Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

Judd Trump vs Kyren Wilson in the U k championship, is providing a chance to study their eye patterns.
So far I am getting the camera angles but not the resolution required to be sure. I expect both to be object ball last but there's always a chance that one or both have modified the eye pattern. An interesting match regardless. Matchroom Live is where it's happening now.
 
Due to a lack of.....?
Natural vs Hard work and discipline:
Oops should be in the Preacher thread. Shrug 🤷‍♂️
Oh gosh the interval must be over gotta go.
 
12 Years! 🥂 Happy new year.
Whew, in review. How the evidence has mounted.
The camera work provides some good looks at the eyes of the Class of 92. Quite a clash and a good chance to observe a lot, by watching. (Gotta love Yogi).
 
To complete the class of 92......
Ronnie is up now. I haven't seen this one yet but the camera work in the first is encouraging and I anticipate a good chance to observe..
 
ELEVEN yrs and counting. Give it rest bro. We got it, YEARS ago, that you like cb last. Great, just great. Still doesn't change the fact that very few shoot this way, not even the Rocket.
 
11 years of objections uninterrupted by a rational and well reasoned response.
11 years 349 days 8 hours........🤷‍♂️
"Just the facts mam " Wasn't that Joe Friday's Dragnet favorite line?
 
I'm sure I have said it before in this endless thread but after becoming proficient at object ball last and using it almost exclusively for years I decided to try cue ball last. I used cue ball last for over 200 hours. At the end of that weeks long test I was playing no better or no worse looking at the cue ball last. Both work, neither perfect on long enough shots, most, when you can't focus on cue ball, object ball, and pocket, all at the same time.

Some great players have used cue ball last. Many great players use object ball last. Many more said they did but video showed their eyes shifting back to the cue ball during the final stroke.

I usually tack this off topic story on as an example of what people say and what they do. I was at a major invitational benchrest shoot. The best from all over the nation, a smattering of international shooters. Benchrest shooters use a free recoil technique. Without touching any other part of the rifle carefully set up on the bags, they touch the one to two ounce trigger only and catch the rifle with their shoulder after the bullet has left the barrel. At the time maybe 95% of benchrest shooters used this technique, or so they said!

I took a walk behind the firing line during a relay I wasn't shooting in. Of the forty-five or more shooters less than five were actually shooting free recoil. The rest were touching the stock to their shoulder with a feather light touch or had their shooting hand lightly touching the rifle. I went back to my reloading bench and glued a tiny piece of 3/4" thick very soft foam rubber to my butt plate so I could feel when I was 3/4" behind my rifle. Several people commented on my recoil pad, I explained that I needed it to protect my shoulder!

What people say they do and what they do aren't always the same. Watching the best in the world, more than a few had their eyes back to the cue ball before they hit it including many of the "object ball last" pro's. I found this during another heated thread about what to look at last ten years or more ago so my info is a bit dated but probably as true now as then.

There is no ideal eye pattern, there is no ideal stroke. The truth is a human body is a piss poor design to play pool with. I think an octopus has a far better body design to play pool with but none have shown any interest in learning, demonstrating their high intelligence also!(grin)

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
in this endless thread
Click to expand...
Hard not to be redundant, again. 😉
I have endeavored to put the facts out with an indifference to the results.
I have my personal experience that's covered a lot of bar table competition. Today I am seeing the cue tip cueball interaction as clearly as ever. Of course my earliest achievement was object ball last.
I can more precisely control the white rock when I monitor that collision. My table tennis experience makes following whitey a breeze. The collision with the object ball is secondary. All the calculations gotta be done to get the vector Victor along with velocity and don't forget rotation. Simple math slide rule. 🤷‍♂️
 
Island Drive said:
Did any of Mosconi's peers look at the cue ball last?
Click to expand...
Willie Hoppe would be my best guess at a "peer".
I consider his book required reading.
20250105_125713.jpg
 
I hadn't played in at least 25 years and at 71 years old and looking at the CB or OB with old eyes won't make me a star. My practice routine concentrates on stance and stroke. The painters tape is to prevent marks on the shaft when shooting one handed making both balls in the far corner. The other routine is 2-handed stunning the CB, drawing the CB or following thru making both. For shits and giggles I'll take 3-4 waggles, close my eyes,take another 3-4 waggles and stunning the OB into the corner. If you can't line up and shoot straight eyes aren't going to help
 

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The first picture is page 5
FUNDAMENTALS - THE KEYNOTE
The second picture is page 25 so lots of the 7 fundamentals come first. The book is definitely required reading. 🤷‍♂️
 
It simply depends on which region of mental spatial awareness you feel more comfortable with.

Do you feel more comfortable with the object ball and resulting path in your head and the cue ball in your eyes?

Do you feel more comfortable with the exact tip contact point on the cue ball in your head and the object ball in your eyes?

Do you feel more comfortable to gaze at both and accept both as a little blurry?

Let the answer depend on the above.
 
nataddrho said:
Do you feel more comfortable with the exact tip contact point on the cue ball in your head and the object ball in your eyes?
Click to expand...
It's more about precision than comfort. The smallest variation in the variables involved can lead to a vortex in the far heavy insights. I insights are aimed at the white.
 
Here's why obj. ball last.
Example high speed force follow shot.
If your not looking at the obj ball last, how are you going to know how much, or how little cb squirt occurred?
Did you hit it in pocket left of center, right of center or dead center?
If I'm looking at the cue ball last, I never got to see this.
 
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