting warmed up- you were missing when you came in, and now you're not." I seriously didn't care if I was out- matched: at $10 a pop I was happy to pay for hours of cheap lessons from this guy who rolled with the greats.

He accepts the bet. It's not a total embarrassment- he beats me 5-3 after accidentally flying the nine on the hill, and after my teammates get into a long hissy girl argument about whether to stay and practice on the 9ft table, or go to a bar. (That was distracting- our co- captain got mad and finally told our captain, "Nobody here even cares if you go home or not!")

So even after losing 5-3, I figured he wasn't nearly as good as I had initially assumed, and thought I might have a long, entertaining night ahead of NOT being stomped, but playing fairly evenly. Especially since my teammates had left.

After he makes the final nine, I ask to go again. He says sure, but now let's play for five.

"For five? I can't break even for five."
"I gotta come away with something."
"How 'bout you come away with twenty if you beat me?"
"No, let's just play for five."
"If I can't even make my money back, why don't we just quit now?"
"Okay."
"Have you ever gambled before?"
"No, not really. You're the first person to ask me."

I know some of you are going to say I should have specified the number of sets, what time we were going home, everything. But Sheesh. It was so cheap it was friendly. It was the Jointed Cue. The guy hangs out with some of the NorCal greats, and was seen recently at three different poolrooms. I wasn't messing with a loud, drunk, unknown banger at a local bar betting wads of unseen cash.

I just can't get over his line, "I gotta come away with something."

I guess I just needed to rant. In my own thread.
 
blah blah said:
In another thread going on right now, someone is asking whether it's alright to quit winner... in his situation of six hours and $700 later. There are a lot of people offering their own habits and opinions on this, the most notable being that it's always okay to quit, at any time. Rather than hijack his thread, I thought I'd offer my own story with the more general question: isn't there an assumption of having some gamble if you accept a gamble? I know I didn't quite say that right. Please don't knock me and my story just because the money's cheap and we two players suck. There is a principle.

So I approached someone I'd seen for weeks at no less than three different poolrooms in town, sometimes even hanging out with very, very respected and accomplished players. That night I was with the girls on my league team, who all wanted to play "loser sits down" one-on-one 8ball with five girls on one table, and I was bored stiff thinking that way of "practicing" was just making us all even worse. So I asked this guy on the next table if he wanted to play cheap sets of 9ball- race to five for ten.

"You must think you can beat me, now that you've been watching me. That's why you asked me."
"No, I noticed you're getting warmed up- you were missing when you came in, and now you're not." I seriously didn't care if I was out- matched: at $10 a pop I was happy to pay for hours of cheap lessons from this guy who rolled with the greats.

He accepts the bet. It's not a total embarrassment- he beats me 5-3 after accidentally flying the nine on the hill, and after my teammates get into a long hissy girl argument about whether to stay and practice on the 9ft table, or go to a bar. (That was distracting- our co- captain got mad and finally told our captain, "Nobody here even cares if you go home or not!")

So even after losing 5-3, I figured he wasn't nearly as good as I had initially assumed, and thought I might have a long, entertaining night ahead of NOT being stomped, but playing fairly evenly. Especially since my teammates had left.

After he makes the final nine, I ask to go again. He says sure, but now let's play for five.

"For five? I can't break even for five."
"I gotta come away with something."
"How 'bout you come away with twenty if you beat me?"
"No, let's just play for five."
"If I can't even make my money back, why don't we just quit now?"
"Okay."
"Have you ever gambled before?"
"No, not really. You're the first person to ask me."

I know some of you are going to say I should have specified the number of sets, what time we were going home, everything. But Sheesh. It was so cheap it was friendly. It was the Jointed Cue. The guy hangs out with some of the NorCal greats, and was seen recently at three different poolrooms. I wasn't messing with a loud, drunk, unknown banger at a local bar betting wads of unseen cash.

I just can't get over his line, "I gotta come away with something."

I guess I just needed to rant. In my own thread.
Click to expand...

Interesting story. First of all I would like to point out, that when your watching someone practice alone, its some indication of how good they are, but playing against another player is the only real test. So it isn't that big of surprise to me for you to say that once he started playing an opponent his speed didn't seem as high. For me it wouldn't be that big of a deal because you didn't loose that much when he quit, if you started out at 200 a set then I would be pissed. Then again, as you stated if I start out at 200 bucks a set, you make a set time or number of sets. So I think it was just the fact you weren't playing for much, so for 1 the guy didn't feel that bad quitting, and two since you were playing someone so cheap that is exactly the kind of person who might do exactly what he did.
 
blah blah said:
In another thread going on right now, someone is asking whether it's alright to quit winner... in his situation of six hours and $700 later. There are a lot of people offering their own habits and opinions on this, the most notable being that it's always okay to quit, at any time. Rather than hijack his thread, I thought I'd offer my own story with the more general question: isn't there an assumption of having some gamble if you accept a gamble? I know I didn't quite say that right. Please don't knock me and my story just because the money's cheap and we two players suck. There is a principle.

