RunoutalloverU said:
Lol.
Yeah, he's hopelessly rigid and lacks the ability to consider that sometimes you can combine things that are at first incompatible and arrive at a successful end result.
Ernesto Dominguez; Some or his work.
- Thread starter T411
- Start date
Lol.
Yeah, he's hopelessly rigid and lacks the ability to consider that sometimes you can combine things that are at first incompatible and arrive at a successful end result.
Wow
Not at all; I can guarantee the cost was money well spent. Ernesto was recommended to me by a great player that likes the way "Ernesto's Tables" play and like I said earlier I am more than happy with the work that Ernesto Dominguez did with my table and would recommend him again to anyone. If you all notice this thread was started 2 1/2 years ago and everyone who has played on my table has loved the way it plays and I always give props to Ernesto.
This is by fare the biggest thread that I started on this forum in 5 years and it took 2 1/2 years to get this big LOL. I think it came out of the dust because I hyper-linked it to this thread; http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=89714 , a few days ago. Funny how that happened but what is not funny to me is that it has grown into something that I did not intend.
Ernesto's son Oscar has felt that he has to defend his dad and I think he is a great son for that. I would do the same for my dad and I like to think my kids would do the same for me (I'm sure they would). I want Oscar to know and I'm sure he already does, his dads work needs no defending. Ernesto, Ernesto's work, and Ernesto's family are admired and respected by everyone that knows him.
This forum is a great thing and can be a help for people or it can hurt people; lets use it the right way.
Dawgie said:
Not at all; I can guarantee the cost was money well spent. Ernesto was recommended to me by a great player that likes the way "Ernesto's Tables" play and like I said earlier I am more than happy with the work that Ernesto Dominguez did with my table and would recommend him again to anyone. If you all notice this thread was started 2 1/2 years ago and everyone who has played on my table has loved the way it plays and I always give props to Ernesto.
This is by fare the biggest thread that I started on this forum in 5 years and it took 2 1/2 years to get this big LOL. I think it came out of the dust because I hyper-linked it to this thread; http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=89714 , a few days ago. Funny how that happened but what is not funny to me is that it has grown into something that I did not intend.
Ernesto's son Oscar has felt that he has to defend his dad and I think he is a great son for that. I would do the same for my dad and I like to think my kids would do the same for me (I'm sure they would). I want Oscar to know and I'm sure he already does, his dads work needs no defending. Ernesto, Ernesto's work, and Ernesto's family are admired and respected by everyone that knows him.
This forum is a great thing and can be a help for people or it can hurt people; lets use it the right way.
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Opinions are like...
You know the rest. I am sure the work being talked about in this thread is impeccable. The attitude that is being displayed and discussed is the same as could and does get exhibited by someone at the highest level of their craft. You know what you do is of the highest quality and are not afaid to say so. I do contracting work in peoples homes and continually have to "educate" homeowners on what the previous installers did and why it failed, then explain the correct way it should have been done, which will be the way I will do the job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating the textbook way of doing something.
You know the rest. I am sure the work being talked about in this thread is impeccable. The attitude that is being displayed and discussed is the same as could and does get exhibited by someone at the highest level of their craft. You know what you do is of the highest quality and are not afaid to say so. I do contracting work in peoples homes and continually have to "educate" homeowners on what the previous installers did and why it failed, then explain the correct way it should have been done, which will be the way I will do the job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating the textbook way of doing something.
gregoryg said:
gregoryg, I am not picking on you or your response.
I am curious, is there a 'textbook' for table installations? is there a table mechanics school?
Other than learning from an experienced Table Mechanic, how does anyone know what is 'textbook'?
Just because a table mechanic has been successful and is able to tell customers what his working knowledge has seen over the years, doesn't make it 'textbook'. Just a reference from an experienced table mechanic.
I can call myself a master promoter and master tournament director just because I can and have been doing it for 15+ years. This still doesn't mean I am better than anyone other TD or Promoter, just among those that perform.
But, 'textbook'... just another self promoting term.
I have the utmost respect for both Glen and Ernesto. From what I have heard and seen, they are two of the elite class of their profession of pool table technicians. We should all be lucky if we have our tables graced by either of them.
