Envelope Case Feeler

PistolPat said:
after I saw Matcase's envelope cases here with al the tooling and high quality build and protection, theres no doubt that I will be getting a couple made for the road and my collection
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Certainly. Marc builds an envelope case that is as close to Chas Clements as it gets, some that own both think that his are better even. The artistry is undeniable and the execution is way up there.

If you notice the cases he builds that are really a leather box with a flap top, more square shaped, he has solved the gap problem somewhat by making arcs at the top of the opening on the sides.

I did something similar on this case to eliminate the gap. It didn't turn out as nice as I intended it to but it got the job done. I have played around with more ways to do it since then.
16.JPG


My questions are more along the lines of construction. Decoration that is outstanding can be achieved on any case since the case is just the canvas.

I read this quote recently which also is one of the things that prompted me to start this topic;

"When I am thinking of a solution I never think of beauty, but when the solution is found and it is not beautiful then I know it's not right." R. Buckminster Fuller (I think that's the right quote and I am too lazy to go and find it again and copy/paste it)

I have said many times that I think about case making all the time. Sadly, I am obsessed by it. When Dennis Searing, at the ICCS on TAR, talked about being too slow to deliver cues because he is always fiddling with the technique so that he can build a better cue I understood him exactly.

So now that I am getting requests to do this style and that style I really do appreciate the input. This thread has given me a few new ideas actually and if I bring those to fruition then perhaps JB Cases can make the flap and eliminate the gap. :-)

I don't know yet if the solution will be beautiful.
 
I just bought a new envelope but not to happy with it. To big and gaps at the top and nothing but one big hole for the cue. The case im looking for is one i saw 20 years ago from a case maker in memphis tenn. It was one long peice of leather and it folded in half and it had leather like shoe laces on each side of it and just laced up to the top and then tied, it was very thin and would hold one butt and 2 shafts. I havent seen one like it before. I remembr seeing miz having one like it in one of his books.
 
Enevelope Case

There is something interesting about an envelop case where it appears more like a curved-bottom quiver for arrows.

http://www.ravenswoodleather.com/Equestrian/elvenquiver.html


Perhaps the envelop case can be closed on both the top and the bottom, with a zipper (or double zipper) for side access to take out cues or what holds the cues. Close both sides like the right side of the quiver in link below. This link also shows - in a way - side access. I leave it to you to consider whether cue butt and shaft should come out of the side access from soft material or tubes.

http://www.hidehandler.com/images/sidekick III 2.JPG

Two (2) piece tubes could lift up at an angle or be capped out of this side access. Tube might have to be attached on one (1) end so they only pivot out at an angle, but do not come completely out.

Alternatively, Hager case type sleeves in tubes could be used.

Softer materials could be used as well.

A fitted interior leather scabbord could be used. (This is similar to putting your extremely lightweight soft case or envelop case inside a heavy exterior case.)



If a envelop style case is limited in the number of cues it can carry (1x2 or 2x4), then saving weight is not that important to me. A comfortable well constructed wide shoulder-sling is important. Look at heavy leather rifle slings.

http://www.levergunleather.com/images/daledsling1.jpg

Here is an interesting idea:

http://www.hidehandler.com/images/fox back quiver 72.jpg

http://www.hidehandler.com/fur_quivers.htm
 
John,

I'm not a fan of the envelope cases. What I would like to see though is a high quality tooled leather semi-hard case. Silver Fox makes a vinyl version (BR-2) that I always liked, but hate vinyl. Lots of pockets and plenty of room for 4 cues at less than 5lbs.

Anyway, didn't mean to get side-tracked.

Jim
 
cliffy said:
John

Any case that does not have some layer of protection between shafts and butt is pretty useless. Whether is be leather or cloth interleaving something is better than nothing

I have a folded over Justis envelope with nothing inside and don't see how for the life of me someone would want to stick a high dollar cue in there. Looks like Scratch City would be the end result

I will say an evelope is a very classy look, one needs to be designed though with cue finish protection in mind

Clif Watkins
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The envelope style case is exactly what it is...no more ....no less. It was designed with one thing in mind.... a no nonsense, lightweight case to pick up, put under your arm and go. It is certainly not a case you would use for maximum protection but if the case is designed correctly to gently cradle one butt and 2 shafts, I can guarantee the cues will not get scratched from the flesh side of the leather or from the cue and shafts being in close proximity. I have personally carried $5000 cues in our Road Runner case for the past 15 years and never once experienced cue damage from the case.
 
