Eric Crisp - Sugartree cues REVIEW

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ridewiththewind said:
Bri...I guess I just do not get why you would bring this up a good month, perhaps month and a half after the fact. You, yourself stated that you didn't even care about getting the cue, as you had already managed to own several, and sold them again. Then you publicly cancelled your own order.

Just not getting what you hope to gain by this post? You state that if a cuemaker accepts money for a cue, that it no longer make them a hobbyist...I think there are several cuemakers who would tend to disagree with you. These individuals make their cues because it is something they enjoy to do, and do not wish to have constraints or demands placed upon them...hence making the experience too much like work.

hobby ~ 1. an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation: Her hobbies include stamp-collecting and woodcarving.


Lisa <==== not on the list, and is okay with that. :)
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Lisa-
I brought this up for a reason and this is it: all the time I hear about how great a guy Eric is and how he's so wonderful and so nice and such a great guy to do business with. Well, beware to everyone who reads all of that sh!t because you could end up ordering something and NOT getting it. Don't think that's possible?! I'm living proof.

When I post this (30 days ago or 30 days from now) should have NO bearing on the subject matter. The fact still remains Eric screwed up and failed to deliver. And then he publicly admitted to giving me the run-around.

Do me a favor... step away from this thread. Your opinion here is unwanted and unneeded. If you think this is me coming off as 'sour grapes', then that's fine. But you really need to look at the subject matter here. Truth is, my grievances were aired on another forum and NOT everyone here knows the story. Now they have the ability to learn that story and see that perhaps the great Eric Crisp ain't so great afterall.

I never said that if a cuemaker accepts money it no longer makes them a hobbyist. My point was and still is, if you take orders for your 'hobby', you better damn-well fill those orders. If you don't, deal with the bad publicity (like this) that ensues. Someone just a few threads down in this same forum asked for opinions on Sugartree cues. I gave my opinions on the cues and the maker. Don't like what I have to say? Well, I'll give you the same advice I gave you regarding the raffles. You don't like it? Move on - quietly.
 
Bigjohn said:
Sorry... but IMHO your responses to this thread are biased. If I had received the cue in question... and it was Free... I surely would have had a different response.
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Sure they are biased. Just like Brians are. My experience was good and his was bad. If he wants to open it up to people's experiences with Eric Crisp you are going to get both sides.

So because I had a good experience with Eric Crisp my opinion has less weight than someone beating on a dead horse that he has flogged over and over? I just do not agree.

Eric Crisp was one of the first guys to PM me when TAR got started. He offered to give us a cue to raffle or sell to help out. This about 10 months ago. I replied, he replied back and I never heard another word about it and figured he was probably busy and forgot about it. Until Vegas when he handed me a cue. So my experience is that Eric Crisp does what he says when he decides he is ready to do it.

I interviewed the guy and he is far from shy about how he builds cues and how he delivers them. I would suggest if you want a different way of doing business then choose a different cuemaker. He says as much on the tape. I understand the frustration but it is not exactly earth shattering, in fact after the first couple missed deadlines I would have told him "Don't worry about it" I don't understand why someone would keep trying to do business with someone that treated them as Brian claims he was treated. No one on earth makes anything that good IMO. Personally if I was that upset or pissed or whatever I would just have my say and move on, not rehash it just to stir up people.
 
Birk1 said:
I ordered a sugartree back in May of 2005...it was delivered Feb 2007 - over 1.5 years after my delivery date.

here is the kicker...the cue was not the right weight, not the right diameter at the handle and not EVEN CLOSE relative to the balance point I ordered (19inches from the bumper was my order - came balanced at 22 inches from the bumper)

you are not the only one who was / is not impressed.
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I just watched that interview with Wes Hunter and Eric Crisp. Eric mentions that when someone orders one of his cues they get one of his cues. That he doesn't do special tapers and such, they get the cue the way he makes them. If he feels this way and still told you he would build to your specifications, that's mighty weak in my opinion.
 
JCIN said:
Sure they are biased. Just like Brians are. My experience was good and his was bad. If he wants to open it up to people's experiences with Eric Crisp you are going to get both sides.

So because I had a good experience with Eric Crisp my opinion has less weight than someone beating on a dead horse that he has flogged over and over? I just do not agree.

Eric Crisp was one of the first guys to PM me when TAR got started. He offered to give us a cue to raffle or sell to help out. This about 10 months ago. I replied, he replied back and I never heard another word about it and figured he was probably busy and forgot about it. Until Vegas when he handed me a cue. So my experience is that Eric Crisp does what he says when he decides he is ready to do it.