I would not hesitate to have Ernesto do the rails on my Gold Crown, even after knowing of the alterations that are made to the sub-rail. That said, I would feel much better knowing in advance that this is the way it works, rather than having my stomach drop as part of my rail gets sliced off.
Of course, I can imagine asking him what is up with that, and based on his reputation of being such a gentleman, I believe he'd be patient with my ignorance and explain to me that all the Ernesto tables that I love had gone through the very same "right of passage". At that point I would say, aha! Carry on then, sir! Slice it off! 
That said, if I knew in advance, I might ask him if he'd be willing to install K55 rubber on there without doing the subrail mods, especially if I had a very new table. I'm not sure if he is willing to do that by request or not.
I don't fault Ernesto for going about this in an unorthodox manner. In fact, he came up with a creative solution to a difficult problem. The problem being that pool went through this phase called, "available cushions suck ass". In other words, I have read that the Brunsick cushions back in the day were the very best when they were made in Chicago, USA, but at some point they started outsourcing them. When this happened, the recipe was botched resulting in cushions that went dead prematurely... crystalized, worthless.
Anyway, I imagine that in the days when Brunswick cushions were garbage, Ernesto discovered Artimus, K66, and said, if I can make this work, we have a shot at recushioning the best table in the world which was hands down the Gold Crown at that time. He made it work and was and is a hero for that. So, I would argue that Brunswick is actually to blame for any heat Ernesto has taken over his method.
Now-adays there are good cushions widely available in the K55 profile. Perhaps there were all along somewhere, but I'm pretty sure there was a large group of people who couldn't find them at the time, Ernesto included. So now the K55 are widely available, what should Ernesto do? I think he's just saying, why change what I know works, and what people want. I cannot fault him for that.
I also can't fault Glen, who is saying, you don't need to make these modifications to tables, which are very difficult to reverse later down the line. Dartman summarized this very well. So neither man is wrong really, and I hope there can be a meeting of the minds where both can understand each other.
I think Glen came out misinterpreted, people got defensive and then he got defensive in return. I've talked to Glen and he's a great guy. From what I've read, he is doing a lot in the industry to try to get things standardized, which will benefit everyone. There are a lot of guys who don't do things by the book, because I don't think there even IS a book. For Ernesto, this doesn't stop him from making a table that plays awesome, arguably perfect, but in a general sense, not all technicians will be able to pull that off... which is why it's good goal to have things become standardized in the future.
It would actually be cool if both Ernesto and Glen could try things the other guy's way, and to have some pros test out the tables. Not with a bunch of us AZ'ers breathing down their necks and judging them, but in some kind of a private venue, test lab type of situation. Diamond would be a great company to drive this as an R&D type of effort. I'm not trying to volunteer Diamond, nor would I expect them to have the resources available to fund this, but I'm just pondering as to what would be an ideal direction to go for the future of pool, if time and money weren't a consideration.
Perhaps there is an optimal cushion configuration that is yet to be discovered. Perhaps it is neiher the standard (K55) nor the Ernesto way (adapted K66), maybe it's something in between or something different altogether. In reality, without a table company driving it, table mechanics generally don't have the time to do this, I don't think, because they are just too busy and overworked, like Glen and Ernesto probably both are.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. These are my thoughts, and although not very well organized ,I just wanted to share them for whatever they're worth. I think it's easy for people to be misunderstood on a forum. I think both Ernesto and Glen are great technicians, two of the world's best, and they both seem like great guys who care about their customers. We should be lucky if all technicians take such pride in their work as these men do. I think Glen and Ernesto as well as Oscar are all assets to the game of pool.
I would not hesitate to have Ernesto do the rails on my Gold Crown, even after knowing of the alterations that are made to the sub-rail. That said, I would feel much better knowing in advance that this is the way it works, rather than having my stomach drop as part of my rail gets sliced off.
Of course, I can imagine asking him what is up with that, and based on his reputation of being such a gentleman, I believe he'd be patient with my ignorance and explain to me that all the Ernesto tables that I love had gone through the very same "right of passage". At that point I would say, aha! Carry on then, sir! Slice it off! That said, if I knew in advance, I might ask him if he'd be willing to install K55 rubber on there without doing the subrail mods, especially if I had a very new table. I'm not sure if he is willing to do that by request or not.
