Fact is there are several cuemakers that have done that sort of thing. Difference is you dont hear about them cause they dont feel a need to discuss it in public.mooseman said:
Eric Crisp - Sugartree cues REVIEW
- Thread starter pharaoh68
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mooseman said:
Yep I cant feel sorry for someone that needs money for mortgages and engagement rings but is on here buying high dollar cues.
Feeding the family and keeping a roof should be the first priority, not flipping cues.
pharaoh68
Banned
mooseman said:
Don't be so bold as to tell me what cues are and aren't for me. I have played with Sugartrees and I like them. However, I wanted a SPECIFIC cue. I didn't want to change the taper or adjust the balance point or anything like that. I just wanted the design to be mine, with woods that I chose. Eric agreed. In fact, when the order changed after the first set of lies that the 'cue was coming along nicely' and that 'the wood moved', Eric suggested the type of burl to use. So don't tell me I was switching up Eric's specs. I wasn't.
As for having priorities? Remember, the delivery date was 2+ YEARS AGO!!!! I wasn't paying for engagement rings then. And the prices then were a fraction of what they are now!!!
Just remember, despite your love for Eric and his cues, that doesn't mean he can do no wrong either. In this case, he did. Lets not lose sight of that and lets not try to to make ME out to be the villain here.
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pharaoh68
Banned
powerlineman80 said:Yep I cant feel sorry for someone that needs money for mortgages and engagement rings but is on here buying high dollar cues.
Check my history here. I have sold EVERYTHING I have. My prized Mottey playing cues. Hercek. A high dollar Bender. I'm now playing with a beat up sneaky. This irder was placed WELL BEFORE the notion of an engagment ring came up or before I took on a mortgage. The order was changed before that too. Remember, Eric is MORE THAN TWO YEARS LATE!!!! Fukk!!! I wasn't even dating her when I changed the order!!!
pharaoh68 said:
I have never said he was perfect. I just disagree with villifying someone with such conviction. Also I don't believe it is bold to state that sometimes a specific cuemakers cue just isn't right for all people. My impression is that you have tried a few Sugartrees and they did not meet your needs so you are still in search for the holy grail. In my experience his cues all hit the same.
Don't get me wrong I have changed out tips on my Sugartree in an attempt to see what works best for me. I have not changed out the whole cue. If I am fortunate enough to pick up another Sugartree I probably will but at this time I don't need to. Between my Sugartree and Hunter Classic I have all the players I need.......
mooseman said:
pharaoh68 said:
Mooseman, pharaoh wanted a specific cue i.e. design.
I believe cue has no holy Grail. They is always a good and a bad in a cue. Never 100% perfect.
I have deal with pharoah68 before. He is all good in my book. Not all sellers are willing to wait for weeks for payment. But this guy did, even when they are someone out there wanting the cue.
It was just bad when thing turn out this way, between a good guy like pharaoh68 and a cuemaker that makes a monster playing cue.
I have deal with both and I know the situation.
Eric Crisp, I believe is on a trip. Maybe he can rectify the situation when he is back.
pharaoh68 said:
Well why didnt you just cancel the order??? You had no money involved.
I agree two years is b.s. but you had nothing in it, so why was it so hard to get out even when you had a mortgage and engagement rings?
pharaoh68
Banned
powerlineman80 said:
Listen-
My personal life and how I manage my money is none of your concern. Frankly, its none of anyone's concern.
And even though NO aspect of my personal life is your business, I will answer your question. Two and a half years ago, I wasn't dating the woman I am with now and, at that time, I pegged myself as remaining single for the rest of my lilfe. Cues were my thing. I had many. Bluegrass. Motteys. Hercek. Benders. You name it. I never thought I was going to find someone that I would want to marry or, more to the point, that would want to marry me. So, while I loved cues, I had heard good things about Eric's work and I knew that since he was relatively unknown, I placed an order that, at the time, would have cost me several hundred dollars as opposed to $1500 plus! So I figured, what the hell. I'll give it a shot.
Then, I met someone that had me right away and after a while, I knew that she was the one. So, I did what I had to do. I sold the things I truly loved. Benders. Herceks. All of my Motteys (including my playing cue that I SWORE I would never sell). I kept a beat up sneaky to play with on the rare occassions I get the chance to play.