So I approached someone I'd seen for weeks at no less than three different poolrooms in town, sometimes even hanging out with very, very respected and accomplished players. That night I was with the girls on my league team, who all wanted to play "loser sits down" one-on-one 8ball with five girls on one table, and I was bored stiff thinking that way of "practicing" was just making us all even worse. So I asked this guy on the next table if he wanted to play cheap sets of 9ball- race to five for ten.

"You must think you can beat me, now that you've been watching me. That's why you asked me."
"No, I noticed you're getting warmed up- you were missing when you came in, and now you're not." I seriously didn't care if I was out- matched: at $10 a pop I was happy to pay for hours of cheap lessons from this guy who rolled with the greats.

He accepts the bet. It's not a total embarrassment- he beats me 5-3 after accidentally flying the nine on the hill, and after my teammates get into a long hissy girl argument about whether to stay and practice on the 9ft table, or go to a bar. (That was distracting- our co- captain got mad and finally told our captain, "Nobody here even cares if you go home or not!")

So even after losing 5-3, I figured he wasn't nearly as good as I had initially assumed, and thought I might have a long, entertaining night ahead of NOT being stomped, but playing fairly evenly. Especially since my teammates had left.

After he makes the final nine, I ask to go again. He says sure, but now let's play for five.

"For five? I can't break even for five."
"I gotta come away with something."
"How 'bout you come away with twenty if you beat me?"
"No, let's just play for five."
"If I can't even make my money back, why don't we just quit now?"
"Okay."
"Have you ever gambled before?"
"No, not really. You're the first person to ask me."

I know some of you are going to say I should have specified the number of sets, what time we were going home, everything. But Sheesh. It was so cheap it was friendly. It was the Jointed Cue. The guy hangs out with some of the NorCal greats, and was seen recently at three different poolrooms. I wasn't messing with a loud, drunk, unknown banger at a local bar betting wads of unseen cash.

I just can't get over his line, "I gotta come away with something."

I guess I just needed to rant. In my own thread.
Click to expand...

Dude, don't feel bad. I was playing a known player in Texas who asked me to play some games of 9 ball 20 a game, I replied why don't we play some sets. He says ok race to 4 for $40 and after losing three hill hill sets I said we gotta make these longer races. HE says ok we'll play races to 6 then. He asks what I want to play for and I say the 40 is good still, I just want some longer sets. After I beat him 6-3, he quits and says that he had already intended on quiting and that's why he asked me how much I wanted to play the longer race for. Of course when he asked me he didn't say this is gonna be my last set.

He had also on a previous set when I got on the hill, had given me a loose rack and stated that he tried to tell me not to hit it, but I couldn't hear him over my head phones. Of course he didn't wave his cue in front of the rack or anything and it happened to be on the hill and didn't offer to rerack it after I broke either.

I'm not going to say who it was, but he also bought me in the Calcutta the next day and offered to split it with me, which I still owe Big Truck on. (I'll send you the money as soon as I get home tommorrow Big Truck)...
 
blah blah said:
In another thread going on right now, someone is asking whether it's alright to quit winner... in his situation of six hours and $700 later. There are a lot of people offering their own habits and opinions on this, the most notable being that it's always okay to quit, at any time. Rather than hijack his thread, I thought I'd offer my own story with the more general question: isn't there an assumption of having some gamble if you accept a gamble? I know I didn't quite say that right. Please don't knock me and my story just because the money's cheap and we two players suck. There is a principle.

So I approached someone I'd seen for weeks at no less than three different poolrooms in town, sometimes even hanging out with very, very respected and accomplished players. That night I was with the girls on my league team, who all wanted to play "loser sits down" one-on-one 8ball with five girls on one table, and I was bored stiff thinking that way of "practicing" was just making us all even worse. So I asked this guy on the next table if he wanted to play cheap sets of 9ball- race to five for ten.

"You must think you can beat me, now that you've been watching me. That's why you asked me."
"No, I noticed you're getting warmed up- you were missing when you came in, and now you're not." I seriously didn't care if I was out- matched: at $10 a pop I was happy to pay for hours of cheap lessons from this guy who rolled with the greats.

He accepts the bet. It's not a total embarrassment- he beats me 5-3 after accidentally flying the nine on the hill, and after my teammates get into a long hissy girl argument about whether to stay and practice on the 9ft table, or go to a bar. (That was distracting- our co- captain got mad and finally told our captain, "Nobody here even cares if you go home or not!")

