Ethics Question

metal5d

Pool Player
Silver Member
I am just curious to see what others would do in this situation. You are playing your bitter rivals in the league. This is the team that always wins the league and keeps your team in second place. You try a shot and no ball hits a rail. Your opponent was watching the shot and says nothing about a foul. Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?
 
Responsibility..... his. But its not honest if you dont say something. You will feel better about yourself if you are honest about the game to him and to yourself. If he runs out.... thats the natural course of the game.
Chuck
 
Don't the league rules state opponent calls?

If the rules state you call by all means call. However if the rules state the opponent calls then go with common practice. I despise some of the things that are common practice however I have realized that playing to a higher set of ethics is actually giving the person with lesser ethics a spot. More and more I am becoming a "when in Rome" kind of guy.

Hu


metal5d said:
I am just curious to see what others would do in this situation. You are playing your bitter rivals in the league. This is the team that always wins the league and keeps your team in second place. You try a shot and no ball hits a rail. Your opponent was watching the shot and says nothing about a foul. Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?
 
It's there responsability not yours. In one of Byrne's books he talks about how many games you could have won if you would have payed attention. Not ethical but it's a fifty fifty deal. I dont think you would see many world class road players telling there opponent, hey buddy I fouled, you have ball in hand so runout and take my money.
 
Hold yourself to a higher standard. If this team is constantly beating your team, perhaps you guys need to practice more and not look for excuses to bend the rules. There are always excuses available if you're weak enough to use them. Would you honestly accept this behavior from your opponent? You shouldn't expect it from yourself either.:)
 
metal5d said:
I am just curious to see what others would do in this situation. You are playing your bitter rivals in the league. This is the team that always wins the league and keeps your team in second place. You try a shot and no ball hits a rail. Your opponent was watching the shot and says nothing about a foul. Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?

I'm not above being a total a$$hole, but I have never had the inkling to not a call a foul on myself if I thought I fouled. By the same token, I'll defend myself the best I can if I think I didn't think I did.

Life is too short to not call a foul on yourself.

Fred
 
I'm in a league where people openly talk about dumping and I'll admit I've been tempted but I haven't done it. If it was me I would call the foul regardless what others do.
 
Under BCA rules, if a player commits a foul he must relinquish his turn at the table. In the absence of a referee, you're expected to call a foul on yourself when it occurs.
 
sicbinature said:
It's there responsability not yours. In one of Byrne's books he talks about how many games you could have won if you would have payed attention. Not ethical but it's a fifty fifty deal. I dont think you would see many world class road players telling there opponent, hey buddy I fouled, you have ball in hand so runout and take my money.[/QUOTE]


I don't think you would see many road players that won't rob you blind either, whats the point.:confused:

When I foul I immediately pick up the cue ball and place it to an open area on the table. I may even say F#@K as I do it but I still do it. No matter what the consequence is. Now if the guy is a jackass and I know 100% for sure he is a lowlife than if I didn't tell him I would loose no sleep over it.
 
metal5d said:
I am just curious to see what others would do in this situation. You are playing your bitter rivals in the league. This is the team that always wins the league and keeps your team in second place. You try a shot and no ball hits a rail. Your opponent was watching the shot and says nothing about a foul. Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?
You should always call a foul on yourself even if no one else saw. In pool, as in life, we are faced with decisions all the time, making the right one shouldn't be a debate. You might win one more game or one more set or even a whole tournament, but in the end, you're a product of your actions.

Besides, defining yourself by how many pool games you win is not the way life is supposed to be ;) That's what I think anyway.

-td
 
I play league, and I'll tell you this; It totally, 100% depends on what team it is we are playing. I don't have to go into details, but some teams are high on sportsmanship, some are far from it. But that's just me.
 
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TX Poolnut said:
Hold yourself to a higher standard. If this team is constantly beating your team, perhaps you guys need to practice more and not look for excuses to bend the rules. There are always excuses available if you're weak enough to use them. Would you honestly accept this behavior from your opponent? You shouldn't expect it from yourself either.:)

tap tap tap

couldnt have said it better myself.
 
I always call my own fouls, i dont feel like cheating like that. Its just low.
 
td873 said:
You should always call a foul on yourself even if no one else saw. In pool, as in life, we are faced with decisions all the time, making the right one shouldn't be a debate. You might win one more game or one more set or even a whole tournament, but in the end, you're a product of your actions.

Besides, defining yourself by how many pool games you win is not the way life is supposed to be ;) That's what I think anyway.

-td

Defining yourself by how many pool games you win by cheating is not the way, either. :D If I despised my opponent more than I would despise myself for cheating, I'd keep my mouth shut and let him watch for fouls. But when I have nothing against the other guy, I call fouls on myself. There's friendly competition, and then there's war. All's fair in the latter.
 
Dhalaka,
I hate these ethics questions...LOL, because I will go either way depending on the situation. I like the way you resolve this one. In the team situation my guy better be nice and he better pay attention. Here's a twist; my opponent has relinquished the table but I wasn't paying attention and I just assume I have to play them as they lay but I really have ball in hand. Do you as one of the opponents team members tell me I have BIH? Remember there is a 'no coaching rule'....
 
Dhakala said:
Defining yourself by how many pool games you win by cheating is not the way, either. :D If I despised my opponent more than I would despise myself for cheating, I'd keep my mouth shut and let him watch for fouls. But when I have nothing against the other guy, I call fouls on myself. There's friendly competition, and then there's war. All's fair in the latter.



Said perfectly! I will always call my own fouls in games against friends or just messing around.
 
metal5d said:
Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?


metal-man,
Call it on yourself, you'll sleep better, people will respect you (at least, people who matter will respect you), and it's the right thing to do.

If you want to be like Karen Corr or Earl Strickland, then win at any cost because it's all about the money. Your choice. As Jim Rome always says, "if you're not cheating, you're not really trying."
 
metal5d said:
I am just curious to see what others would do in this situation. You are playing your bitter rivals in the league. This is the team that always wins the league and keeps your team in second place. You try a shot and no ball hits a rail. Your opponent was watching the shot and says nothing about a foul. Do you call the foul on yourself (knowing that he will run out with ball-in-hand) or do you say nothing and let him take the hard shot that is left on the table? Who's responsibility is it to call the foul?
Here's the BCA rule on fouls:
5.7 FOULS
When a player commits a foul, he must relinquish his run at the table and no balls pocketed on the foul shot are re-spotted (exception: if a pocketed ball is the 9-ball, it is re-spotted). The incoming player is awarded ball in hand; prior to his first shot he may place the cue ball anywhere on the table. If a player commits several fouls on one shot, they are counted as only one foul.

If you're an ethical person and you know that you just committed a foul, then do the honorable thing and call the foul on yourself. If you knowingly do anything less, then you've just cheated.
 
I'd like to expand on my last comment. If you know that your opponent cheats, then you have no choice but to watch him closely so that if he fouls, you can call him on it.

Yesterday, I was playing straight pool with a pretty good straight pool player. Two times while he was shooting, I thought I saw him accidentally nudge a neighboring ball with his cue. Both times I asked him did you just move a ball with your cue and he denied it. Since we were playing for fun I let it go. The lesson for me was to stand a little closer to the table when he is shooting a very difficult shot so that I can ensure that a foul wasn't committed. Interestingly, on the three other times when I stood closer to watch his shot, he missed. :) And no, I wasn't sharking him.
 
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