I don't fault Ernesto for going about this in an unorthodox manner. In fact, he came up with a creative solution to a difficult problem. The problem being that pool went through this phase called, "available cushions suck ass". In other words, I have read that the Brunsick cushions back in the day were the very best when they were made in Chicago, USA, but at some point they started outsourcing them. When this happened, the recipe was botched resulting in cushions that went dead prematurely... crystalized, worthless.
Anyway, I imagine that in the days when Brunswick cushions were garbage, Ernesto discovered Artimus, K66, and said, if I can make this work, we have a shot at recushioning the best table in the world which was hands down the Gold Crown at that time. He made it work and was and is a hero for that. So, I would argue that Brunswick is actually to blame for any heat Ernesto has taken over his method.
Now-adays there are good cushions widely available in the K55 profile. Perhaps there were all along somewhere, but I'm pretty sure there was a large group of people who couldn't find them at the time, Ernesto included. So now the K55 are widely available, what should Ernesto do? I think he's just saying, why change what I know works, and what people want. I cannot fault him for that.
I also can't fault Glen, who is saying, you don't need to make these modifications to tables, which are very difficult to reverse later down the line. Dartman summarized this very well. So neither man is wrong really, and I hope there can be a meeting of the minds where both can understand each other.
I think Glen came out misinterpreted, people got defensive and then he got defensive in return. I've talked to Glen and he's a great guy. From what I've read, he is doing a lot in the industry to try to get things standardized, which will benefit everyone. There are a lot of guys who don't do things by the book, because I don't think there even IS a book. For Ernesto, this doesn't stop him from making a table that plays awesome, arguably perfect, but in a general sense, not all technicians will be able to pull that off... which is why it's good goal to have things become standardized in the future.
It would actually be cool if both Ernesto and Glen could try things the other guy's way, and to have some pros test out the tables. Not with a bunch of us AZ'ers breathing down their necks and judging them, but in some kind of a private venue, test lab type of situation. Diamond would be a great company to drive this as an R&D type of effort. I'm not trying to volunteer Diamond, nor would I expect them to have the resources available to fund this, but I'm just pondering as to what would be an ideal direction to go for the future of pool, if time and money weren't a consideration.
Perhaps there is an optimal cushion configuration that is yet to be discovered. Perhaps it is neiher the standard (K55) nor the Ernesto way (adapted K66), maybe it's something in between or something different altogether. In reality, without a table company driving it, table mechanics generally don't have the time to do this, I don't think, because they are just too busy and overworked, like Glen and Ernesto probably both are.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. These are my thoughts, and although not very well organized ,I just wanted to share them for whatever they're worth. I think it's easy for people to be misunderstood on a forum. I think both Ernesto and Glen are great technicians, two of the world's best, and they both seem like great guys who care about their customers. We should be lucky if all technicians take such pride in their work as these men do. I think Glen and Ernesto as well as Oscar are all assets to the game of pool.
Tap
TAP TAP TAP! Cuebacca
Just my one penny. Most pool table manufacturers do R&D, some probably more than others. I myself would hesitate if someone were going to make a modifiacation that was not easily correctable.
Cuebacca said:I have the utmost respect for both Glen and Ernesto. From what I have heard and seen, they are two of the elite class of their profession of pool table technicians. We should all be lucky if we have our tables graced by either of them.
I would not hesitate to have Ernesto do the rails on my Gold Crown, even after knowing of the alterations that are made to the sub-rail. That said, I would feel much better knowing in advance that this is the way it works, rather than having my stomach drop as part of my rail gets sliced off.
That said, if I knew in advance, I might ask him if he'd be willing to install K55 rubber on there without doing the subrail mods, especially if I had a very new table. I'm not sure if he is willing to do that by request or not.
I don't fault Ernesto for going about this in an unorthodox manner. In fact, he came up with a creative solution to a difficult problem. The problem being that pool went through this phase called, "available cushions suck ass". In other words, I have read that the Brunsick cushions back in the day were the very best when they were made in Chicago, USA, but at some point they started outsourcing them. When this happened, the recipe was botched resulting in cushions that went dead prematurely... crystalized, worthless.