I interviewed the guy and he is far from shy about how he builds cues and how he delivers them. I would suggest if you want a different way of doing business then choose a different cuemaker. He says as much on the tape. I understand the frustration but it is not exactly earth shattering, in fact after the first couple missed deadlines I would have told him "Don't worry about it" I don't understand why someone would keep trying to do business with someone that treated them as Brian claims he was treated. No one on earth makes anything that good IMO. Personally if I was that upset or pissed or whatever I would just have my say and move on, not rehash it just to stir up people.
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I'm done with this one and would just like to say in closing that I have owned several Sugartree cues and they have all been great cues. Just did not like the hijacking incident... done. :)
 
ccn7 said:
What I'd like to know from all you past ST owners, what have you replaced your ST cue with. Just curious, are you buying them for playing or collecting or just to turn it fast and make a few bucks. Especially if its a custom to your order why would you then sell it trade it or whatever. Anyways just some thoughts i had if you care to enlighten me a lil bit i'd appreciate it very much thank you all.
Another curious mind with to much time on my hands.
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i actually took a loss when i sold mine, i wish i still had it. someone broke in to my car and smashed my ignition system so i had to sell it to get the cash to pay for the repair.

i have five cues and it was the only cue i had at the time i could sell and still cover all the repair costs
 
pharaoh68 said:
...then don't. Move along.
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Good lord, Bri...who pissed in your corn flakes today?!!! First you took a shot at me over in another thread, as if I am not allowed to have an opinion...and now you're barking at the moon here...freaking hell.

As to you saying they stop being a hobbyist when they collect the monies....yeah, you kinda did in post #1: "Well, call me crazy but, a hobby stops being a hobby when you start taking orders and accepting money from people. No?"

Now, you are correct in the fact that *I* cannot attest to Eric's business practices....I have had no dealings with him whatsoever. With that said, I shall retract that portion of my response, as I have no first hand knowledge.

I am out of this thread, as I have always considered you a friend, and am not about to get into a pissing match with you here, or anywhere else.

Lisa
 
This seems more like a review of Eric that it does one of his cues. You know...I've corresponded with Eric for a long time now. I fell in love with his cues when Jamie Wernsman of New2YouQ's was nice enough to let me buy a fancy rosewood sneaky with a buckhorn buttcap, joint, and some fancy rings. Some time later I bought a purpleheart sneaky conversion off of another AZ'er. Since then, they've both found wonderful new homes. Eric then gave me a chance to buy a very simple ebony sneaky with an oil rubbed finish and basic white phenolic rings. When I got the cue...it had a couple dings in it. I sent it back to him for a refinish. Several months went by and nothing came back. We stayed in touch religiously. The man was busy. He had a pretty big move from Alaska to New Mexico too. Not only is that quite the haul geographically...but the two places are lightyears apart from a climatic stand point as well. I have no doubt it wreaked havoc on a lot of his wood, and several cues that were in progress already. At any rate...the cue never came...and he gave me more credit than what I'd paid for the cue towards an upgrade to a monster cue that didn't have a home. Eric's never owed me anything. He never will. I HOPE near or far into the future...I'll have opportunities to work my way into his schedule. I love dealing with the man...and leaving his cues out of the equation for a minute...I think he's just a phenomenal example of humanity. At the very least...relative to what you often deal with on this forum...he's a beacon of light. It would be a real shame if Eric stopped making cues because of threads like this. For someone that has been GENERALLY so well regarded by both his peers and customers...the guy certainly takes some pretty heavy blows like this on occassion. It's gotta be frustrating when every time one of your cues comes up for sale on the secondary market...people hijack the thread and *****, whine, and complain about the $$$$ amount it's fetching. It's gotta be frustrating when people post their ST's in the Gallery thread...and instead of people commenting on the work itself...people are saying "Must be nice to order a Sugartree and actually get it." It's REALLY gotta be frustrating too...when a good majority of the people you're making cues for...are constantly badgering the piss out of you...so that when they finally DO get their cue...they can throw it back up on the forum for hundreds more than what they paid. Has anyone ever stopped to consider that Eric could easily be charging his primary customers...what they're charging people on the secondary market? You know...all good cue makers have lists...and no one BUT the cue makers know where any given person falls on that list in terms of the order in which they're due to receive a cue. But...I can almost GUARANTEE...that some cuemakers are bound to be most responsive to doing business with people they LIKE. The money's going to come from SOMEWHERE when you're in demand. If you don't think some guy being a jerk can be replaced with some guy who's very pleasant to deal with at the same price point...you're crazy. For the record...I'm not saying you were a jerk either. I have only what you've said to work with. Clearly the sum of the mans praises far exceed the sume of his denouncements. There's no Sugartree thread the likes of the Varney threads that were started. SOMEONE was bound to have a bad experience with Eric...I'm sorry it was you. Eric can make cues for me any day he wants to. I'll wait.
 