Jack

You are one of the Masters and I have great confidence in what you say, plus I own more than a few of your cases. I might not give a $5000-10000 cue a try run in one, but I'll put your old Tucker in there with 2 of the 3 shafts and give her a run.

How do I load it tips down, joint down??

Clif



Jack Justis said:
The envelope style case is exactly what it is...no more ....no less. It was designed with one thing in mind.... a no nonsense, lightweight case to pick up, put under your arm and go. It is certainly not a case you would use for maximum protection but if the case is designed correctly to gently cradle one butt and 2 shafts, I can guarantee the cues will not get scratched from the flesh side of the leather or from the cue and shafts being in close proximity. I have personally carried $5000 cues in our Road Runner case for the past 15 years and never once experienced cue damage from the case.
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When I want to carry multiple cues, I use my Jim Murnak 3x6, but I also wanted to be able to carry one cue in a case that I could stick under the seat of my truck. For me, the answer was a 1x2 envelope case made of English bridle leather by Brian Bonner of Nittany Leather. The case is lightweight and built like a tank. The leather is extremely thick, and the interior is made up of protective tubes, so you get the best of both worlds.

Joe

BrianBonner1x2envelopecase.jpg
[/IMG]
 
rigmaster said:
I have a 1945 or so willie hoppe professional I put it in a Engles (butt down) fits with no problem!Sam Engles made nice cases like Fellini except a little larger to hold 2 butts and shafts if you want!Covered them with Elephant hide,EEL,full quil Ostrich,Kangaroo,tooled Leather,SHARK,hair on cow,Stingray,Lizard and I dont have the Crocadile,Zebra,or Reindeer.Get you one I like my 28 that I have!!!!Ron
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Thanks rigmaster, i looked them up and they are a nice looking case. I may have to get one.
 
A great guy to deal with.

Bamacues said:
When I want to carry multiple cues, I use my Jim Murnak 3x6, but I also wanted to be able to carry one cue in a case that I could stick under the seat of my truck. For me, the answer was a 1x2 envelope case made of English bridle leather by Brian Bonner of Nittany Leather. The case is lightweight and built like a tank. The leather is extremely thick, and the interior is made up of protective tubes, so you get the best of both worlds.

Joe

BrianBonner1x2envelopecase.jpg
[/IMG]
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RangerCap aka Brian Bonner, aka Nittany Leather does wonderful envelopes and his workmanship is just wonderful. He also does envelopes with , and with out pockets.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
RangerCap aka Brian Bonner, aka Nittany Leather does wonderful envelopes and his workmanship is just wonderful. He also does envelopes with , and with out pockets.
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Right...I had this case made to my requirements. I did not want any pockets or a shoulder strap, all of which he offers. I wanted it straight and clean so it would easily slide under the seat of my pickup. The quality was super...really thick leather and VERY reasonably priced.
Joe
 
I love the case Brian did that you showed Joe. I just don't like having an opening in the top of the case where crap can get into the case. Of course 95% of the time this probably won't matter at all.

So what I can see so far is that the general consensus is that people like the sleeker look, the interior should be protective of the finish at least with divided sections for the cue parts, the gap at the flap is not that big an issue for most.

Well as you all know any case I make will definitely be padded and divided in regards to the cue parts. There may be no danger to the finish from the flesh side of veg tan leather but as Burton Spain once said, the pet alligator might not eat the family dog but the dog is sure happier when the alligator is gone.

I kind of like Dean's suggestion of of using cue sleeves as the insert. The reason I like this is because last year I created an interior that is removable. Essentially each part had an individual sleeve that could be removed so that the case could be reconfigured as needed. This actually worked fairly well on the prototype I did but I felt that it's still a little cumbersome for most users. So, with that in mind I could see something like that as individual padded bags that could be stored in a larger case and pulled out and inserted in an envelope case as needed. In fact this gives me an idea of how to finish a dealer case I have been working on. Thanks Dean!

Of course pockets, decoration, shoulder straps, handles and such can be added or left off as requested.

The flap gap? I have to do something to plug it. I think that I have it figured out.