Anyway, I imagine that in the days when Brunswick cushions were garbage, Ernesto discovered Artimus, K66, and said, if I can make this work, we have a shot at recushioning the best table in the world which was hands down the Gold Crown at that time. He made it work and was and is a hero for that. So, I would argue that Brunswick is actually to blame for any heat Ernesto has taken over his method.
Now-adays there are good cushions widely available in the K55 profile. Perhaps there were all along somewhere, but I'm pretty sure there was a large group of people who couldn't find them at the time, Ernesto included. So now the K55 are widely available, what should Ernesto do? I think he's just saying, why change what I know works, and what people want. I cannot fault him for that.
I also can't fault Glen, who is saying, you don't need to make these modifications to tables, which are very difficult to reverse later down the line. Dartman summarized this very well. So neither man is wrong really, and I hope there can be a meeting of the minds where both can understand each other.
I think Glen came out misinterpreted, people got defensive and then he got defensive in return. I've talked to Glen and he's a great guy. From what I've read, he is doing a lot in the industry to try to get things standardized, which will benefit everyone. There are a lot of guys who don't do things by the book, because I don't think there even IS a book. For Ernesto, this doesn't stop him from making a table that plays awesome, arguably perfect, but in a general sense, not all technicians will be able to pull that off... which is why it's good goal to have things become standardized in the future.
It would actually be cool if both Ernesto and Glen could try things the other guy's way, and to have some pros test out the tables. Not with a bunch of us AZ'ers breathing down their necks and judging them, but in some kind of a private venue, test lab type of situation. Diamond would be a great company to drive this as an R&D type of effort. I'm not trying to volunteer Diamond, nor would I expect them to have the resources available to fund this, but I'm just pondering as to what would be an ideal direction to go for the future of pool, if time and money weren't a consideration.
Perhaps there is an optimal cushion configuration that is yet to be discovered. Perhaps it is neiher the standard (K55) nor the Ernesto way (adapted K66), maybe it's something in between or something different altogether. In reality, without a table company driving it, table mechanics generally don't have the time to do this, I don't think, because they are just too busy and overworked, like Glen and Ernesto probably both are.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. These are my thoughts, and although not very well organized ,I just wanted to share them for whatever they're worth. I think it's easy for people to be misunderstood on a forum. I think both Ernesto and Glen are great technicians, two of the world's best, and they both seem like great guys who care about their customers. We should be lucky if all technicians take such pride in their work as these men do. I think Glen and Ernesto as well as Oscar are all assets to the game of pool.
TAP TAP TAP! Cuebacca
Just my one penny. Most pool table manufacturers do R&D, some probably more than others. I myself would hesitate if someone were going to make a modifiacation that was not easily correctable.
Perhaps someone could answer this:
Why not bring back the Monarch cushions ?? I do not understand why they simply cannot be made again back to original spec/configuration
I dont remember why we can tmake the rubber again other then tuff regulations on chemicals nowadays but you can find rubber in Europe that is very similar to monarch but very expensive. But it's out there and been there for alot of years ask a 3 cusion player they know about it but the average pool player doesnt. This is how I found out about it, when I change my cloth agian i will double check the name I belive it was Clay bear rubber k55 profile...
Craig
Why not bring back the Monarch cushions ?? I do not understand why they simply cannot be made again back to original spec/configuration
I dont remember why we can tmake the rubber again other then tuff regulations on chemicals nowadays but you can find rubber in Europe that is very similar to monarch but very expensive. But it's out there and been there for alot of years ask a 3 cusion player they know about it but the average pool player doesnt. This is how I found out about it, when I change my cloth agian i will double check the name I belive it was Clay bear rubber k55 profile...
Craig
lol - setting up tables PERFECT is not brain surgery Its not like there is a big learning curve involved... Just a few, very few compared to real trades, tools, a little knowledge, and mostly patience...
Glen looks like he does excellent work, as well as Ernesto... but get real, anybody who takes pride in their work and is mechanically inclined can become a top notch table mechanic in a short ammount of time...