Nowadays, my priorities are much different than they were to years ago. Its fiance first, mortgage second, and cues rank somewhere towards the bottom. But when I see a decent deal I assess my financial situation and I see if I can make it work. In this case, with the price quoted I could easily make it work. But that didn't matter did it? Because I never got anything to pay for!!!! I was told I would. I was told it was in the works. I was told pics would be coming. I was told the cue was coming along nicely. I was told a slew of things that were nothing but lies, as Eric admitted.
So, lets recap. I placed an order when money was flowing more freely - and the price of the order was cheap. Times got tighter. The economy went in the shitter. I took on big expenses. But, I assessed my financial situation and, while I got rid of the high dollar cues and cancelled some high dollar cue orders (another Mottey, a Haley order that I gave to a friend), I realized that I could still make this order work. So I tried.
...but there was one problem. ERIC DIDN'T TRY! He wanted me to think he did. He wanted me to think that everything was a-ok and it would be just a little longer. But he didn't try. So there I was waiting for a cue that I could afford. A good cue. A solid cue. A cue that I had designed and that Eric agreed to. But it never showed despite the 'promise' that it would.
Eric brushed me off. Eric admitted to it. Eric took an order, didn't deliver, fed me nothing but bull-shit, and then got defensive when his business practices were called into question. Then, Eric justified his actions by saying that he was just 'playing peek-aboo' with me and that he had no problem doing so. So in short, this hero to so many took an order, lied about it repeatedly, had no intention of filling it, but passed over it to fill dealer orders and other customer orders.
All of this, and I'm the ass-hole here?!?!
You people are ridiculous. As for my personal life and my personal finances, I won't go into discussion of that anymore. Don't proceed to tell me what my priorities are and what they should be. I know what my priorities are. They are exactly as they should be. If they weren't, I'd still have thousands of dollars worth of cues and no fiance. I'd be living in the same apartment. But times change and with it, so did my priorities. But let me ask you... when an opportunity presents itself and you can make work, why shouldn't you try???
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I don't know how pharaoh is interpreting the post he refers to as Eric admitting lying to him, I don't see it. From what I am reading in these posts, it sounds like the customer from hell. The guy who calls and e-mails every week to see where his cue is. The kind of guy I would tell to take a hike. But somebody as nice as Eric would just say-yeah, your cue is coming along-and hope he gets the hint. When he finally realizes he is not going to get a cue, then he goes off the deep end with this thread. Thats just my read on it, I don't know the specifics from Erics' side. Now he will probably start blasting me but I don't care, Eric is a good friend, I can take the hit.
Pharaoh68...what are you trying to achieve by your posts? You must have a goal or agenda. It sounds like some folks have had negative experiences with Eric. More folks have had positive experiences with Eric.
You're going to find some folks agree with your opinion and some folks disagree.
I've reread your original post/link and I don't get it. He explained the wood moved (several times). He did not lie to you. Did you want to see pictures of a block of wood. He could have sent you pictures of anything just to shut you up. Of course you'd still be waiting for you cue.
You are right he probably isn't much of a businessman. If he was a businessman folks couldn't take advantage of him as they often do. I know Eric only wants to put out a quality product. He is very precise in the product he puts out. He is a craftsman and his standards are high. That's why he does what he does. That's why his cues are so high in demand.
Did you see the TAR interview? Maybe his priorities have changed and he is becoming more cynical. Having talked with Eric I believe he will continue to build cues and just won't take SPECIAL orders. Guess what he will sell those cues and he won't have to deal with this BS. As a cue comes available it will sell. He will continue to take care of folks.
You have made your point so get over it. You don't have to ever buy another one of his cues or deal with his questionable business practises. I doubt very seriously if he would ever build a cue for you anyway with the way you are slagging him off. I know if I were him I would never build a cue for you.
You seem to be resolved to destroy his reputation with your pettiness. At the end of the day you did NOT lose any money and it didn't cost you a dime. Life is way too short to be so vindictive.
If the same thing happened to me I would vent once then that would be it. I'd chalk it down to experience and then drop it. So I will take my own advise now, I've vented and now I will drop it because this is now a waste of my time and energy!!!!
However to your credit I always say, "It's better to be Pee'd Off than Pee'd On!!!!"
You're going to find some folks agree with your opinion and some folks disagree.
I've reread your original post/link and I don't get it. He explained the wood moved (several times). He did not lie to you. Did you want to see pictures of a block of wood. He could have sent you pictures of anything just to shut you up. Of course you'd still be waiting for you cue.