i understand pharaoh68's frustration but since there was no money exchanged i don't see a huge problem with what's happened.

look at it this way bro you still have your cash to buy one from a dealer
 
Retail1LO said:
This seems more like a review of Eric that it does one of his cues. You know...I've corresponded with Eric for a long time now. I fell in love with his cues when Jamie Wernsman of New2YouQ's was nice enough to let me buy a fancy rosewood sneaky with a buckhorn buttcap, joint, and some fancy rings. Some time later I bought a purpleheart sneaky conversion off of another AZ'er. Since then, they've both found wonderful new homes. Eric then gave me a chance to buy a very simple ebony sneaky with an oil rubbed finish and basic white phenolic rings. When I got the cue...it had a couple dings in it. I sent it back to him for a refinish. Several months went by and nothing came back. We stayed in touch religiously. The man was busy. He had a pretty big move from Alaska to New Mexico too. Not only is that quite the haul geographically...but the two places are lightyears apart from a climatic stand point as well. I have no doubt it wreaked havoc on a lot of his wood, and several cues that were in progress already. At any rate...the cue never came...and he gave me more credit than what I'd paid for the cue towards an upgrade to a monster cue that didn't have a home. Eric's never owed me anything. He never will. I HOPE near or far into the future...I'll have opportunities to work my way into his schedule. I love dealing with the man...and leaving his cues out of the equation for a minute...I think he's just a phenomenal example of humanity. At the very least...relative to what you often deal with on this forum...he's a beacon of light. It would be a real shame if Eric stopped making cues because of threads like this. For someone that has been GENERALLY so well regarded by both his peers and customers...the guy certainly takes some pretty heavy blows like this on occassion. It's gotta be frustrating when every time one of your cues comes up for sale on the secondary market...people hijack the thread and *****, whine, and complain about the $$$$ amount it's fetching. It's gotta be frustrating when people post their ST's in the Gallery thread...and instead of people commenting on the work itself...people are saying "Must be nice to order a Sugartree and actually get it." It's REALLY gotta be frustrating too...when a good majority of the people you're making cues for...are constantly badgering the piss out of you...so that when they finally DO get their cue...they can throw it back up on the forum for hundreds more than what they paid. Has anyone ever stopped to consider that Eric could easily be charging his primary customers...what they're charging people on the secondary market? You know...all good cue makers have lists...and no one BUT the cue makers know where any given person falls on that list in terms of the order in which they're due to receive a cue. But...I can almost GUARANTEE...that some cuemakers are bound to be most responsive to doing business with people they LIKE. The money's going to come from SOMEWHERE when you're in demand. If you don't think some guy being a jerk can be replaced with some guy who's very pleasant to deal with at the same price point...you're crazy. For the record...I'm not saying you were a jerk either. I have only what you've said to work with. Clearly the sum of the mans praises far exceed the sume of his denouncements. There's no Sugartree thread the likes of the Varney threads that were started. SOMEONE was bound to have a bad experience with Eric...I'm sorry it was you. Eric can make cues for me any day he wants to. I'll wait.
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Sad part about this is Eric was too nice taking on requests early on when he already had a long list. He probably thought he could make all those cues, then the move ( to a brutal place for wood ), then the kids and all.
He could have easily done what a very famous maker did to his waiting list, tear it apart and just deliver cues to one dealer.
Really, if you have 50 cues on order, why bother answering the phone and e-mails? It's not like he needs to sell any cues, they'd sell when they get delivered.
Let's put ourselves in his shoes for a minute. His wife is away serving. He has to take care of the kids. He's trying to make functional art out of wood in the desert. A thousand people wanna get a hold of him. Some people probably wanna complain because the weight is .25 oz over and the ferrule is .505 not .512.
Let's see if you don't go Vincent Van Gogh.
I can empathize with Brian not getting his cue. In hindsight Eric should have told him the two cues warped and I don't have room to make another one for you because I am overwhelmed with work.
 