So even after losing 5-3, I figured he wasn't nearly as good as I had initially assumed, and thought I might have a long, entertaining night ahead of NOT being stomped, but playing fairly evenly. Especially since my teammates had left.

After he makes the final nine, I ask to go again. He says sure, but now let's play for five.

"For five? I can't break even for five."
"I gotta come away with something."
"How 'bout you come away with twenty if you beat me?"
"No, let's just play for five."
"If I can't even make my money back, why don't we just quit now?"
"Okay."
"Have you ever gambled before?"
"No, not really. You're the first person to ask me."

I know some of you are going to say I should have specified the number of sets, what time we were going home, everything. But Sheesh. It was so cheap it was friendly. It was the Jointed Cue. The guy hangs out with some of the NorCal greats, and was seen recently at three different poolrooms. I wasn't messing with a loud, drunk, unknown banger at a local bar betting wads of unseen cash.

I just can't get over his line, "I gotta come away with something."

I guess I just needed to rant. In my own thread.
Click to expand...

I think I'd have tried to beat him twice and get even as it sounds like ya'll were evenly matched and it would have been good practice anyway.....If I didn't leave with the girlies. I've dumped a local tourney match a few times to go meet up with this girl I know a few times. Sounds crazy right? haha not if you saw the texts I was getting!:p :D


I play a few guys I know on the regular cheap like that btw. Races to 5 for $5 or $10, maybe a race to 7 or 9 for $20. None of us are future world beaters(whirrled beaters perhaps? lol) we just enjoy the presure of a lil' sweat bet and we play harder than if we were just over in the corner playing for nothing and bsing.
 
Wow, that might be one of the worst nit stories I've ever heard. I mean, obviously the guy was completely clueless having never gambled before but you should try to convey to him that you are not a casino and that it's considered polite to allow someone the opportunity to win their money back. If there is a time constraint, if he had to be somewhere, it's a different story but to want to change the bet to assure he'd hold on to some of your cash is just plain rude. If he still insisted, I would have quit him.
 
Usually I don't get mad if a guy quits winner. Part of learning how to match up is to find players that will at least lose what you are willing to lose.

How is this for nitty!

Years ago I played a guy and he got off to a great start and rolled out to being up 9 games. I battled back and when we got even I figured that he was through. When he quit he had the gall to ask for a spot!
I thought he was joking but he was serious. I was boiling and told myself and him that I would never play him again.
 
"If you can quit loser you can quit winner" - smart player

Anyone can quit at any time, don't be sore when you lose, and try not to get punched in the mouth when you quit after winning the first set for $500.

It's bad sportsmanship, but what pool players do you know that are good sportsman?

edit: just saw this post was over $10... just say 'thank you for the game' and walk away.
 
I think my problem is I dont know when to quit. Everybody quits before I do, winners or losers. I dont play very high but I never try to lower a bet no matter if im up or down, that is a nit move and shows no gamble. Technically he didnt really quit on you but its kinda the same as dropping the bet. Id say play him again if you think you can beat him. The only problem is if you do beat him he might never play you again. If you know you cant beat him, he seems like bad action and your better off looking elswhere for a mentor.
 
I have a different kind of nit story. I was playing league one night and a guy who had watched us play for a while asked if anyone wanted to play. All of my teammates immediately ran to me so I asked the guy what he wanted to play for. He says $100 a game and all my teammates are getting nervous. I say ok and he goes to the ATM and comes back but only wants to play a race to 3 8-ball for $100. I do it, win the first two games and the guy asks out for $50 because he couldn't win. I let him out for $60 because he really had no chance and one of my teammates tells me "Why can't I get games like that?" This guy asked all of them FIRST but none of them would play an unknown player. After they all knew he couldn't play, then they wanted to "gamble".

Now my friend who was mad he didn't get the game talks the guy into playing $10 a game and decides to lay down and try to hustle the guy. The guy wins the first two games and quits $20 winner. I lauged until I almost cried.
 
The guy you played and lost to, is not experienced in money games. It is kind of an unwritten rule to allow the player that is down on their money to say when the games are finished. There are 2 reasons for this: one reason is to allow the person to win their money back; the other reason is for the winning player to continue to win more money.

If you were playing someone that was trying to take your bankroll, he would have lost the first 2 sets. This will give you a warm feeling of all that money you won, and the thought that this guy is having an off night. Then, he says lets play for twice the bet. You think, I beat him twice. He's not that good. I can beat him. Then, he wins the next set, and he's even....and now the bet is higher. So, he can win more of your money.

If you want to improve your game without losing a lot of money, play league and try to win every game/match. Sometimes you will play against high skill level players that would normally cost you hundreds.
 
okinawa77 said:
It is kind of an unwritten rule to allow the player that is down on their money to say when the games are finished.
Click to expand...

