He wasn't .Fast Lenny said:IMO cuemaking isnt a hobby when your charging $2000 for a plain jane cue,its a business then.
The flippers did.
Eric Crisp - Sugartree cues REVIEW
- Thread starter pharaoh68
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The flippers did.
pharaoh68
Banned
Eric Wynne said:WaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaWaaaaaaaaa!!! Just buy something else , there is no magic in anybody' cue any where ... I have 42 years experience and they are all just chunks of wood , some are made to sell and other s are made to play with , if you are not wise enough to discern, take a dump in the woods and fall back in it, life's too short for any BS ... Play pool , have fun , make friends ... Eric and myself share names only but from my experience he does make a nice cue and he is a human just like us ... The greatest person on earth is nobody ...I hope this forum can weed out the whining and keep on the topic of pool and fun ...
Ok. First off, let me just flat out state that you are an ass. There's no two ways about that.
Secondly, its pretty obvious that you, like SOOOOOOOO many other people here on AZ are absolutely blind to the fact that NOT ALL opinions are going to be rave reviews singing the praises of someone until your lungs are fresh out of air!!! Sometimes, reviews are LESS than flattering. Sometimes, they're just flat out bad.
Now, seeing as how you're intelligent enough to be able to form a sentence and presumably turn on your computer and type (don't know - you may have had help there
) I would like to think that you would be smart enough to know that when you enter a forum with the word 'REVIEWS' in the title, perhaps not all of them are going to be positive. I guess I gave you too much credit when I assumed you might know that.All this being said, the facts here are still simple. I gave a review of a cuemaker and his cues. The cues are good. The cuemaker is a horrific businessman.
pharaoh68 said:Ok. First off, let me just flat out state that you are an ass. There's no two ways about that.
Secondly, its pretty obvious that you, like SOOOOOOOO many other people here on AZ are absolutely blind to the fact that NOT ALL opinions are going to be rave reviews singing the praises of someone until your lungs are fresh out of air!!! Sometimes, reviews are LESS than flattering. Sometimes, they're just flat out bad.
Now, seeing as how you're intelligent enough to be able to form a sentence and presumably turn on your computer and type (don't know - you may have had help there
All this being said, the facts here are still simple. I gave a review of a cuemaker and his cues. The cues are good. The cuemaker is a horrific businessman.
I would like to think that you would be smart enough to know that when you enter a forum with the word "REVIEWS" in the title, perhaps all of them are going to be REVIEWING a cue...which necessitates having one. Now...you said you've had Sugartrees in the past. Obviously you liked them, because you ordered one. However...after painstakingly scrolling through every page of the cue review forum...I can't see where you took the time to give your previous Sugartrees a good review...you know...after having actually had them in your hands, regardless of whether you got them on the secondary market, or straight from Eric. So...cues you liked and had...no review. A cue you never got to begin with...bad review.
I'm kind of disappointed that lenoxmjs deleted his post. Having dealt with Eric probably more than any of us combined...I'd have liked to have seen what he had to say.
NOW I'm done.
chaozzzsg said:
Correct. However...$2000 is QUITE the exaggeration. His "plain janes" have been going for anywhere from $900-$1400...with an exception here or there.
Sometimes it feels as though people blame the cuemaker for what his cues go for on the secondary market...and I don't quite understand that.
pharaoh68
Banned
Retail1LO said:I would like to think that you would be smart enough to know that when you enter a forum with the word "REVIEWS" in the title, perhaps all of them are going to be REVIEWING a cue...which necessitates having one. Now...you said you've had Sugartrees in the past. Obviously you liked them, because you ordered one. However...after painstakingly scrolling through every page of the cue review forum...I can't see where you took the time to give your previous Sugartrees a good review...you know...after having actually had them in your hands, regardless of whether you got them on the secondary market, or straight from Eric. So...cues you liked and had...no review. A cue you never got to begin with...bad review.
I'm kind of disappointed that lenoxmjs deleted his post. Having dealt with Eric probably more than any of us combined...I'd have liked to have seen what he had to say.
NOW I'm done.
Reread the post. I've had Sugartrees before. They were purchased AFTER I placed my order, which was never filled, more than 2 years ago!!!
This is a review of Eric and Sugartree Custom Cues (the business) with a mention for the fact that his cues play well. If you love the cues, buy them! I probably will in the future. But I'll never do business with Eric. He's just NOT a businessman.
I too would like to have seen what lenox had to say. But then again, Eric admitting that he was just brushing me off and lying to me was all I needed to see. I'm glad you're done because you seem to continually miss the point.