JoeyInCali said:

Sad part about this is Eric was too nice taking on requests early on when he already had a long list. He probably thought he could make all those cues, then the move ( to a brutal place for wood ), then the kids and all.
He could have easily done what a very famous maker did to his waiting list, tear it apart and just deliver cues to one dealer.
Really, if you have 50 cues on order, why bother answering the phone and e-mails? It's not like he needs to sell any cues, they'd sell when they get delivered.
Let's put ourselves in his shoes for a minute. His wife is away serving. He has to take care of the kids. He's trying to make functional art out of wood in the desert. A thousand people wanna get a hold of him. Some people probably wanna complain because the weight is .25 oz over and the ferrule is .505 not .512.
Let's see if you don't go Vincent Van Gogh.
I can empathize with Brian not getting his cue. In hindsight Eric should have told him the two cues warped and I don't have room to make another one for you because I am overwhelmed with work.
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*laughing* What's more...is every week there's a "Qbilder - Please empty your PM box" or "Where in World is Carmen San Die....errrr...Eric Crisp????" thread. His email inbox must take a beating too. It's no wonder I've never heard of anyone having his phone number. He'd be out of his gourd to ever give THAT out. Christ...most people don't realize it...but he also takes jaunts up to the upper peninsula of Michigan to hunt down the shaft wood everyone loves. Mapquest Alamogordo, NM to ANYWHERE in Michigan...and get a feel for the time that must take to travel with an SUV and a trailer behind it for lumber...on top of the time spent picking through all the wood. With the price of gas these days...I'm surprised one of his old growth shafts isn't $500. *LOL*

How's this. Anyone...and I do mean ANYONE...that already has a spot on Eric's list...and has any kind of gripe about...just provide some kind of confirmation from Eric...and I'll be more than happy to buy your spot in the rotation. I don't give a rats ass if that spot is years out. You're closer to being in possession of one of the nicest cues out there than I am.
 
I also have a cue on order with Eric. Alas it is also overdue. Eric please clear your PMs, I want to order another cue from you. I am not stalking you by posting on this thread. I hunt and have patience.
Glen
 
pharaoh68 said:
REVIEW OF ERIC CRISP:
Here's the story. Its kinda long.

Better than two years ago, I began to hear of a new, up-and-coming cuemaker out there named Eric Crisp. His cues were called Sugartree Custom Cues. Eric had a short wait at the time and good prices. More importantly, he had a reputation for building solid players with some really wild woods. So i was intrigued.

I contacted Eric and placed an order for a pretty plan cue. nothing too fancy. Eric agreed to the order, saying it would be done in about three months. I inquired about a deposit and he said none was required. I offered, but again, he said it was not necessary. So I sat back and smiled as I closed my eyes and waited for the monster player I had just ordered.

Three months passed and I checked in. I was told that the cue was coming along nicely. And he would send me some pics when he had a chance. Pics never came.

Several months came and went again and I sent Eric another email. I was told that during his move from Alaska to Arizona or New Mexico (or wherever he is now), the wood moved a little and that he might have to start over. I though, 'Well, I'd rather not have a warped cue so if it takes more time, it takes more time. No biggie."

A few more months still and I inquired again. I was told the woods oved and he would have to scrap it. My response. "That's ok. Since we're starting over, can we tweak the design some?" Eric said sure. He knew I wasnted burl and he was eager to do a forearm of black walnut burl. I was thrilled. He said he would sent pics of the blocks of burl he had. I never saw any.

I inquired again and was promised pics again. No pics came. Now I'm beginning to feel like I am getting the run-around. I mean, late is one thing. But 2+ years late?!?!

Two years or better had gone by since my DELIVERY date. Not my order date. Other people had their orders filled. Dealers were getting cues in mass quantities. Eric's popularity, his wait, and his prices soared. All the while, i never got my cue!!!

So, being a poster on another forum, I told my tale. I was kind enough to leave Eric's name out of it as I was just looking for opinions from other posters. Well, Eric saw my thread and he responded. He basically admitted outright that he was "playing peek-a-boo" with me and that I was more persistent, I might have my cue. He insisted that this was "just a hobby". Well, call me crazy but, a hobby stops being a hobby when you start taking orders and accepting money from people. No?

Here's the thing. I waited 2+ years and I never got my cue. Eric offered (in his response on the other forum) to fill my order. At which point I said I'd rather buy one on the second-hand market and give the money to someone else. I cancelled the order.

But here's the thing. I'm not the only person this has happened to. I know of other people who have never gotten their cues. So, why is it that so many people are quick to say how great Eric is?!?! I mean, he flat-out admitted that in my case, he was pretty much lying to me. So I ask you, is this good business???