You are right he probably isn't much of a businessman. If he was a businessman folks couldn't take advantage of him as they often do. I know Eric only wants to put out a quality product. He is very precise in the product he puts out. He is a craftsman and his standards are high. That's why he does what he does. That's why his cues are so high in demand.
Did you see the TAR interview? Maybe his priorities have changed and he is becoming more cynical. Having talked with Eric I believe he will continue to build cues and just won't take SPECIAL orders. Guess what he will sell those cues and he won't have to deal with this BS. As a cue comes available it will sell. He will continue to take care of folks.
You have made your point so get over it. You don't have to ever buy another one of his cues or deal with his questionable business practises. I doubt very seriously if he would ever build a cue for you anyway with the way you are slagging him off. I know if I were him I would never build a cue for you.
You seem to be resolved to destroy his reputation with your pettiness. At the end of the day you did NOT lose any money and it didn't cost you a dime. Life is way too short to be so vindictive.
If the same thing happened to me I would vent once then that would be it. I'd chalk it down to experience and then drop it. So I will take my own advise now, I've vented and now I will drop it because this is now a waste of my time and energy!!!!
However to your credit I always say, "It's better to be Pee'd Off than Pee'd On!!!!"
pharaoh68
Banned
mission said:
You are a moron. Plain and simple.
You can't see how I am interpereting what Eric said as lying to me?!?!? Maybe you should follow the link in my original post to the other forum where Eric himself stated that I did NOT contact him every week. And if I had, maybe then I would have gotten results. Instead, I checked in once every month or every two months. And in the meantime, Eric played 'peek-a-boo' with me (his words; not mine) as a way of brushing me off. THAT is what I call lying. He wasn't hard at work on the cue as he said he was. The cue was never built. If it was, my friend who ordered the sister cue to mine at the exact same time would have had his by now. And nothing!!!!
I understand Eric is a friend and you want to defend him but your ignorance here is frightening.
And believe me. This is NOT going off the deep end. All you people are the same. You think that a cue review thread is only for happy customers to post positive things. Then when someone says something negative about someone else, stop the presses!!! He must be a lunatic. Well, this friend of yours is nothing more than a liar with a poor business ethic. Glad he's YOUR friend and not mine.
P.S.- It has come to my attention between originally posting this and making this edit as to who 'mission' really is. But I still stand by what I said above. Eric lied to me. You can't see how? Ask Eric. HE'LL TELL YOU!!!!! He already admitted it!!! I never hounded him. I didn't contact him every other day. I didn't contact him every other week. I checked in once in a while and gave him his space. I was patient. I was kind. And in return, I got fed lies and was gicen the run-around. How am I the bad guy here? Because I'nm blwing the whistle for others and saying "Buyer: BEWARE!"
If that's the case, fine. I'm the ass-hole. I don't mind it.
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pharaoh68
Banned
mooseman said:
This may be true. Some folks will agree and some folks won't. But why does that mean that I have to shut my mouth. If someone you showed a certain respect for made promises to you and never delivered, would you still be singing their praises or would you question that individual? If you would continue to love and respect them, you're a fool. As for my intentions here??? Its simple, and I've stated it several times over. I wanted to illustrate to people that despite what you and several others believe so deeply, Eric ain't the saint you all portray him to be. So why 6 pages of posts??? Because its like dealing with all the Kevin Varney loyalists. You people are blinded by your own bias that you can't even see the facts here.
mooseman said:
Yes. Eric explained the wood moved. Then he explained that he was starting again. Then ghe explained I'd get pictures. Then he explained a bunch of things. The most important thing that Eric explained that all of this was untrue and that he was just ducking me. Eric explained that if I was more persistent, perhaps I would have gotten results. Instead, I gave Eric the respect and the space needed to fulfill his obligation which, as a businessman, he should have done. But he chose not to. He chose to fill other orders AND he chose to lie to me by telling me mine was coming when in fact, it was NOT.
mooseman said:
His cues are in high demand because they play well and because he closed his list. But if he had no intention of filling the order, he should never have taken it. If plans changed and he wanted to cancel it, he should have done that instead of giving me the run-around.