The k66 on brunswick question is a serious one. It is wrong and any "professional" should only do that if it was requested... I'd have to put Glen on the top of the pile based on knowledge alone if this thread has any truth to it... All tradesmen take shortcuts and knowingly do things wrong from time to time... The best artisan NEVER does a job the wrong way... under any conditions... It is 100% unacceptable, IMO...
Knowledge of "Pocket Geometry" is the only thing seperating mechanics who take pride in their work. Good job keeping that one a secret, fellas Soon the undercutters will start showing up with an identicle product 
Glen, how can you charge $350 for your work? You are giving it away. You top mechanics should really get together and "price fix". The people who use you are paying for "I had so and so do my table". They will pay alot more just to name drop. You should cash in on it... I would...
Its not like there is a big learning curve involved... Just a few, very few compared to real trades, tools, a little knowledge, and mostly patience...Glen looks like he does excellent work, as well as Ernesto... but get real, anybody who takes pride in their work and is mechanically inclined can become a top notch table mechanic in a short ammount of time...
The k66 on brunswick question is a serious one. It is wrong and any "professional" should only do that if it was requested... I'd have to put Glen on the top of the pile based on knowledge alone if this thread has any truth to it... All tradesmen take shortcuts and knowingly do things wrong from time to time... The best artisan NEVER does a job the wrong way... under any conditions... It is 100% unacceptable, IMO...
Knowledge of "Pocket Geometry" is the only thing seperating mechanics who take pride in their work. Good job keeping that one a secret, fellas
Soon the undercutters will start showing up with an identicle product Glen, how can you charge $350 for your work? You are giving it away. You top mechanics should really get together and "price fix". The people who use you are paying for "I had so and so do my table". They will pay alot more just to name drop. You should cash in on it... I would...
Nowadays there are good cushions widely available in the K55 profile.
What brands?
What brands?
Cuebacca said:
I could provide the test lab, Glen has seen it, Greg Sullivan and Jay Helfert has seen the test lab, I know a couple of pro's and other accomplished players who could provide the input.
I will do my part as I have the venue, no its not a commercial spot. I've done my part you convenience the other guys to do theirs....MY OFFER STANDS I WILL PARTICIPATATE AT MY EXPENSE. Fatboy dosent joke around. I aint playing
Real trade? Thanks.
Championship - http://www.champbilliards.com/product_details_cushions.asp?prod_id=17JoeyInCali said:
The K55, Tour Edition, is currently being used by at least one manufacturer: Connelly on their Ultimate rails.
Glen
I have had the pleasure to spend the last couple days with Glen and let me tell you what! He is VERY knowledgable and on top of the that a very nice guy! He is setting up my Gold Crown IV as we speak. I have been waiting a while but I can tell it will be WELL worth the wait.
I have had the pleasure to spend the last couple days with Glen and let me tell you what! He is VERY knowledgable and on top of the that a very nice guy! He is setting up my Gold Crown IV as we speak. I have been waiting a while but I can tell it will be WELL worth the wait.
I understand the point that some are making about changing the sub rails. I personally don't have an issue with it. The new Artemis rubber on my table should last ....what...about 30 or 40 years??? I'll be dead by the time it needs to be changed again...
Russ.....
Russ.....
Neil said:
OK but since this thread started I have received pm's criticizing some so called Table Mechanics and how their worked had to be redone. But I dont think this thread, lauding Ernesto's work, should be bringing up that.. Nor do I think its fitting for one colleague to criticize another in a public forume. They in turn are setting themselves up for criticism which might not be fair. It gets into finger pointing contest. If you dont agree with Ernesto, who is unarguably a Master at his work, then take it up with him personally.
poolhustler said:I understand the point that some are making about changing the sub rails. I personally don't have an issue with it. The new Artemis rubber on my table should last ....what...about 30 or 40 years??? I'll be dead by the time it needs to be changed again...
Russ.....
No doubt. I may have misheard him, but I believe Ernesto has been using the same rubber on one of his home tables for DECADES and it still plays perfectly. The key word there was decades in case someone missed it.
Also, do you have a slightly easier time cueing a cueball frozen to a cushion on Ernesto's tables? I'm not sure about this but think it might be true. This could be another benefit of his tried, tested, and approved technique.