Nothing personal, but you just seem to hate the fact that I'm "attacking" someone whose work you love. Well, I like his work too. His work ethic blows though. And for that, not to mention the way I was treated by him, I'll never have praises for him. His cues, however, do play well. As I have said. Several times already.
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Will The Madness Ever....
ENDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pharaoh, your point has been made and very well documented. Don't you think it's about time to move on to another topic and by all means another cuemaker?
ENDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pharaoh, your point has been made and very well documented. Don't you think it's about time to move on to another topic and by all means another cuemaker?
Why is it OK for some cue makers to do this & others it is not?
I can see Erics point of only wanting to do what he wants to do. I think most of the great cue makers feel the same way, if they didn't love what they do the quality would suffer. I applaud him for being this way & living his life the way he want's to.
On the other hand I feel bad for pharoh because he was really looking forward to getting his cue. It hurts you because you feel for some reason that your being ignored by someone you have respect for. Maybe it will work out in the future.
Better luck in the future to both of you.
I can see Erics point of only wanting to do what he wants to do. I think most of the great cue makers feel the same way, if they didn't love what they do the quality would suffer. I applaud him for being this way & living his life the way he want's to.
On the other hand I feel bad for pharoh because he was really looking forward to getting his cue. It hurts you because you feel for some reason that your being ignored by someone you have respect for. Maybe it will work out in the future.
Better luck in the future to both of you.
i think the main problem that arises with custom builders and customers is that the american people are used to being the #1 big kahuna when it comes to spending their hard earned dollars. since its their hard earned money that they are spending, well goddamn it they want results, and they want it now. its incrudeous to think you are going to goto a furniture store, and ask for a chair delivered and not have it for 2 months after you order it, and for them to send the wrong chair out.
when we order at resturants, if the slightest thing with the meal is wrong, we send it back immediately, offended that something that we ordered and paid for had the audacity to come out late and wrong.
its this attitude that the american people have that carries over into everything, including buying cues.
they have to understand however, that a custom cue isn't something that can be aquired like something bought at a store, or ordered online. it's something made from scratch by one person, a human being like you or me. humans are fallable, they can make mistakes, they have emotions and they have a life outside of what they do, ie. build cues. ask yourself, if you built cues for a living, or like mr. crisp does as a hobby, and through your talent/years of practice at your craft achieved building something that is revered by the general public, have several hundred cues on backorder, knowing most likely as soon as one of your masterpeices are done its going to goto some jerk who will sell it to make a few hundred bucks, do you think you would have the mental fortitude to have customer service that rivals a company with hundreds of employees? or even to make every single cue to the exact specifications of the people who want them?
cue makers are artists. when you're ordering a cue, you're not ordering a pizza, or a table, or a computer, or dinner, you're asking a master craftsman to tailor make something for you by hand. you can't expect the same level of customer service or any type of "im paying so im the king shit of the whole operation" attitude and expect the cuemaker, who may i add one more time, is just another human being like you or me to bend over backwards and service everyone with the same 100% effort that the customer expects.
when we order at resturants, if the slightest thing with the meal is wrong, we send it back immediately, offended that something that we ordered and paid for had the audacity to come out late and wrong.
its this attitude that the american people have that carries over into everything, including buying cues.
they have to understand however, that a custom cue isn't something that can be aquired like something bought at a store, or ordered online. it's something made from scratch by one person, a human being like you or me. humans are fallable, they can make mistakes, they have emotions and they have a life outside of what they do, ie. build cues. ask yourself, if you built cues for a living, or like mr. crisp does as a hobby, and through your talent/years of practice at your craft achieved building something that is revered by the general public, have several hundred cues on backorder, knowing most likely as soon as one of your masterpeices are done its going to goto some jerk who will sell it to make a few hundred bucks, do you think you would have the mental fortitude to have customer service that rivals a company with hundreds of employees? or even to make every single cue to the exact specifications of the people who want them?
cue makers are artists. when you're ordering a cue, you're not ordering a pizza, or a table, or a computer, or dinner, you're asking a master craftsman to tailor make something for you by hand. you can't expect the same level of customer service or any type of "im paying so im the king shit of the whole operation" attitude and expect the cuemaker, who may i add one more time, is just another human being like you or me to bend over backwards and service everyone with the same 100% effort that the customer expects.
when we order at resturants, if the slightest thing with the meal is wrong, we send it back immediately, offended that something that we ordered and paid for had the audacity to come out late and wrong. [/QUOTE]
Only if we want it spit in or possibly worse.
Only if we want it spit in or possibly worse.