REVIEW OF THE CUES:
I've owned and played with other Sugartrees that I got through outher people. They play pretty good.
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Brian,
I feel your pain, like a good boy I waited 4-5 years for a cue without being a pain in the a$$. But my good friend and this cue maker parted ways and I got sh*t. Heck we were even talking design, pearl gun sites, classical pearl patterns. But I did learn a valuable lesson about patience, loyalty and honor all at the same time.

JV
 
poolplayer2093 said:
i actually took a loss when i sold mine, i wish i still had it. someone broke in to my car and smashed my ignition system so i had to sell it to get the cash to pay for the repair.

i have five cues and it was the only cue i had at the time i could sell and still cover all the repair costs
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Very sorry to hear a story like that, but can understand why you NEEDED to sell your cue.
 
BlowFish said:
Patience is a Virtue.

Getting pissed just hurts you.

Enough said.
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Patience got me nothing but lies and empty promises.

Getting pissed got the cuemaker to publicly admit he was lying to me.

Enough said.
 
Please post the link

pharaoh68 said:
Patience got me nothing but lies and empty promises.

Getting pissed got the cuemaker to publicly admit he was lying to me.

Enough said.
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Hi Brian,
Could you please post the link for everyone to see(I could have missed it)
Thanks
Tank
 
Lisa, JCIN, and Joey... PLEASE READ

Ok. First let me start by saying this.

I stand behind my inital post in this thread 100%. A cuemaker gladly took my order and did NOT fill it. This would be one thing if circumstances prevented it. But seeing as how I was NEVER rude, disrespectful, or anything like that, I find it bothersome that he chose to lie to me about the order (and publicly admitted to it), meanwhile, he filled OTHER orders. If he had a problem with me, he should have told me. If he just didn't feel like doing it, he should have told me. Lying to me about it was ridiculous. Everything I said in my inital post is 100% accurate and 100% how I feel.

HOWEVER...

...there is no doubt in my mind that I owe Lisa a very public apology and I will gladly offer one to her. Lisa, my apologies. I disagreed with what you were saying and I still do. But regardless, differences of opinion happen all the time. You and I are friends and have been for some time. For me to respond in the manner that I did was uncalled for an unneccessary. Please check your PMs. I will go into further detail there.

JCIN, I still disagree with what you were saying. Eric did good by you. I'm happy for you as far as that is concerned. But he did me wrong. And he did wrong to others I know. I will not name names but I've had a few people PM me over this. Eric makes a GREAT cue and is friendly as hell. But my point was, when he took my order, he had an obligation to fill it. When he chose to bypass my order for other orders and feed me lies instead of delivering on his promises, he brought his reputation into question.

And Joey, I'm glad Eric made good by you. I have long respected you for your knowledge and cuemaking abilities. I'm not sure why you felt a need to take a shot at me on page one of this thread (your tone was indicative of mockery) but I think the case I have against Eric is pretty cut and dry. He accepted an order and only gave me lies. To me, that is an unacceptable business practice. Still, I hold no ill-feelings towards you. Maybe I just read your post the wrong way and misinterpreted it. If so, my bad. I think we ALL know I ain't perfect. :o

But again. I still stand behind my review 100%. The Sugartree I owned was a solid player. I WILL likely own others. But will I ever go through Eric again? Not a chance.

-B
 
pharaoh68 said:
And Joey, I'm glad Eric made good by you. I have long respected you for your knowledge and cuemaking abilities. I'm not sure why you felt a need to take a shot at me on page one of this thread (your tone was indicative of mockery) but I think the case I have against Eric is pretty cut and dry. He accepted an order and only gave me lies. To me, that is an unacceptable business practice. Still, I hold no ill-feelings towards you. Maybe I just read your post the wrong way and misinterpreted it. If so, my bad. I think we ALL know I ain't perfect. :o

But again. I still stand behind my review 100%. The Sugartree I owned was a solid player. I WILL likely own others. But will I ever go through Eric again? Not a chance.

-B
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I'm sorry if you thought that was a shot at you, it wasn't.
I hope you and Eric can come to a good closure to this.
He's away for a month so it might take a little longer.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I'm sorry if you thought that was a shot at you, it wasn't.
I hope you and Eric can come to a good closure to this.
He's away for a month so it might take a little longer.
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Joey-
Like I said, it probably just misunderstood what was written. No harm, no foul.

Take it easy man,
Brian
 
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