Jhendri: Here are a few semi-hard cases that we did that might be what you are looking for, JB Case Butterfly cases

And here are a few models that we did for Sterling in the soft case line that might also be what you are looking for.
3x6 with two jump handle sleeves.
STS0K3-2LS.JPG
STS0K3-1FS.JPG

STS0K3(N3)-INTERIOR.JPG


2x4 with one jump handle sleeve.
STS6N3-1FS.JPG

STS6N3-2LS.JPG

STS6K3(N3)-INTERIOR.JPG


Well, I will show you all the leather envelope style cases I come up with soon. Judging by the response and the pms I can see that I should go ahead and make this style. Thanks for the input.

John
 
On this case is the cue protected from metal from the snap on the body of the case? I mean that since there is no liner is is possible for the metal and the cue to come into direct contact with each other?
 

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John,

Those butterfly cases are amazing and exactly what I'm looking for. Please pm me a price without all the heavy engraving, just some classic tooling.

Thanks!

Jim
 
robertno1pool said:
There is something interesting about an envelop case where it appears more like a curved-bottom quiver for arrows.

http://www.ravenswoodleather.com/Equestrian/elvenquiver.html


Perhaps the envelop case can be closed on both the top and the bottom, with a zipper (or double zipper) for side access to take out cues or what holds the cues. Close both sides like the right side of the quiver in link below. This link also shows - in a way - side access. I leave it to you to consider whether cue butt and shaft should come out of the side access from soft material or tubes.

http://www.hidehandler.com/images/sidekick III 2.JPG

Two (2) piece tubes could lift up at an angle or be capped out of this side access. Tube might have to be attached on one (1) end so they only pivot out at an angle, but do not come completely out.

Alternatively, Hager case type sleeves in tubes could be used.

Softer materials could be used as well.

A fitted interior leather scabbord could be used. (This is similar to putting your extremely lightweight soft case or envelop case inside a heavy exterior case.)



If a envelop style case is limited in the number of cues it can carry (1x2 or 2x4), then saving weight is not that important to me. A comfortable well constructed wide shoulder-sling is important. Look at heavy leather rifle slings.

http://www.levergunleather.com/images/daledsling1.jpg

Here is an interesting idea:

http://www.hidehandler.com/images/fox back quiver 72.jpg

http://www.hidehandler.com/fur_quivers.htm
Click to expand...

These are pretty cool. Most of you may not know it but Jim Murnak also does quivers that are awesome.

The thing with quivers is that they don't need to have a lid on them. If they did then they face the same technical issues with the flap gap.

Rusty Melton's cases are essentially the teardrop quivers made in the right size for cues. He has solved the flap issue by making an oversized fitted cap.

I could do that but I am trying not to make a closure that is wider than the body on this type of case.

Did you get my last email with the new sketches?
 
JB Cases said:
as Burton Spain once said, the pet alligator might not eat the family dog but the dog is sure happier when the alligator is gone.
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John

I really like that Spain quote, do you know what situation Spain was referring to?

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
John

I really like that Spain quote, do you know what situation Spain was referring to?

Thanks

Kevin
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Yes. He was referring to using the full splice to join the handle to the forearm as the solution to eliminating any chance of the cue developing a buzzing sound. He said that some cue makers have claimed to have eliminated the possibility of a cue developing a buzz while using the tenon/pin method of joining the parts but the pet alligator may not eat the family dog but the dog is happier when the alligator is gone.

I believe that you can find this information and the exact quote on Joel Hercek's website as well.
 
Bamacues said:
When I want to carry multiple cues, I use my Jim Murnak 3x6, but I also wanted to be able to carry one cue in a case that I could stick under the seat of my truck. For me, the answer was a 1x2 envelope case made of English bridle leather by Brian Bonner of Nittany Leather. The case is lightweight and built like a tank. The leather is extremely thick, and the interior is made up of protective tubes, so you get the best of both worlds.

Joe

BrianBonner1x2envelopecase.jpg
[/IMG]
Click to expand...

That's a really nice looking case. It does need any tooling, it has a very classy, understated look to it.
 
JB Cases said:
Yes. He was referring to using the full splice to join the handle to the forearm as the solution to eliminating any chance of the cue developing a buzzing sound. He said that some cue makers have claimed to have eliminated the possibility of a cue developing a buzz while using the tenon/pin method of joining the parts but the pet alligator may not eat the family dog but the dog is happier when the alligator is gone.

I believe that you can find this information and the exact quote on Joel Hercek's website as well.
Click to expand...

John

Thanks again. I didn't know Hercek had a web site, I'm reading some Spain info there right now.

Thanks again

Kevin
 
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