Tony Zinzola said:
Only if we want it spit in or possibly worse.[/QUOTE]
see i've worked at enough resteraunts to know that that mumbo jumbo about cooks spitting in burgers and steaks sent back is all crap. if any cook dared to try something funny to a customer's food and any manager saw it they would be fired on the spot. trust me, no cook would dare to tamper with a customer's food. if they spit in it, and the customer somehow saw the loogie, and told the manager, not to mention, they are all people working jobs.
now im talking about restaurants here, not fast food. i've heard enough first hand fast food horror stories to not want to piss off anyone who works in fast food.
however, as long as you're not an asshole when you are sending food back you have nothing to worry about.
I'm fortunate enough to now own a Sugartree.
The thing that really gets me is when someone wants to buy a cue from a cuemaker that's known for its great playability and then wants to change it (ie balance point). Let's say a cuemaker has a specific taper that he feel makes his cues the bomb. Why would you ask the cuemaker to change that?
I agree asking a cuemaker I would like a cue with ivory joints, points, butt plate, leather wrap, etc and let the cuemaker get on with the way the cue should be built.
When I had Wes Hunter build a cue for me I had a design in mind but I did let him implement that design and build the cue as he thought it should be. Why would I buy a Hunter Classic if it didn't play like a Hunter Classic cue? I did ask him numerous questions in the process prior to finally commissioning the work. I will also admit I wasn't sure of how the whole process worked or how in depth building cue is. I probably bugged him more than I should in the beginning but once I realised he had started building the cue, I left him to it and he let me know when it was ready.
The problem I have when folks wait the time period and IMMEDIATELY flip the cue at normally an extreme profit. As far as this situation with Pharoah, I gather he has owned a number of Sugartrees but then flips them. If you were a collector why flip. I suppose I can see if you needed the money then I might consider flipping a cue. If I was made an offer I couldn't resist I might flip a cue. If I no longer wanted a cue I would probably flip it. When I hear that someone has owned numerous Sugartrees but then flips them then I see someone is just in the business of flipping cues. What's the real issue/problem in this case? You're disappointed you didn't get a cue you could make a profit on. You didn't lose any money unless you think wow I was going to make $xxxx on this deal now I can't.
Finally I know Eric's priorities are first and foremost his family. Next are his friends. Eric cares about the sport and will go out of his way to help less fortunate. The TAR folks are one example. He has given cues away, for example I remember a story where a GI had a sugartree stolen and Eric just sent him another. How many cuemakers will do that. Eric is by no means perfect but he is a hell of a classy guy....
So after my rant, all I will say is get over it..........
The thing that really gets me is when someone wants to buy a cue from a cuemaker that's known for its great playability and then wants to change it (ie balance point). Let's say a cuemaker has a specific taper that he feel makes his cues the bomb. Why would you ask the cuemaker to change that?
I agree asking a cuemaker I would like a cue with ivory joints, points, butt plate, leather wrap, etc and let the cuemaker get on with the way the cue should be built.
When I had Wes Hunter build a cue for me I had a design in mind but I did let him implement that design and build the cue as he thought it should be. Why would I buy a Hunter Classic if it didn't play like a Hunter Classic cue? I did ask him numerous questions in the process prior to finally commissioning the work. I will also admit I wasn't sure of how the whole process worked or how in depth building cue is. I probably bugged him more than I should in the beginning but once I realised he had started building the cue, I left him to it and he let me know when it was ready.
The problem I have when folks wait the time period and IMMEDIATELY flip the cue at normally an extreme profit. As far as this situation with Pharoah, I gather he has owned a number of Sugartrees but then flips them. If you were a collector why flip. I suppose I can see if you needed the money then I might consider flipping a cue. If I was made an offer I couldn't resist I might flip a cue. If I no longer wanted a cue I would probably flip it. When I hear that someone has owned numerous Sugartrees but then flips them then I see someone is just in the business of flipping cues. What's the real issue/problem in this case? You're disappointed you didn't get a cue you could make a profit on. You didn't lose any money unless you think wow I was going to make $xxxx on this deal now I can't.
Finally I know Eric's priorities are first and foremost his family. Next are his friends. Eric cares about the sport and will go out of his way to help less fortunate. The TAR folks are one example. He has given cues away, for example I remember a story where a GI had a sugartree stolen and Eric just sent him another. How many cuemakers will do that. Eric is by no means perfect but he is a hell of a classy guy....
So after my rant, all I will say is get over it..........
Page 6 into this thread and I doubt anyone will take much time to read much less respond to anything I type here. But I just wanted to throw in my review of Sugartree cues.