mooseman said:
Except me, right? He'll take care of all the guys who jumped on the bandwagon. The dealers looking to make a profit. The guys who have heard about how great Sugartree cues are and have jumped on the bandwagon and placed an order. Meanwhile, someone like myself who talked up Eric's work for several years now and who got his order in early gets the shaft. Go figure.
mooseman said:
Actually, if you even followed this at all, you would know that Eric responded very publicly admitting to me that he was giving me the run around. He also said that he would agree to honor the order at the original price listed. It was at that point that I told Eric to take the order and shove it somewhere special because I refuse to put a dime in his pocket. So why all of this??? Well, at first, it was to illustrate that Eric is a horrific businessman. Then, it became more about trying to prove to all of you pathetic and blind followers that Eric is the villain here. Not me. Now? I don;t give a rat's ass. Several of you prove your ignorance by defending a man who admitted to lying. You in particular illustrate this ignorance by missing the facts and not doing your homework before adding your unwanted and unneeded opinions.
mooseman said:
You're right. Life is too short. I may only have a good 50-60 years left. And if I never said a word, I STILL would have gotten another 5 to 6 decades of lies and no cue from this SAINT you hold so high and mighty. You make me laugh.
mooseman said:
Good. Stop wasting your time and energy. Leave this subject alone. You've proven your ignorance one. Don't go further. You'll just wind up making yourself look even more foolish.
mooseman said:
Whah?!?!
What it means is, "It's better to be Pissed Off than Pissed On...."
Well you drew me back in. To the rest of you I appologize in advance.....
Pharoah....you are pretty good at passing out insults considering you don't really know the folks you are insulting. You choose to disagree with us as we disagree with you.... We just choose not to throw insults in your direction.
I don't recall anyone in their criticism of you calling you a "moron" or "asshole" or "fool". You just come off that way.....
Of course since our opinions don't really matter then you should care less and don't need to respond to this post. If our opinions do matter then I'm sure you will probably respond. Kind of a Catch-22!!!!
Again I appologize to everyone else on the forum because this is normally not my style.
Now I'm done.....
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pharaoh68
Banned
ok moose-
I'll admit it. You are right. Its out of place and out of line for me to call both you and mission names. That much I'll give you. But my attitude comes from the frustration of
A. Having been lied to and passed over without reason
B. Having been called a cry baby and continually having to defend myself to people who make judgments without even knowing the facts which are right there in black and white for all to read
C. Continually defending myself while others defend a man who admitted to giving me the run-around, all the while those same people defend Eric and bash me... the victim.
Maybe you're right. Maybe the name-calling is out of line.
...but so is taking sides in a dispute when you haven't bothered to read all the info that is right there in front of you.
If I hurt your feelings, I apologize. I was wrong. Question is can you admit that perhaps you jumped the gun a bit too?
I'll admit it. You are right. Its out of place and out of line for me to call both you and mission names. That much I'll give you. But my attitude comes from the frustration of
A. Having been lied to and passed over without reason
B. Having been called a cry baby and continually having to defend myself to people who make judgments without even knowing the facts which are right there in black and white for all to read
C. Continually defending myself while others defend a man who admitted to giving me the run-around, all the while those same people defend Eric and bash me... the victim.
Maybe you're right. Maybe the name-calling is out of line.
...but so is taking sides in a dispute when you haven't bothered to read all the info that is right there in front of you.
If I hurt your feelings, I apologize. I was wrong. Question is can you admit that perhaps you jumped the gun a bit too?
pharaoh68
Banned
mission said:
Wes-
If you read everything in this thread (and followed the posted link), you would see that Eric admitted to giving me the run-around. He also said outright that I was NOT one of those 'pain-in-the-ass' customers who constantly check in on the status of their cue. Checking in 4 times when your cue is not 1... not 2... not 3... but 30 months late.... well, if that makes me the bad guy than so be it.
Personally, I think your allegiance to Eric as a friend and as a fellow cuemaker is blinding you to the facts here. Eric promised and didn't deliver. What's more, he promised repeatedly he would and never had any intention of it. If that's acceptible business to you, well, then gfood luck to you with YOUR business.
I feel your pain, brother, I really do....but look at it on the bright side. At least you didn't lay out a deposit. I've still got upwards of $1000 on deposit with a top shelf cuemaker that has strung the order out to over 7 years now !!!! The experience has solidified one thing for me......no more deposits, period. Still holding on to some hope for this cue, though, keeping my fingers crossed and thinking positive thoughts. 
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