My advice is to either make that rule written or don't complain when they quit.
 
Some players will play and win the first set for something small like $20, and then quit. How would you like someone to play you a set and take your money and run?....without a chance for you to win it back?

If you want to play one set and quit, that is fine, but you should make that clear at the beginning.
 
AZE said:
"If you can quit loser you can quit winner" - smart player

Anyone can quit at any time, don't be sore when you lose, and try not to get punched in the mouth when you quit after winning the first set for $500.

It's bad sportsmanship, but what pool players do you know that are good sportsman?

edit: just saw this post was over $10... just say 'thank you for the game' and walk away.
Click to expand...
Rep to you for walking away. Forgot to throw in a belly laugh at this crap, though.
 
okinawa77 said:
Some players will play and win the first set for something small like $20, and then quit. How would you like someone to play you a set and take your money and run?....without a chance for you to win it back?

If you want to play one set and quit, that is fine, but you should make that clear at the beginning.
Click to expand...

If they beat me I would feel fine about it. That is why it is called gambling. I lost, I am fine with it. I think you have it backwards. You should specify if you are going to play more than one set. When someone asks me if I want to play a race to 9 for $50, that is exactly what I am agreeing to. Without agreeing to more sets in the beginning, nobody can get mad if someone quits.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Wow, that might be one of the worst nit stories I've ever heard. I mean, obviously the guy was completely clueless having never gambled before but you should try to convey to him that you are not a casino and that it's considered polite to allow someone the opportunity to win their money back. If there is a time constraint, if he had to be somewhere, it's a different story but to want to change the bet to assure he'd hold on to some of your cash is just plain rude. If he still insisted, I would have quit him.
Click to expand...

I concur! You should have let him have the $10- not played another round- as soon as he let you know he was expecting to quit winner.
 
easy-e said:
If they beat me I would feel fine about it. That is why it is called gambling. I lost, I am fine with it. I think you have it backwards. You should specify if you are going to play more than one set. When someone asks me if I want to play a race to 9 for $50, that is exactly what I am agreeing to. Without agreeing to more sets in the beginning, nobody can get mad if someone quits.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying....interesting perspective.

You make a valid point.

Where I first started playing for money, the winner usually asks the loser if he wants to play another. So, I guess it just became automatic to think that the games/matches would continue until the loser quits. I've just never seen someone on the winning side quit. I have actually seen players on the winning side continue to play even when they didn't want to play anymore, just because the loser wanting to keep playing. Sometimes, they would even change locations because the place there at, closes.

So, I guess I got it stuck in my head that, if you're ahead, then you keep playing until the guy that is down, gives up.....as a courtesy.....unless you absolutely have to quit while ahead for some good reason.

You have definitely given me something to think about.
 
If one player has to play until the other person breaks even then it isn't gambling is it?
 
how about this

I'm playing this guy some cheap 1p. He proposed 1p for small amount a game and I agree since I feel we are a good match. We start playing and I get up 3 games right off the bat so he asks to adjust which I agree and we play 8-7. After about 3 hours I'm up 7 games and let him know the I only can play a few more games and he goes off on me telling me I should have told him sooner and I'm robbing him. I thought I was given him enough notice that I could only play a few more. He could have asked for more of a spot or raised the bet and I would have as long as it wasn't crazy. He is the one that suggested everything- that we play, that we play 1p, that we are going to gamble and the amount, and then when he is down and suggests a spot I agree. How did I do anything wrong?
 
We each of us have a personal, even quirky relationship with our own money that has to be respected, if not understood. I totally get that.

Some people agree with me: that nit was not going to part with anything more than the initial bet of just 10 bucks, and once he won THAT, he wasn't going to let but half of that ever get out of his hands. ("I gotta come away with something.")

Other people disagree, and say that we are each little slot machines, and if you're only good for one pull or MAYBE two, that should be respected whenever you quit, however much notice is or is not given.

I think what's different between the two standpoints is the idea that there is anything more to it than the money: there's an interest in the competition, the pool sets, improving or understanding your current stamina, forming an understanding of your game and of the opponent's...

Hell yeah, I quit after one set when he lowered the bet- he was only in it for the cost of, say, a pack of cigarettes and the next day's bus pass (what can you buy for $10 now? I had to think hard for that example.)

I say when it's only $10, it's not about the money. It's completely about all of those extras... That's because my $10 would just otherwise be spent on useless, totally unremembered crap (well, except taco bell- you remember that), BUT that $10 to him bought me some new lessons: don't play him again; people can and will lower the bet after they win a little; we all have a different level of importance attached to chump change; and possibly even: win the first set. You can't start out cold, relaxed, and distracted.

I think that's why his line "I gotta come away with something" pissed me off so badly: even if you lose you come away with lessons.
 
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