I first heard the of Sugartree years ago in a much smaller forum. Qbuilder was a name that frequented the boards answering EVERY question asked of him from newbies to other builders. Sugartree Cues helped so many people start building and learn more about pool and cues in general. He certainly helped me understand the way wood works in cues and the information helped me and my love of the game. And I am not the only person who he helped answer questions unconditionally.
I did own a Sugartree cue and enjoyed it. I had a son and decided to quit the game for a long while. So I decided to sell my Sugartree. I contacted Qbuilder and informed him that I was selling the cue and offered to send him half of any profit since I dont think its fair that builders dont get anything when cues are sold on the secondary market. He told me that he appreciated the guesture but to use the money for my kids college fund. So thats what I did but bought a 100$ CD that will earn interest for 18 years.
Every question I ever had, he answered and responded to without even knowing me. I asked to be put on his list a few years ago and maybe by the time I come arround to playing again, it my turn may come about. but if not, I am not to worried about it. In my opinion he has increased a lot of peoples appreciation and enjoyment of pool. He is a good guy.
The situation you described has many factors to it. Many of which you will never get a satisfactory answer to. One thing that I have noticed is that "nice guys" tend to have a hard time saying "NO" to people. Even people that deserve a "NO". I am not saying that this is the case in this situation. But it happens a lot to people who arent used to disapointing others. Sometimes avoidance is easier than outright denial. I have no idea what the situation is in this case but I do hope you find closure soon.
Honestly its no one else's problem but your own. Out of every 500 people you deal with, if 10 complain you are still pleasing 99.8% Even if that .2% complain the loudest.
Vic
I first heard the of Sugartree years ago in a much smaller forum. Qbuilder was a name that frequented the boards answering EVERY question asked of him from newbies to other builders. Sugartree Cues helped so many people start building and learn more about pool and cues in general. He certainly helped me understand the way wood works in cues and the information helped me and my love of the game. And I am not the only person who he helped answer questions unconditionally.
I did own a Sugartree cue and enjoyed it. I had a son and decided to quit the game for a long while. So I decided to sell my Sugartree. I contacted Qbuilder and informed him that I was selling the cue and offered to send him half of any profit since I dont think its fair that builders dont get anything when cues are sold on the secondary market. He told me that he appreciated the guesture but to use the money for my kids college fund. So thats what I did but bought a 100$ CD that will earn interest for 18 years.
Every question I ever had, he answered and responded to without even knowing me. I asked to be put on his list a few years ago and maybe by the time I come arround to playing again, it my turn may come about. but if not, I am not to worried about it. In my opinion he has increased a lot of peoples appreciation and enjoyment of pool. He is a good guy.
The situation you described has many factors to it. Many of which you will never get a satisfactory answer to. One thing that I have noticed is that "nice guys" tend to have a hard time saying "NO" to people. Even people that deserve a "NO". I am not saying that this is the case in this situation. But it happens a lot to people who arent used to disapointing others. Sometimes avoidance is easier than outright denial. I have no idea what the situation is in this case but I do hope you find closure soon.
Honestly its no one else's problem but your own. Out of every 500 people you deal with, if 10 complain you are still pleasing 99.8% Even if that .2% complain the loudest.
Vic
pharaoh68 said:
That is probably valid. If mortgages and engagement rings are your priority then I wouldn't be looking at spending money on a custom cue. Prioritize..... Take a page out of Eric's book. Family is his priority as it should be for all of us.
Finally, if you have tried so many different Sugartrees and you are STILL looking for a Sugartree then maybe a sugartree just isn't for you. From the sounds of it and as I stated before, why change things (balance point, etc) when that changes the playability of the cue. When Eric builds a cue he is looking at the best combination of materials for playability that makes the Sugartree what it is. When you diverse from that you are in fact changing the playability. I can accept saying I would like a specific weight and length but I would never ask a cuemaker to change his taper or balance point when asking for a cue to be built. Let the cuebuilder do what he thinks will work. If you still can't accept that then again maybe a Sugartree just isn't for you......
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I have been lucky enough to own/play with every cue possible over the past 25 years, Eric's cues are right up at the top of the list of the finest playing cues ever made. I have a Gus S and one Bushka that are 2 best cues i can remeber playing with and a Cue Eric made in the same company, oh yeah a SW as well, any of those 4 cues are, oops a Barry as well of 5 cues, IMO the best cues period. Erics cues are in there with the top names ever. His newer cues are better than cues he made 2 years ago, where he will end remains to be seen... It isnt fair to say one guy is the best but there are hand full of guys who build the best playing cues and Eric's name is on that list.
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